Do you believe in fate?

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    "All books are books of the Bible."

    I strongly disagree.

    Bible comes from Biblia which translates into "Book".

    "All books are books of the book"

    That is a nonsense statement.

    If you mean "Holy Bible" or "Helio Biblia" translated "Sun Book" then the answer is still no. Probably 90% of the stories in the "Sun Book" are predated by pagan traditions, mostly Sun worshippers. The "Sun Book" is a bit like copying a Picasso and calling it your own, it's plagarism.

    It would be more accurate to say "All books are books of the Sun" but even that is ludicrous. I have this book by Peter Gray called "Introduction to Psychology" it's nothing like the "Sun Book".
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I strongly disagree.

    Bible comes from Biblia which translates into "Book".

    "All books are books of the book"

    That is a nonsense statement.

    If you mean "Holy Bible" or "Helio Biblia" translated "Sun Book" then the answer is still no. Probably 90% of the stories in the "Sun Book" are predated by pagan traditions, mostly Sun worshippers. The "Sun Book" is a bit like copying a Picasso and calling it your own, it's plagarism.

    It would be more accurate to say "All books are books of the Sun" but even that is ludicrous. I have this book by Peter Gray called "Introduction to Psychology" it's nothing like the "Sun Book".
    well, apart from the translations, i.e. "helio" to "sun", commonly it is referred to as a Holy Book, or otherwise "just", "righteous" and "good" book.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    When it first hit me, it was odd. I had recalled something that I had read from several months earlier about the moment of the big bang, creation, or "spark of life" (call it what you will) that everything is set forth on a path of a pre-determined existence or "state of affairs" so to speak.

    All events thereafter will play out according to observable physical laws and phenomenas. I'm beginning to think even if one was to look at it from a planets flying around crashing into each other perspective it would hold true.

    It was a lot like a light bulb going off. Unfortunately I don't remember the other factor that triggered the realization.

    I have to say I feel kinda neutral but definitely intrigued.

    I picked up a copy of A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking for $3.00. I'm almost done reading it. He's gone over quantum mechanics and Big Bang theory, the entire history of our understanding of the universe. He proposes a model of a boundryless universe. He says the Big Bang doesn't actually suggest a beginning, but a significant point in the history of the universe. The fact that all our laws break down at the singularity suggest to Hawking that we should exclude it from our understanding until we have models that accurately describe it.

    "The initial configuration of the universe may have been chosen by God, or it may itself have been determined by the laws of science. In either case, it would seem that everything in the universe would then be determined by evolution according to the laws of science, so it is difficult to see how we can be masters of our fate." -- Stephen Hawking
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    well, apart from the translations, i.e. "helio" to "sun", commonly it is referred to as a Holy Book, or otherwise "just", "righteous" and "good" book.

    Isn't that a bit like saying:

    "Apart from two humans of opposite sex copulating, babies just pop into existence."

    Like "Let's ignore these facts to support our agenda."

    ?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i agree, i'm sure her hallucinations and uncontrollable behavior is due to the medications(man, dude... if only there was someone like you working here where i work... you'd be of great help). but that's not what i'm talking about here. on your previous post you said that it's more likely that everything is caused by something, i.e. my choices (like choosing which film to watch). But can we honestly find any types of evidences by any scientific methods that can prove that my choice was caused by something?

    Honestly?

    I think it's way more complicated than that. In fact, I think it's so complicated that science can't even answer that for us.

    It's a debate that's almost as "undiscussable" as it is discussing the existence, or unexsitence, of a god. Let's go back with my choice of film. Why did I pick the drama over the action? Let's say I rented both films. Let's say that I enjoyed both films equally. But let's say that when I went home I had two choices: whether to play the drama film or the action film first. In a scenario like this it has nothing to do with:

    In this case it just matters on what movie I want to watch first. And like you said, there could've been numerous reasons why I picked the drama over the action film. And simply put, the only mere reason was because I had to watch one film before the other, because obviously I can't watch both films at once. But why in this case did I pick the drama over the action? See what I mean?

    Is there a scientific explanation for it? If there is, I'd be more than fascinated to know.

    It gets into the realm of computational neuroscience. We already know that the brain is a mesh of nerve cells and glial cells. Nerves fire in sequence when they are sufficiently excited by neighbouring nerves. In other words, nerves won't fire unless they are excited, it's a causal chain of events. It is complicated with the implementation of negative feedback loops that inhibit the excitation of neurons. So one nerve cell may be exciting a specific neuron while another is inhibiting it. This is where computational neuroscience seeks to determine the code that's actually being used to compute our ultimate choices.

    The fact that the brain is no more than nerve cells and glials cells arranged in a causal pattern, tells us that there are in-fact causes to our decisions. We just haven't finished figuring it all out. But we do know from pyschology and related social sciences that three main things (genetics, environment and experience) are the "inputs" to the brain. What comes out of the brain, is a matter of computation, or the interaction of the nerve cells in the pattern they are arranged.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Isn't that a bit like saying:

    "Apart from two humans of opposite sex copulating, babies just pop into existence."

    Like "Let's ignore these facts to support our agenda."

    ?
    no. all i'm saying is that it is now meant as a good book. that's what it's meant when it is called Holy Bible.

    sure, i'll support your historical context and whatnot.... but in this case, when speaking of the holy bible... all we mean by it is "the good book." not the sun book.... cause then as you said earlier, claiming that all books are books of the sun book wouldn't make sense.

    but when considering what i said to gue-barium.... i meant it to mean, "all books are NOT books of the good book." cause there could be bad books... right?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    no. all i'm saying is that it is now meant as a good book. that's what it's meant when it is called Holy Bible.

    sure, i'll support your historical context and whatnot.... but in this case, when speaking of the holy bible... all we mean by it is "the good book." not the sun book.... cause then as you said earlier, claiming that all books are books of the sun book wouldn't make sense.

    but when considering what i said to gue-barium.... i meant it to mean, "all books are NOT books of the good book." cause there could be bad books... right?

    Personally, I consider "The Good Book" to be a bad book ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It gets into the realm of computational neuroscience. We already know that the brain is a mesh of nerve cells and glial cells. Nerves fire in sequence when they are sufficiently excited by neighbouring nerves. In other words, nerves won't fire unless they are excited, it's a causal chain of events. It is complicated with the implementation of negative feedback loops that inhibit the excitation of neurons. So one nerve cell may be exciting a specific neuron while another is inhibiting it. This is where computational neuroscience seeks to determine the code that's actually being used to compute our ultimate choices.

    The fact that the brain is no more than nerve cells and glials cells arranged in a causal pattern, tells us that there are in-fact causes to our decisions. We just haven't finished figuring it all out. But we do know from pyschology and related social sciences that three main things (genetics, environment and experience) are the "inputs" to the brain. What comes out of the brain, is a matter of computation, or the interaction of the nerve cells in the pattern they are arranged.
    i don't disagree with any of this. i understand that certain choices we make that excite us are all caused by certain brain cells.

    although however, in speaking to a doctor at a mental health facility he suggested that it's really not known if our emotions or even our will is caused by certain chemicals or cells in our brains. i dunno... i'm not a doctor or anything... i'm just telling you what he told me.

    but still this doesn't explain anything.... considering all of that i still find no reason to deny that it was still my own choice.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Personally, I consider "The Good Book" to be a bad book ;)
    Personally, I consider "The Good Book" to be not only a very entertaining and very dramatic book but also one that we could learn very valuable lessons, including you. Read the verse below ;)
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    Personally, I consider "The Good Book" to be not only a very entertaining and very dramatic book but also one that we could learn very valuable lessons, including you. Read the verse below ;)

    Versus like...

    Numbers

    7 Therefore you and your sons with you shall attend to your priesthood for everything at the altar and behind the veil; and you shall serve. I give your priesthood to you as a gift for service, but the outsider who comes near shall be put to death.”

    23:24 Look, a people rises like a lioness,
    And lifts itself up like a lion;
    It shall not lie down until it devours the prey,
    And drinks the blood of the slain.”

    God really likes his death and sacrifice. Quick everyone go out, get a calf and drink it's blood. Then you will be morally pure.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Versus like...

    Numbers

    7 Therefore you and your sons with you shall attend to your priesthood for everything at the altar and behind the veil; and you shall serve. I give your priesthood to you as a gift for service, but the outsider who comes near shall be put to death.”

    23:24 Look, a people rises like a lioness,
    And lifts itself up like a lion;
    It shall not lie down until it devours the prey,
    And drinks the blood of the slain.”

    God really likes his death and sacrifice. Quick everyone go out, get a calf and drink it's blood. Then you will be morally pure.
    you know... after discussing with me for this long i think you should catch my drift by now. this is a very old way of getting at people, by using numbers. haven't you even heard my other responses when people use numbers, or any of the old testaments? haven't you even looked into what the bible really is about even before placing judgements on it?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    you know... after discussing with me for this long i think you should catch my drift by now. this is a very old way of getting at people, by using numbers. haven't you even heard my other responses when people use numbers, or any of the old testaments? haven't you even looked into what the bible really is about even before placing judgements on it?

    Is it about a ficticious God that flip-flops on his morals?

    One moment he's all into cock-fighting championships and the next he's signing up for PETA?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Is it about a ficticious God that flip-flops on his morals?

    One moment he's all into cock-fighting championships and the next he's signing up for PETA?
    God who at sundry times spoke to our forefathers through miracles, signs and wonders has now in these last days spoken to us by his Son. Hebrews 1:2

    follow it from there ahnimus.... it will be a great journey.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    God who at sundry times spoke to our forefathers through miracles, signs and wonders has now in these last days spoken to us by his Son. Hebrews 1:2

    follow it from there ahnimus.... it will be a great journey.

    I would but I'm stuck on Yasna 1

    "radiant, glorious, the greatest, the best, the most beautiful, the most firm, the most wise, of the most perfect form, the highest in righteousness, possessed of great joy, creator, fashioner, nourisher, and the Most Holy Spirit."

    Do you think Yahweh prays to Mazda?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I would but I'm stuck on Yasna 1

    "radiant, glorious, the greatest, the best, the most beautiful, the most firm, the most wise, of the most perfect form, the highest in righteousness, possessed of great joy, creator, fashioner, nourisher, and the Most Holy Spirit."

    Do you think Yahweh prays to Mazda?
    you do know that this is all irrelevant to me.

    now you gave yasna a chance, give the bible a chance this time.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    you do know that this is all irrelevant to me.

    now you gave yasna a chance, give the bible a chance this time.

    I've actually read the majority of the Christian Bible and parts of the Qu'ran and the Talmud. I'm just reading Yasna for kicks, it's all very much the same. Ahura Mazda is the most high spirit you know? Even greater than Yahweh, unless of course, you believe the Christian texts over the Zoroastrian texts.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I've actually read the majority of the Christian Bible and parts of the Qu'ran and the Talmud. I'm just reading Yasna for kicks, it's all very much the same. Ahura Mazda is the most high spirit you know? Even greater than Yahweh, unless of course, you believe the Christian texts over the Zoroastrian texts.
    so how does this work? we're supposed to look at it side by side and see which one's the right one?

    it all boils down to faith. you obviously don't have that.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    so how does this work? we're supposed to look at it side by side and see which one's the right one?

    it all boils down to faith. you obviously don't have that.

    Faith in what? Mazda? Your god? My neighbours God? Spinoza's God? The Tooth Fairy? The teapot floating around Saturn? The flying Spaghetti monster? Any old shit someone makes up on a whim?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Faith in what? Mazda? Your god? My neighbours God? Spinoza's God? The Tooth Fairy? The teapot floating around Saturn? The flying Spaghetti monster? Any old shit someone makes up on a whim?
    whichever you want.... take your pick... or don't pick any. it's a free world man... free to decide what you want to believe.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I picked up a copy of A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking for $3.00. I'm almost done reading it. He's gone over quantum mechanics and Big Bang theory, the entire history of our understanding of the universe. He proposes a model of a boundryless universe. He says the Big Bang doesn't actually suggest a beginning, but a significant point in the history of the universe. The fact that all our laws break down at the singularity suggest to Hawking that we should exclude it from our understanding until we have models that accurately describe it.

    "The initial configuration of the universe may have been chosen by God, or it may itself have been determined by the laws of science. In either case, it would seem that everything in the universe would then be determined by evolution according to the laws of science, so it is difficult to see how we can be masters of our fate." -- Stephen Hawking

    I look at it in layers, or notches on a microscope's zoom. The singularity would appear not only to be the "glue" binding us (and entire galaxies) of matter (energy) to the next level of scale or magnitude (upwards), but also the lungs or great recyclers of this layer or "dimension" inhaling everything from the smallest to the largest and exhaling (ejecting) it back into X and gamma ray photons (via light years long streams) back into space, to then again combine upwards into something greater again accumulate and combine upwards.

    It makes you wonder though...as one travels upwards in scale and magnitude that we are quite possibly (inevitably) in fact within a black hole at some point traveling along throughout space and time (and so on).

    This is why I'm am interested for CERN to discover and create black holes with the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). It would essentially prove this.

    Freaky shit...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
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    (")_(")

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