it's a jargon that unbelievers do not understand... that's why it's important to take the scriptures simply as it is.
Benedict de Spinoza was a Jew.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
and with all due respect, i respect what you saw and i mean no offense by it. but i am not convinced that you saw God... since i am an avid reader of the bible it mentions that no one has ever seen God at any time. and i said if you believe something entirely different as opposed to biblical beliefs... then i understand. God is to potent and too supernatural for our natural bodies to contain.
I understand you mean no offense--you convey that well. And I respect your beliefs.
I'm merely bound by the Truth of my own experiences. I fully agree that by seeing God, I could not possibly grasp the totality of God. God has shown me many things about my own life, as through the divine perspective, so that I could understand and have "peace that passeth all understanding".
Our bodies can and do contain God, at all times--they just don't contain the totality of God. Like the drop of water always contains the ocean--but not the whole of the ocean.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I understand you mean no offense--you convey that well. And I respect your beliefs.
I'm merely bound by the Truth of my own experiences. I fully agree that by seeing God, I could not possibly grasp the totality of God. God has shown me many things about my own life, as through the divine perspective, so that I could understand and have "peace that passeth all understanding".
Our bodies can and do contain God, at all times--they just don't contain the totality of God. Like the drop of water always contains the ocean--but not the whole of the ocean.
it was Christ's duty to bring about these understandings taht you speak of... simply because humanity had no relation with God on a one-on-one basis. christ came to bring us that understanding to know God in his fullest form... so in essence we have seen God but not with our spiritual eyes but merely with our spirits.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
So, what you are saying is that no one knows but you. And he who claims to "believe" and "to know" is not truly a believer, if his knowledge is not your claim as well?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Can I ask a question or two?
It's directed mostly at you, Ahnimus.
Why is it so important to you to throw religious people's beliefs in their face? Why not just let them believe what they want to believe?
I'm not going to argue with you and try to make you see my side. You believe what you feel you should believe. That's completely fine.
Because it's a selfish meme that behaves like a virus infecting the minds of the young. Humanity is my reason, I respect human life.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
it was Christ's duty to bring about these understandings taht you speak of... simply because humanity had no relation with God on a one-on-one basis. christ came to bring us that understanding to know God in his fullest form... so in essence we have seen God but not with our spiritual eyes but merely with our spirits.
I've had a relationship with God one on one for 13 years, that began with God showing me things that I see visually. It's my understanding that all people can have such a relationship in this way.
I understand you may look at these things differently. That does not change my experience.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
So, what you are saying is that no one knows but you. And he who claims to "believe" and "to know" is not truly a believer, if his knowledge is not your claim as well?
no... i never said he was an unbeliever... but i'm not really following your frame of thought anymore.
see, looking at the scriptures "as they are written" it's context is contained the teachings of Christ from start to finish. they are not interpretations. that's why i said it's like a jargon that unbelievers do not understand just as benedict said that he neither denies or affirms it, he simply doesn't understand them. if he were to understand them he would understand what the scriptures declare. the doctrine of the church has been the same as what the scripture says. and i'm not talking about the differences in denominations (i.e. contradictions between trinitarians, baptists, pentecostals, lutherans, catholics) a friend of mine once said, "everyone just has a piece of the pie but not the pie as a whole"
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Because it's a selfish meme that behaves like a virus infecting the minds of the young. Humanity is my reason, I respect human life.
Are you saying that you infringing on people's beliefs is part of your selfish meme? You respect human life WHEN exactly you are respecting human life.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I've had a relationship with God one on one for 13 years, that began with God showing me things that I see visually. It's my understanding that all people can have such a relationship in this way.
I understand you may look at these things differently. That does not change my experience.
my understanding is the understanding of the scriptures...
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Are you saying that you infringing on people's beliefs is part of your selfish meme? You respect human life WHEN exactly you are respecting human life.
It is, all of human nature is selfish.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Ew. I've concluded that you're one of those people I can't stand. Adios, dude.
"(13) By the help of God, I mean the fixed and unchangeable order of nature
or the chain of natural events: for I have said before and shown elsewhere
that the universal laws of nature, according to which all things exist and
are determined, are only another name for the eternal decrees of God, which
always involve eternal truth and necessity.
(14) So that to say that everything happens according to natural laws, and
to say that everything is ordained by the decree and ordinance of God, is
the same thing. (15) Now since the power in nature is identical with the
power of God, by which alone all things happen and are determined, it
follows that whatsoever man, as a part of nature, provides himself with to
aid and preserve his existence, or whatsoever nature affords him without his
help, is given to him solely by the Divine power, acting either through
human nature or through external circumstance. (16) So whatever human nature
can furnish itself with by its own efforts to preserve its existence, may
be fitly called the inward aid of God, whereas whatever else accrues to
man's profit from outward causes may be called the external aid of God"
-Benedict de Spinoza http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/1spnt10.txt
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
im with ryan on this one.
nothing i have ever seen or experienced in my entire lifetime, has ever led me to believe there is a God or even the possibility of one. ive been through traumas, i have been through exultant experiences, but not once did i ever entertain the notion that there anything supernatural at work. ive never asked for anyones forgiveness and i dont expect it. ive never wondered whether something other than our own selves is responsible for anything that happens to us during our lifetimes. and i sure as shit am not expecting some reward or whatever when i die. i live my life true to myself and those around me as best as i can and that is enough. it is all i am asking from my life.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
How ironic. I could say the same about you and the Bible.
I know this is going to sound completely ignorant of me (because that's the word people like to use), but I do not believe most of what scientists have to say. I don't. It's all mostly theories and educated guesses. I say people need to use their own common sense and draw their own conclusions.
I'm not saying I don't believe in scientific FACTS. But I don't have much respect for some scientists.
I'm not going to try to convince you to believe there is a God, so please don't try to convince me that evolution exists.
They're both based on faith and choosing what you want to believe.
ForestBrain, I have read the bible, and I grew up with a religious background. My question for you is if you think everyone should use their own common sense and draw their own conclusions, what have you done in order to draw these conculsions. You're completely dismissing science without even understanding it's basic methods. I echo the question you were asked earlier: Why don't you have any respect for some scientists? But even if that were the case, it's not some scientists embracing evolutionary theory, it's the overwhelming majority of them.
Can I ask a question or two?
It's directed mostly at you, Ahnimus.
Why is it so important to you to throw religious people's beliefs in their face? Why not just let them believe what they want to believe?
I'm not going to argue with you and try to make you see my side. You believe what you feel you should believe. That's completely fine.
I'm not Ahnimus, and I don't believe I've thrown anyone's religion in their face here, but I'd like to address the "why not just let them believe what they want to believe" issue. I have no problem with religious people. I respect their beliefs and I do not try to convince them they are wrong. However, I expect them to keep those religious beliefs out of my science class. Creation science is not and never will be science. It has no place in a science classroom any more than I belong in your Sunday School class teaching evolution. My ONLY problem with religious people is if they try to replace science with religion and call that science.
Many good scientists believe in God, but they do not treat that belief as science.
I'm not Ahnimus, and I don't believe I've thrown anyone's religion in their face here.
I don't believe I have either.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Sorry, I didn't say that very clearly. I didn't mean that you had done that, just that I wasn't you because the question was addressed to you. The not throwing people's beliefs in their faces was meant to be separate.
ForestBrain, I have read the bible, and I grew up with a religious background. My question for you is if you think everyone should use their own common sense and draw their own conclusions, what have you done in order to draw these conculsions. You're completely dismissing science without even understanding it's basic methods. I echo the question you were asked earlier: Why don't you have any respect for some scientists? But even if that were the case, it's not some scientists embracing evolutionary theory, it's the overwhelming majority of them.
I'm not Ahnimus, and I don't believe I've thrown anyone's religion in their face here, but I'd like to address the "why not just let them believe what they want to believe" issue. I have no problem with religious people. I respect their beliefs and I do not try to convince them they are wrong. However, I expect them to keep those religious beliefs out of my science class. Creation science is not and never will be science. It has no place in a science classroom any more than I belong in your Sunday School class teaching evolution. My ONLY problem with religious people is if they try to replace science with religion and call that science.
Many good scientists believe in God, but they do not treat that belief as science.
Addressing your first note:
I do know some science, I never excelled in the subject, but I know the basics. The reason I do not respect some (I said some) scientists is because I do not support at all using animals as test subjects. I think using dead fetal (mostly aborted) tissue is abominable. Cloning is also abominable (In MY eyes, I don't expect anybody else to feel this way).
I'm not in your science class. I'm discussing things on a message board, in a thread titled "science doubter question". I KNOW there are people out there that are so-called Christians and they go around doing their protesting and they attack scientists and those who believe in evolution. I'm not like that.
I don't care if people believe in evolution, that's their choice. The thing that bothers me is the fact that some of those people for some reason feel the need to bash religion and to shove their crap down people's throats. I don't like that. It's rude. It's not their right to do that.
See....to a Christian, God is the ultimate scientist. Do you understand that?
To a Christian, God created everything, so a Christian believes that God knows everything and He knows how everything works. People seem to think they choose God, it doesn't work that way...to a person who knows the Bible.
This isn't me bashing anybody, it's me stating what I believe.
There is no way I'm about to say that Christians have left a good reputation. In fact, I don't even like calling myself a Christian because people get the wrong idea.
I just simply do not need some man telling me where we came from. I already know, me personally. That is how I feel. I don't expect anybody else to feel that way.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
Addressing your first note:
I do know some science, I never excelled in the subject, but I know the basics. The reason I do not respect some (I said some) scientists is because I do not support at all using animals as test subjects. I think using dead fetal (mostly aborted) tissue is abominable. Cloning is also abominable (In MY eyes, I don't expect anybody else to feel this way).
Wow, umm, that's not a good reason to ignore science, IMO.
Dead fetal tissue, that's interesting. I thought stem-cells were taken from a blastocyst, you can call that a fetus if you want, I call it a chunk of embryonic stem-cells. But thankfully, we won't have to do that anymore. Scientists have devised a way of making non-viable embryos to appease your type.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I believe in the bible as inspired by God. I've also been inspired by God in my personal spiritual experiences.
then if you believe in the bible as inspired by God then how can you not agree that our way through God is through Jesus Christ? that was his role... that's what he came for to bring us the understanding of God.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
then if you believe in the bible as inspired by God then how can you not agree that our way through God is through Jesus Christ? that was his role... that's what he came for to bring us the understanding of God.
The bible is inspired by God; and written and edited and translated by humans.
I have experienced God, personally. Through Jesus is definitely one way to God. It is not the only way. God is pure, all-encompassing Love. There are many riddles for us to solve in order to find the truth. None of the answers are found in judging or rejecting any person for any reason. The truth is found in Love and in inclusion and acceptance of all.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
The bible is inspired by God; and written and edited and translated by humans.
I have experienced God, personally. Through Jesus is definitely one way to God. It is not the only way. God is pure, all-encompassing Love. There are many riddles for us to solve in order to find the truth. None of the answers are found in judging or rejecting any person for any reason. The truth is found in Love and in inclusion and acceptance of all.
the only thing is that what you are saying is not what the bible teaches... if the bible was edited, rewritten, translated or whatnot than that's a whole other ballgame.
things like our way to God is not only through Jesus is something that the bible whole-heartedly and reverendly disputes.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
the only thing is that what you are saying is not what the bible teaches... if the bible was edited, rewritten, translated or whatnot than that's a whole other ballgame.
things like our way to God is not only through Jesus is something that the bible whole-heartedly and reverendly disputes.
Again, the Spirit of God, as spoken through the bible, has gone through many changes and amendments by humans. The true Spirit of God is not ever separate from his children--us. It is us who think we are separate. Yes, Jesus came to close that gap. However, he's not the only mystic who has shown us great wisdom. God is in and around each one of us right now. God is unconditional Love. We cannot escape that Love.
Granted, when we choose actions that separate ourselves from God, we further blind ourselves from our inner truth and wisdom--we shut off from God at our centre. And then at death, we reunite with God, and we realize what we've done. This goes for Christians as well. We all must atone for each choice we've made. Which includes judging our brothers and sisters, and further separating, rather than including God's beings.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It is much simpler to dispute the origin of the Helios Biblia (Holy Bible)
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Benedict de Spinoza was a Jew.
I'm merely bound by the Truth of my own experiences. I fully agree that by seeing God, I could not possibly grasp the totality of God. God has shown me many things about my own life, as through the divine perspective, so that I could understand and have "peace that passeth all understanding".
Our bodies can and do contain God, at all times--they just don't contain the totality of God. Like the drop of water always contains the ocean--but not the whole of the ocean.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
So, what you are saying is that no one knows but you. And he who claims to "believe" and "to know" is not truly a believer, if his knowledge is not your claim as well?
Waste. Of. Time.
Because it's a selfish meme that behaves like a virus infecting the minds of the young. Humanity is my reason, I respect human life.
I understand you may look at these things differently. That does not change my experience.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
see, looking at the scriptures "as they are written" it's context is contained the teachings of Christ from start to finish. they are not interpretations. that's why i said it's like a jargon that unbelievers do not understand just as benedict said that he neither denies or affirms it, he simply doesn't understand them. if he were to understand them he would understand what the scriptures declare. the doctrine of the church has been the same as what the scripture says. and i'm not talking about the differences in denominations (i.e. contradictions between trinitarians, baptists, pentecostals, lutherans, catholics) a friend of mine once said, "everyone just has a piece of the pie but not the pie as a whole"
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It is, all of human nature is selfish.
"(13) By the help of God, I mean the fixed and unchangeable order of nature
or the chain of natural events: for I have said before and shown elsewhere
that the universal laws of nature, according to which all things exist and
are determined, are only another name for the eternal decrees of God, which
always involve eternal truth and necessity.
(14) So that to say that everything happens according to natural laws, and
to say that everything is ordained by the decree and ordinance of God, is
the same thing. (15) Now since the power in nature is identical with the
power of God, by which alone all things happen and are determined, it
follows that whatsoever man, as a part of nature, provides himself with to
aid and preserve his existence, or whatsoever nature affords him without his
help, is given to him solely by the Divine power, acting either through
human nature or through external circumstance. (16) So whatever human nature
can furnish itself with by its own efforts to preserve its existence, may
be fitly called the inward aid of God, whereas whatever else accrues to
man's profit from outward causes may be called the external aid of God"
-Benedict de Spinoza
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/1spnt10.txt
nothing i have ever seen or experienced in my entire lifetime, has ever led me to believe there is a God or even the possibility of one. ive been through traumas, i have been through exultant experiences, but not once did i ever entertain the notion that there anything supernatural at work. ive never asked for anyones forgiveness and i dont expect it. ive never wondered whether something other than our own selves is responsible for anything that happens to us during our lifetimes. and i sure as shit am not expecting some reward or whatever when i die. i live my life true to myself and those around me as best as i can and that is enough. it is all i am asking from my life.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
ForestBrain, I have read the bible, and I grew up with a religious background. My question for you is if you think everyone should use their own common sense and draw their own conclusions, what have you done in order to draw these conculsions. You're completely dismissing science without even understanding it's basic methods. I echo the question you were asked earlier: Why don't you have any respect for some scientists? But even if that were the case, it's not some scientists embracing evolutionary theory, it's the overwhelming majority of them.
I'm not Ahnimus, and I don't believe I've thrown anyone's religion in their face here, but I'd like to address the "why not just let them believe what they want to believe" issue. I have no problem with religious people. I respect their beliefs and I do not try to convince them they are wrong. However, I expect them to keep those religious beliefs out of my science class. Creation science is not and never will be science. It has no place in a science classroom any more than I belong in your Sunday School class teaching evolution. My ONLY problem with religious people is if they try to replace science with religion and call that science.
Many good scientists believe in God, but they do not treat that belief as science.
I don't believe I have either.
Sorry, I didn't say that very clearly. I didn't mean that you had done that, just that I wasn't you because the question was addressed to you. The not throwing people's beliefs in their faces was meant to be separate.
I do know some science, I never excelled in the subject, but I know the basics. The reason I do not respect some (I said some) scientists is because I do not support at all using animals as test subjects. I think using dead fetal (mostly aborted) tissue is abominable. Cloning is also abominable (In MY eyes, I don't expect anybody else to feel this way).
I'm not in your science class. I'm discussing things on a message board, in a thread titled "science doubter question". I KNOW there are people out there that are so-called Christians and they go around doing their protesting and they attack scientists and those who believe in evolution. I'm not like that.
I don't care if people believe in evolution, that's their choice. The thing that bothers me is the fact that some of those people for some reason feel the need to bash religion and to shove their crap down people's throats. I don't like that. It's rude. It's not their right to do that.
See....to a Christian, God is the ultimate scientist. Do you understand that?
To a Christian, God created everything, so a Christian believes that God knows everything and He knows how everything works. People seem to think they choose God, it doesn't work that way...to a person who knows the Bible.
This isn't me bashing anybody, it's me stating what I believe.
There is no way I'm about to say that Christians have left a good reputation. In fact, I don't even like calling myself a Christian because people get the wrong idea.
I just simply do not need some man telling me where we came from. I already know, me personally. That is how I feel. I don't expect anybody else to feel that way.
Wow, umm, that's not a good reason to ignore science, IMO.
Dead fetal tissue, that's interesting. I thought stem-cells were taken from a blastocyst, you can call that a fetus if you want, I call it a chunk of embryonic stem-cells. But thankfully, we won't have to do that anymore. Scientists have devised a way of making non-viable embryos to appease your type.
whilst i dont think cloning is abominable, i dont agree with it. personally i find war more abominable.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I have experienced God, personally. Through Jesus is definitely one way to God. It is not the only way. God is pure, all-encompassing Love. There are many riddles for us to solve in order to find the truth. None of the answers are found in judging or rejecting any person for any reason. The truth is found in Love and in inclusion and acceptance of all.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
things like our way to God is not only through Jesus is something that the bible whole-heartedly and reverendly disputes.
Granted, when we choose actions that separate ourselves from God, we further blind ourselves from our inner truth and wisdom--we shut off from God at our centre. And then at death, we reunite with God, and we realize what we've done. This goes for Christians as well. We all must atone for each choice we've made. Which includes judging our brothers and sisters, and further separating, rather than including God's beings.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
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