Science Doubter Question

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    it's a jargon that unbelievers do not understand... that's why it's important to take the scriptures simply as it is.

    Benedict de Spinoza was a Jew.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    and with all due respect, i respect what you saw and i mean no offense by it. but i am not convinced that you saw God... since i am an avid reader of the bible it mentions that no one has ever seen God at any time. and i said if you believe something entirely different as opposed to biblical beliefs... then i understand. God is to potent and too supernatural for our natural bodies to contain.
    I understand you mean no offense--you convey that well. And I respect your beliefs.

    I'm merely bound by the Truth of my own experiences. I fully agree that by seeing God, I could not possibly grasp the totality of God. God has shown me many things about my own life, as through the divine perspective, so that I could understand and have "peace that passeth all understanding".

    Our bodies can and do contain God, at all times--they just don't contain the totality of God. Like the drop of water always contains the ocean--but not the whole of the ocean.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Benedict de Spinoza was a Jew.
    that doesn't mean anything
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    angelica wrote:
    I understand you mean no offense--you convey that well. And I respect your beliefs.

    I'm merely bound by the Truth of my own experiences. I fully agree that by seeing God, I could not possibly grasp the totality of God. God has shown me many things about my own life, as through the divine perspective, so that I could understand and have "peace that passeth all understanding".

    Our bodies can and do contain God, at all times--they just don't contain the totality of God. Like the drop of water always contains the ocean--but not the whole of the ocean.
    it was Christ's duty to bring about these understandings taht you speak of... simply because humanity had no relation with God on a one-on-one basis. christ came to bring us that understanding to know God in his fullest form... so in essence we have seen God but not with our spiritual eyes but merely with our spirits.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    that doesn't mean anything

    So, what you are saying is that no one knows but you. And he who claims to "believe" and "to know" is not truly a believer, if his knowledge is not your claim as well?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • ForestBrain
    ForestBrain Posts: 460
    Arguing over evolution and religion:
    Waste. Of. Time.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Can I ask a question or two?
    It's directed mostly at you, Ahnimus.
    Why is it so important to you to throw religious people's beliefs in their face? Why not just let them believe what they want to believe?
    I'm not going to argue with you and try to make you see my side. You believe what you feel you should believe. That's completely fine.

    Because it's a selfish meme that behaves like a virus infecting the minds of the young. Humanity is my reason, I respect human life.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    it was Christ's duty to bring about these understandings taht you speak of... simply because humanity had no relation with God on a one-on-one basis. christ came to bring us that understanding to know God in his fullest form... so in essence we have seen God but not with our spiritual eyes but merely with our spirits.
    I've had a relationship with God one on one for 13 years, that began with God showing me things that I see visually. It's my understanding that all people can have such a relationship in this way.

    I understand you may look at these things differently. That does not change my experience.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    So, what you are saying is that no one knows but you. And he who claims to "believe" and "to know" is not truly a believer, if his knowledge is not your claim as well?
    no... i never said he was an unbeliever... but i'm not really following your frame of thought anymore.

    see, looking at the scriptures "as they are written" it's context is contained the teachings of Christ from start to finish. they are not interpretations. that's why i said it's like a jargon that unbelievers do not understand just as benedict said that he neither denies or affirms it, he simply doesn't understand them. if he were to understand them he would understand what the scriptures declare. the doctrine of the church has been the same as what the scripture says. and i'm not talking about the differences in denominations (i.e. contradictions between trinitarians, baptists, pentecostals, lutherans, catholics) a friend of mine once said, "everyone just has a piece of the pie but not the pie as a whole"
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Because it's a selfish meme that behaves like a virus infecting the minds of the young. Humanity is my reason, I respect human life.
    Are you saying that you infringing on people's beliefs is part of your selfish meme? ;) You respect human life WHEN exactly you are respecting human life.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    angelica wrote:
    I've had a relationship with God one on one for 13 years, that began with God showing me things that I see visually. It's my understanding that all people can have such a relationship in this way.

    I understand you may look at these things differently. That does not change my experience.
    my understanding is the understanding of the scriptures...
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    my understanding is the understanding of the scriptures...
    I completely respect your view as I said.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    angelica wrote:
    I completely respect your view as I said.
    i'm assuming you don't believe in the bible. it's a bit peculiar because i've seen you mention scriptures before.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i'm assuming you don't believe in the bible. it's a bit peculiar because i've seen you mention scriptures before.
    I believe in the bible as inspired by God. I've also been inspired by God in my personal spiritual experiences.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Are you saying that you infringing on people's beliefs is part of your selfish meme? ;) You respect human life WHEN exactly you are respecting human life.

    It is, all of human nature is selfish.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • ForestBrain
    ForestBrain Posts: 460
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Because it's a selfish meme that behaves like a virus infecting the minds of the young. Humanity is my reason, I respect human life.
    Ew. I've concluded that you're one of those people I can't stand. Adios, dude.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Ew. I've concluded that you're one of those people I can't stand. Adios, dude.

    "(13) By the help of God, I mean the fixed and unchangeable order of nature
    or the chain of natural events: for I have said before and shown elsewhere
    that the universal laws of nature, according to which all things exist and
    are determined, are only another name for the eternal decrees of God, which
    always involve eternal truth and necessity.

    (14) So that to say that everything happens according to natural laws, and
    to say that everything is ordained by the decree and ordinance of God, is
    the same thing. (15) Now since the power in nature is identical with the
    power of God, by which alone all things happen and are determined, it
    follows that whatsoever man, as a part of nature, provides himself with to
    aid and preserve his existence, or whatsoever nature affords him without his
    help, is given to him solely by the Divine power, acting either through
    human nature or through external circumstance. (16) So whatever human nature
    can furnish itself with by its own efforts to preserve its existence, may
    be fitly called the inward aid of God, whereas whatever else accrues to
    man's profit from outward causes may be called the external aid of God"
    -Benedict de Spinoza
    http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/1spnt10.txt
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    im with ryan on this one.
    nothing i have ever seen or experienced in my entire lifetime, has ever led me to believe there is a God or even the possibility of one. ive been through traumas, i have been through exultant experiences, but not once did i ever entertain the notion that there anything supernatural at work. ive never asked for anyones forgiveness and i dont expect it. ive never wondered whether something other than our own selves is responsible for anything that happens to us during our lifetimes. and i sure as shit am not expecting some reward or whatever when i die. i live my life true to myself and those around me as best as i can and that is enough. it is all i am asking from my life.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • SharonC
    SharonC Posts: 105
    ForestBrain wrote:
    How ironic. I could say the same about you and the Bible.
    I know this is going to sound completely ignorant of me (because that's the word people like to use), but I do not believe most of what scientists have to say. I don't. It's all mostly theories and educated guesses. I say people need to use their own common sense and draw their own conclusions.
    I'm not saying I don't believe in scientific FACTS. But I don't have much respect for some scientists.
    I'm not going to try to convince you to believe there is a God, so please don't try to convince me that evolution exists.
    They're both based on faith and choosing what you want to believe.

    ForestBrain, I have read the bible, and I grew up with a religious background. My question for you is if you think everyone should use their own common sense and draw their own conclusions, what have you done in order to draw these conculsions. You're completely dismissing science without even understanding it's basic methods. I echo the question you were asked earlier: Why don't you have any respect for some scientists? But even if that were the case, it's not some scientists embracing evolutionary theory, it's the overwhelming majority of them.
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Can I ask a question or two?
    It's directed mostly at you, Ahnimus.
    Why is it so important to you to throw religious people's beliefs in their face? Why not just let them believe what they want to believe?
    I'm not going to argue with you and try to make you see my side. You believe what you feel you should believe. That's completely fine.

    I'm not Ahnimus, and I don't believe I've thrown anyone's religion in their face here, but I'd like to address the "why not just let them believe what they want to believe" issue. I have no problem with religious people. I respect their beliefs and I do not try to convince them they are wrong. However, I expect them to keep those religious beliefs out of my science class. Creation science is not and never will be science. It has no place in a science classroom any more than I belong in your Sunday School class teaching evolution. My ONLY problem with religious people is if they try to replace science with religion and call that science.

    Many good scientists believe in God, but they do not treat that belief as science.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    SharonC wrote:
    I'm not Ahnimus, and I don't believe I've thrown anyone's religion in their face here.

    I don't believe I have either.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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