Native American Prophecy

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  • Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    I'm talking about the balance/perfection of reality/nature as it stands with self-evidence.

    You are apparently comparing Hopi prophecy wiht neuroscience.

    You ignore science, which is an objective study, and you cleave to speculation. You pick and choose what you want to believe in. What you call self-evident is a delusion.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You ignore science, which is an objective study, and you cleave to speculation. You pick and choose what you want to believe in. What you call self-evident is a delusion.
    Here is the essence of what you quoted from me in your second last message. These are the kinds of statements I refer to as self evident:

    1) Using objective study, we continue to find deeper and deeper levels of "reasons" and understanding in and of nature.

    2) Nature operates "as is" no matter how we each subjectively judge it.

    If you think you can, please clarify what about these statements or point of view is "delusional".


    I have always stood behind science.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Here is the essence of what you quoted from me in your second last message. These are the kinds of statements I refer to as self evident:

    1) Using objective study, we continue to find deeper and deeper levels of "reasons" and understanding in and of nature.

    2) Nature operates "as is" no matter how we each subjectively judge it.

    If you think you can, please clarify what about these statements or point of view is "delusional".


    I have always stood behind science.

    You are saying this on a thread titled "Native American Prophecy" there is zero objectivity to any prophecy. It is all speculation.

    You talk about objectivity, yet, you start all these threads that are the furthest from objectivity. You were on a Kabbalah trip before this. None of this stuff is scientific and is in direct conflict with scientific research.

    You are spending your time chasing these dreams and ignoring the objectivity available at your fingertips. You don't want to accept reality, so you are buying up all this crap and trying to pass it off as objective research.

    When you say self-evident, you usually mean what you determine to be true introspectively and intuitively, not objective research. That is the delusion, you know that introspection and intuition are hugely flawed perspectives, but they make you feel good, so you eat it up.

    Like a virus you spread this garbage all over the place. Three threads in one day about Hopi prophecy. The terms are defined worse than an elementary level, the research behind it is non-existent and there is not a shred of truth in any of it.

    Irrationally held truths may be more harmful than reasoned errors.
    - Thomas H. Huxley

    If you want objectivity, try some of this Paul Churchland
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You are saying this on a thread titled "Native American Prophecy" there is zero objectivity to any prophecy. It is all speculation.
    Let's talk about the speculation, wherein you feel entitled to misconstrue my points any way you like, when you are unable to dispute them reputably. When you are willing to have a reasonable discussion, the points stand ready to be debated. I have no interest in personal attacks and emotional arguments.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Let's talk about the speculation, wherein you feel entitled to misconstrue my points any way you like, when you are unable to dispute them reputably. When you are willing to have a reasonable discussion, the points stand ready to be debated. I have no interest in personal attacks and emotional arguments.

    What points?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 2,222
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Nature is kicking my ass right now and if it weren't for doctors and pharmaceuticals I'm not sure I'd get any better. Ever vomited up blood before?

    I've been running a fever for several days, when the doctor took my temperature she questioned the thermometer's read-out, I didn't see it, but that can't be good, I'm being sent in for a blood test.

    I don't drive a car and I respect my environment. I don't litter and I recycle. I do everything I can to maintain your so-called balance and voila, I get really sick. I'm sure mentally retarded people did some nasty stuff in a past life as well. Wishful thinking. Nature is not a conscious force, it doesn't have a balance, it's a survival of the fittest scheme.

    vomiting blood?? i've heard about somethings like that, but never came close to this matter myself. please dude get better :) i like your intelligent posts, so i wish for you to get well soon :)
  • Posts: 6,038
    More on the Native prophecy:

    "There is a remarkable difference between Western prophecies and those of native peoples. When Western prophets see into the future they envision Armageddon. The end of the world. When native prophets look down that same path they see the completion of a great cycle. A change of worlds.

    The reason for these vastly different views is found in the way time is experienced. In the West time is history. There is a past, a present, and a future; a beginning, a middle, and an end. Like a stick. Native peoples experience time as a cycle. There are four stages, such as the seasons: spring, summer, autumn, and winter. Like a hoop. Each stage is a preparation for the next. At the center of the hoop is a still timelessness; the eternal present around which the cycles revolve. The visions of native prophets occur at that center point from where the cycles of change can be seen. There is no end."
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 6,038
    Hopi prophecy:

    "The United States will be destroyed, land and people, by atomic bombs and radioactivity. Only the Hopi and their homeland will be preserved as an oasis to which refugees will flee. Bomb shelters are a fallacy. It is only materialistic people who seek to make shelters. Those who are at peace in their hearts already are in the great shelter of life. There is no shelter for evil. Those who take no part in the making of world division by ideology are ready to resume life in another world, be they of the Black, White, Red, or Yellow race. They are all one, brothers. ...


    The prophecies presented here of the destruction of the world by atomic bombs...need not be interpreted literally. Atomic bombs can devastate a country without ever being used. The arms race was disastrous financially both to the Russia and the United States; and the failure of the nuclear reactors can provide enough destructive radioactivity to satisfy any prophecy...."

    http://www.texfiles.com/features/prophecies.htm

    and:

    "Native traditions are rooted in magic, myth and metaphor; Western traditions, in science, history and fact. For the first time in human history both are accessible. In a very real sense these differing world views are like the two hemispheres of the brain: the intuitive right and the reasoning left. The synergistic potential of incorporating native and Western thought is an exciting and difficult prospect. But in a world that is long on problems and short on alternatives, this notion should be considered."
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 10,560
    JREF will give them $1,000,000 if they can prove any magic. They can use the money to upgrade their pottery and agriculture and build new fortresses to keep out the spanish.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 10,560
    In the 1800's the Hopi were almost wiped out completley by a wave of smallpox, the "White" man was called in to save their ass with all his fanciful and imbalanced medicines.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 2,787
    Ahnimus wrote:
    In the 1800's the Hopi were almost wiped out completley by a wave of smallpox, the "White" man was called in to save their ass with all his fanciful and imbalanced medicines.

    True, but the smallpox was introduced by "white man". No white man, no smallpox.

    It's kind of like Bush launching a war on Iraq and declaring we were liberating them at the same time. Now that's some fucked up logic.
  • Posts: 10,560
    gabers wrote:
    True, but the smallpox was introduced by "white man". No white man, no smallpox.

    It's kind of like Bush launching a war on Iraq and declaring we were liberating them at the same time. Now that's some fucked up logic.

    White man didn't invent smallpox. The hopi were eventually going to be introduced to it anyway. Do you think they could have kept their little spot shielded from the world forever?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 6,038
    gabers wrote:
    True, but the smallpox was introduced by "white man". No white man, no smallpox.

    It's kind of like Bush launching a war on Iraq and declaring we were liberating them at the same time. Now that's some fucked up logic.
    I agree with you about the logic. ;)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 6,097
    jesus christ are you people serious? give me a break. its just an old Native American stereotype spouting bullshit for six minutes. Was he drunk or high? i couldn't tell.

    Sounds like an audition for his next movie role where he plays wise old indian medicine man # 4553.

    the world would be perfect without those damn crackas!
  • Posts: 5,515
    MrSmith wrote:
    jesus christ are you people serious? give me a break. its just an old Native American stereotype spouting bullshit for six minutes. Was he drunk or high? i couldn't tell.

    Sounds like an audition for his next movie role where he plays wise old indian medicine man # 4553.

    the world would be perfect without those damn crackas!

    You have a decidedly limited view of humanity.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Posts: 6,038
    gue_barium wrote:
    You have a decidedly limited view of humanity.
    And of Native Americans!
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 6,097
    you didnt get it.

    i'm not the one with the limited view of natives (partially being that i'm a quarter myself). but its people like him and hollywood that perpetuate the stereotype of the wise old indian mystic who talks about vision quests and spirits and how peaceful and naturefriendly americans were before the europeans. i'm so fucking sick of that shit. that video made me nauseous.
  • Posts: 6,038
    MrSmith wrote:
    you didnt get it.

    i'm not the one with the limited view of natives (partially being that i'm a quarter myself). but its people like him and hollywood that perpetuate the stereotype of the wise old indian mystic who talks about vision quests and how peaceful and naturefriendly americans were before the europeans. i'm so fucking sick of that shit. that video made me nauseous.
    I would love to get your perspective. Can you help me out, here?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 10,560
    MrSmith wrote:
    you didnt get it.

    i'm not the one with the limited view of natives (partially being that i'm a quarter myself). but its people like him and hollywood that perpetuate the stereotype of the wise old indian mystic who talks about vision quests and spirits and how peaceful and naturefriendly americans were before the europeans. i'm so fucking sick of that shit. that video made me nauseous.

    I'm 1/32 native :)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 6,097
    angelica wrote:
    I would love to get your perspective. Can you help me out, here?


    ah nevermind. I'm probably overreacting anyway. maybe one too many Tonto jokes in high school...

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