Native American Prophecy

angelica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7cylfQtkDg

gue_barium

Very nice.
Notice though, he didn't speak much on prophecy.

He simply spoke from wisdom.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

That was a sobering perspective. Thanks for posting.

angelica

I agree, gue, it is about wisdom. As for the prophecy aspect, I am going by the You Tube title, which is "Indigenous Native American Prophecy".

"We were told that we would see America come and go. And in a sense America is dying..from within. Because they forgot the instructions for how to live on earth."

The prediction is in general that we are entering a time of great change and upheaval.

It's similar to the Mayan Calendar predictions where we are entering a new period, and that we are facing the end of what we've been doing for so long. Much will fall away. And it's our natural evolution.

We are a society that revolves around a man-made money-oriented power and dominance focus. We've lost touch with "the instructions for how to live on earth".

angelica

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That was a sobering perspective. Thanks for posting.

You are very welcome, Roland. And I thank you for your own perspective.

rigneyclan

The Elder who is speaking is Floyd Redcrow Westerman. He's been in many films, such as Dances With Wolves. I've met him a few times, him and my mom are pretty good friends.

bonaneas

All very moving and kitschy to the extreme, and though I do detest modern America (and the Western Capitalist way in general) and it's, as you said above, "man-made money-oriented power and dominance focus," it's war-mongering and self-centred ways etc etc, I can't help feeling the itch to ask Mr Westerman about what happened to the Native Americans who "forgot the instructions for how to live on earth," you know, the ones who, pre-Columbus, pre-"white man" and his diseases and his guns and his system of systematic violence, you know, the natives who wiped out 80% of North America's large mammals? Weren't very close to the earth, or acting as Guardians of it then, were they?

Byrnzie

bonaneas wrote:

All very moving and kitschy to the extreme, and though I do detest modern America (and the Western Capitalist way in general) and it's, as you said above, "man-made money-oriented power and dominance focus," it's war-mongering and self-centred ways etc etc, I can't help feeling the itch to ask Mr Westerman about what happened to the Native Americans who "forgot the instructions for how to live on earth," you know, the ones who, pre-Columbus, pre-"white man" and his diseases and his guns and his system of systematic violence, you know, the natives who wiped out 80% of North America's large mammals? Weren't very close to the earth, or acting as Guardians of it then, were they?

What large mammals are we talking about here?

bonaneas

Byrnzie wrote:

What large mammals are we talking about here?

Rhinos, horses, elephants, camels, llamas, tigers etc etc, not to mention the species that are now completely extinct (giant kangaroos, giant flightless birds, dire wolf, tapir, camel, and saber-toothed cat, mammoths, mastodons, gomphotheres (tropical mastodons), bear sized beavers, several species of ground sloths, several species of camelids and equids, glyptodons, et al)

Before the natives got there, North America was as rich in mammals and fauna as Africa is now (well, a hundred years ago)

Dr. Paul Martin of Univ of Arizona (author of Twilight of the Mammals) and Jared Diamond (The Third Chimpanzee), Dr Gavin Prideaux and Tim Flannery are just some of the many scientists (anthropological and paleontological) to have written about the pre-columbus post ice-age extinctions. They have also found the same happened in Australia/NZ, where up to 90% of native large mammals were hunted to extinction by the "native" humans.

genie

bonaneas wrote:

Rhinos, horses, elephants, camels, llamas, tigers etc etc, not to mention the species that are now completely extinct (giant kangaroos, giant flightless birds, dire wolf, tapir, camel, and saber-toothed cat, mammoths, mastodons, gomphotheres (tropical mastodons), bear sized beavers, several species of ground sloths, several species of camelids and equids, glyptodons, et al)

Before the natives got there, North America was as rich in mammals and fauna as Africa is now (well, a hundred years ago)

Dr. Paul Martin of Univ of Arizona (author of Twilight of the Mammals) and Jared Diamond (The Third Chimpanzee), Dr Gavin Prideaux and Tim Flannery are just some of the many scientists (anthropological and paleontological) to have written about the pre-columbus post ice-age extinctions. They have also found the same happened in Australia/NZ, where up to 90% of native large mammals were hunted to extinction by the "native" humans.

amazing views in that video!!

I like your argument. I think people are generally distructive, sometimes they might not even be aware of this. At the end of the day we are all animals and we fight for survival, and the strongest or the smartest one's win.

i personally don't like the idea of this, i'd like to think there is more to life.

macgyver06

genie wrote:

amazing views in that video!!

I like your argument. I think people are generally distructive, sometimes they might not even be aware of this. At the end of the day we are all animals and we fight for survival, and the strongest or the smartest one's win.

i personally don't like the idea of this, i'd like to think there is more to life.

''let me tell you something...there isn't.'' Kramer

genie

macgyver06 wrote:

''let me tell you something...there isn't.'' Kramer

please explain yourself

Ahnimus

This video strikes me as anti-white non-sense.

Microbes would have eventually wiped out all of the human race without the industrial revolution and the rise of pharmaceuticals.

I always hear this nonsense about nature being in balance, all except humans who destroy their habitats. That's complete bullshit, words spoken by those who don't know a damn thing. "Nature" would have kicked our species ass out of here a long time ago. Meanwhile parasites like the Lancet fluke would still be around throwing off nature's precious "balance".

This is all would-have-been, should-have-been, could-have-been, bullshit. Wishful thinking.

macgyver06

genie wrote:

please explain yourself

its a quote from seinfeld...when george and jerry are pondering there is more to there silly lives.

gue_barium

Ahnimus wrote:

This video strikes me as anti-white non-sense.

Microbes would have eventually wiped out all of the human race without the industrial revolution and the rise of pharmaceuticals.

I always hear this nonsense about nature being in balance, all except humans who destroy their habitats. That's complete bullshit, words spoken by those who don't know a damn thing. "Nature" would have kicked our species ass out of here a long time ago. Meanwhile parasites like the Lancet fluke would still be around throwing off nature's precious "balance".

This is all would-have-been, should-have-been, could-have-been, bullshit. Wishful thinking.

That's an interesting take. I don't buy it.
I think the key here to what he is saying has everything to do with, not the indigenous people, or ancient indigenous peoples, but of those who are learned in the knowledge of a respectful human place in the scheme of nature.

Ahnimus

gue_barium wrote:

That's an interesting take. I don't buy it.
I think the key here to what he is saying has everything to do with, not the indigenous people, or ancient indigenous peoples, but of those who are learned in the knowledge of a respectful human place in the scheme of nature.

Nature is kicking my ass right now and if it weren't for doctors and pharmaceuticals I'm not sure I'd get any better. Ever vomited up blood before?

I've been running a fever for several days, when the doctor took my temperature she questioned the thermometer's read-out, I didn't see it, but that can't be good, I'm being sent in for a blood test.

I don't drive a car and I respect my environment. I don't litter and I recycle. I do everything I can to maintain your so-called balance and voila, I get really sick. I'm sure mentally retarded people did some nasty stuff in a past life as well. Wishful thinking. Nature is not a conscious force, it doesn't have a balance, it's a survival of the fittest scheme.

gue_barium

Ahnimus wrote:

Nature is kicking my ass right now and if it weren't for doctors and pharmaceuticals I'm not sure I'd get any better. Ever vomited up blood before?

I've been running a fever for several days, when the doctor took my temperature she questioned the thermometer's read-out, I didn't see it, but that can't be good, I'm being sent in for a blood test.

I don't drive a car and I respect my environment. I don't litter and I recycle. I do everything I can to maintain your so-called balance and voila, I get really sick. I'm sure mentally retarded people did some nasty stuff in a past life as well. Wishful thinking. Nature is not a conscious force, it doesn't have a balance, it's a survival of the fittest scheme.

So, what's wrong with that?
Survival of the fittest is part of it, but how do you know that?

gue_barium

Ahnimus.

Get well.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Nature is not a conscious force, it doesn't have a balance, it's a survival of the fittest scheme.

Nature continues on with exacting purposes and reasons that we objectively uncover to greater and deeper degrees, through study, all the time. And we will continue to uncover more and more awareness of these "reasons" all the time. Nature does what it does, no matter whether we personally like it or not. Everything: illness, death, destruction, etc. It's all a part of the big picture of evolution and of nature.

To me, that the natural laws we exist within perfectly coincide with and interact with one another at all times shows the amazing natural synthesis of all of nature and of life.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Nature continues on with exacting purposes and reasons that we objectively uncover to greater and deeper degrees, through study, all the time. And we will continue to uncover more and more awareness of these "reasons" all the time. Nature does what it does, no matter whether we personally like it or not. Everything: illness, death, destruction, etc. It's all a part of the big picture of evolution and of nature.

To me, that the natural laws we exist within perfectly coincide with and interact with one another at all times shows the amazing natural synthesis of all of nature and of life.

And you think Hopi Prophecy is an objective study, but neuroscience is not?

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

And you think Hopi Prophecy is an objective study, but neuroscience is not?

I'm talking about the balance/perfection of reality/nature as it stands with self-evidence.

You are apparently comparing Hopi prophecy wiht neuroscience.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

I'm talking about the balance/perfection of reality/nature as it stands with self-evidence.

You are apparently comparing Hopi prophecy wiht neuroscience.

You ignore science, which is an objective study, and you cleave to speculation. You pick and choose what you want to believe in. What you call self-evident is a delusion.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

You ignore science, which is an objective study, and you cleave to speculation. You pick and choose what you want to believe in. What you call self-evident is a delusion.

Here is the essence of what you quoted from me in your second last message. These are the kinds of statements I refer to as self evident:

1) Using objective study, we continue to find deeper and deeper levels of "reasons" and understanding in and of nature.

2) Nature operates "as is" no matter how we each subjectively judge it.

If you think you can, please clarify what about these statements or point of view is "delusional".


I have always stood behind science.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Here is the essence of what you quoted from me in your second last message. These are the kinds of statements I refer to as self evident:

1) Using objective study, we continue to find deeper and deeper levels of "reasons" and understanding in and of nature.

2) Nature operates "as is" no matter how we each subjectively judge it.

If you think you can, please clarify what about these statements or point of view is "delusional".


I have always stood behind science.

You are saying this on a thread titled "Native American Prophecy" there is zero objectivity to any prophecy. It is all speculation.

You talk about objectivity, yet, you start all these threads that are the furthest from objectivity. You were on a Kabbalah trip before this. None of this stuff is scientific and is in direct conflict with scientific research.

You are spending your time chasing these dreams and ignoring the objectivity available at your fingertips. You don't want to accept reality, so you are buying up all this crap and trying to pass it off as objective research.

When you say self-evident, you usually mean what you determine to be true introspectively and intuitively, not objective research. That is the delusion, you know that introspection and intuition are hugely flawed perspectives, but they make you feel good, so you eat it up.

Like a virus you spread this garbage all over the place. Three threads in one day about Hopi prophecy. The terms are defined worse than an elementary level, the research behind it is non-existent and there is not a shred of truth in any of it.

Irrationally held truths may be more harmful than reasoned errors.
- Thomas H. Huxley

If you want objectivity, try some of this Paul Churchland

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

You are saying this on a thread titled "Native American Prophecy" there is zero objectivity to any prophecy. It is all speculation.

Let's talk about the speculation, wherein you feel entitled to misconstrue my points any way you like, when you are unable to dispute them reputably. When you are willing to have a reasonable discussion, the points stand ready to be debated. I have no interest in personal attacks and emotional arguments.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Let's talk about the speculation, wherein you feel entitled to misconstrue my points any way you like, when you are unable to dispute them reputably. When you are willing to have a reasonable discussion, the points stand ready to be debated. I have no interest in personal attacks and emotional arguments.

What points?

genie

Ahnimus wrote:

Nature is kicking my ass right now and if it weren't for doctors and pharmaceuticals I'm not sure I'd get any better. Ever vomited up blood before?

I've been running a fever for several days, when the doctor took my temperature she questioned the thermometer's read-out, I didn't see it, but that can't be good, I'm being sent in for a blood test.

I don't drive a car and I respect my environment. I don't litter and I recycle. I do everything I can to maintain your so-called balance and voila, I get really sick. I'm sure mentally retarded people did some nasty stuff in a past life as well. Wishful thinking. Nature is not a conscious force, it doesn't have a balance, it's a survival of the fittest scheme.

vomiting blood?? i've heard about somethings like that, but never came close to this matter myself. please dude get better i like your intelligent posts, so i wish for you to get well soon

angelica

More on the Native prophecy:

"There is a remarkable difference between Western prophecies and those of native peoples. When Western prophets see into the future they envision Armageddon. The end of the world. When native prophets look down that same path they see the completion of a great cycle. A change of worlds.

The reason for these vastly different views is found in the way time is experienced. In the West time is history. There is a past, a present, and a future; a beginning, a middle, and an end. Like a stick. Native peoples experience time as a cycle. There are four stages, such as the seasons: spring, summer, autumn, and winter. Like a hoop. Each stage is a preparation for the next. At the center of the hoop is a still timelessness; the eternal present around which the cycles revolve. The visions of native prophets occur at that center point from where the cycles of change can be seen. There is no end."

angelica

Hopi prophecy:

"The United States will be destroyed, land and people, by atomic bombs and radioactivity. Only the Hopi and their homeland will be preserved as an oasis to which refugees will flee. Bomb shelters are a fallacy. It is only materialistic people who seek to make shelters. Those who are at peace in their hearts already are in the great shelter of life. There is no shelter for evil. Those who take no part in the making of world division by ideology are ready to resume life in another world, be they of the Black, White, Red, or Yellow race. They are all one, brothers. ...


The prophecies presented here of the destruction of the world by atomic bombs...need not be interpreted literally. Atomic bombs can devastate a country without ever being used. The arms race was disastrous financially both to the Russia and the United States; and the failure of the nuclear reactors can provide enough destructive radioactivity to satisfy any prophecy...."

http://www.texfiles.com/features/prophecies.htm

and:

"Native traditions are rooted in magic, myth and metaphor; Western traditions, in science, history and fact. For the first time in human history both are accessible. In a very real sense these differing world views are like the two hemispheres of the brain: the intuitive right and the reasoning left. The synergistic potential of incorporating native and Western thought is an exciting and difficult prospect. But in a world that is long on problems and short on alternatives, this notion should be considered."

Ahnimus

JREF will give them $1,000,000 if they can prove any magic. They can use the money to upgrade their pottery and agriculture and build new fortresses to keep out the spanish.

Ahnimus

In the 1800's the Hopi were almost wiped out completley by a wave of smallpox, the "White" man was called in to save their ass with all his fanciful and imbalanced medicines.