Science Doubter Question

SharonC

Ahnimus wrote:

I don't believe I have either.

Sorry, I didn't say that very clearly. I didn't mean that you had done that, just that I wasn't you because the question was addressed to you. The not throwing people's beliefs in their faces was meant to be separate.

ForestBrain

SharonC wrote:

ForestBrain, I have read the bible, and I grew up with a religious background. My question for you is if you think everyone should use their own common sense and draw their own conclusions, what have you done in order to draw these conculsions. You're completely dismissing science without even understanding it's basic methods. I echo the question you were asked earlier: Why don't you have any respect for some scientists? But even if that were the case, it's not some scientists embracing evolutionary theory, it's the overwhelming majority of them.



I'm not Ahnimus, and I don't believe I've thrown anyone's religion in their face here, but I'd like to address the "why not just let them believe what they want to believe" issue. I have no problem with religious people. I respect their beliefs and I do not try to convince them they are wrong. However, I expect them to keep those religious beliefs out of my science class. Creation science is not and never will be science. It has no place in a science classroom any more than I belong in your Sunday School class teaching evolution. My ONLY problem with religious people is if they try to replace science with religion and call that science.

Many good scientists believe in God, but they do not treat that belief as science.

Addressing your first note:
I do know some science, I never excelled in the subject, but I know the basics. The reason I do not respect some (I said some) scientists is because I do not support at all using animals as test subjects. I think using dead fetal (mostly aborted) tissue is abominable. Cloning is also abominable (In MY eyes, I don't expect anybody else to feel this way).
I'm not in your science class. I'm discussing things on a message board, in a thread titled "science doubter question". I KNOW there are people out there that are so-called Christians and they go around doing their protesting and they attack scientists and those who believe in evolution. I'm not like that.
I don't care if people believe in evolution, that's their choice. The thing that bothers me is the fact that some of those people for some reason feel the need to bash religion and to shove their crap down people's throats. I don't like that. It's rude. It's not their right to do that.
See....to a Christian, God is the ultimate scientist. Do you understand that?
To a Christian, God created everything, so a Christian believes that God knows everything and He knows how everything works. People seem to think they choose God, it doesn't work that way...to a person who knows the Bible.
This isn't me bashing anybody, it's me stating what I believe.
There is no way I'm about to say that Christians have left a good reputation. In fact, I don't even like calling myself a Christian because people get the wrong idea.
I just simply do not need some man telling me where we came from. I already know, me personally. That is how I feel. I don't expect anybody else to feel that way.

Ahnimus

ForestBrain wrote:

Addressing your first note:
I do know some science, I never excelled in the subject, but I know the basics. The reason I do not respect some (I said some) scientists is because I do not support at all using animals as test subjects. I think using dead fetal (mostly aborted) tissue is abominable. Cloning is also abominable (In MY eyes, I don't expect anybody else to feel this way).

Wow, umm, that's not a good reason to ignore science, IMO.

Dead fetal tissue, that's interesting. I thought stem-cells were taken from a blastocyst, you can call that a fetus if you want, I call it a chunk of embryonic stem-cells. But thankfully, we won't have to do that anymore. Scientists have devised a way of making non-viable embryos to appease your type.

catefrances

ForestBrain wrote:

Cloning is also abominable (In MY eyes, I don't expect anybody else to feel this way).

whilst i dont think cloning is abominable, i dont agree with it. personally i find war more abominable.

deadnothingbetter

angelica wrote:

I believe in the bible as inspired by God. I've also been inspired by God in my personal spiritual experiences.

then if you believe in the bible as inspired by God then how can you not agree that our way through God is through Jesus Christ? that was his role... that's what he came for to bring us the understanding of God.

angelica

deadnothingbetter wrote:

then if you believe in the bible as inspired by God then how can you not agree that our way through God is through Jesus Christ? that was his role... that's what he came for to bring us the understanding of God.

The bible is inspired by God; and written and edited and translated by humans.

I have experienced God, personally. Through Jesus is definitely one way to God. It is not the only way. God is pure, all-encompassing Love. There are many riddles for us to solve in order to find the truth. None of the answers are found in judging or rejecting any person for any reason. The truth is found in Love and in inclusion and acceptance of all.

deadnothingbetter

angelica wrote:

The bible is inspired by God; and written and edited and translated by humans.

I have experienced God, personally. Through Jesus is definitely one way to God. It is not the only way. God is pure, all-encompassing Love. There are many riddles for us to solve in order to find the truth. None of the answers are found in judging or rejecting any person for any reason. The truth is found in Love and in inclusion and acceptance of all.

the only thing is that what you are saying is not what the bible teaches... if the bible was edited, rewritten, translated or whatnot than that's a whole other ballgame.

things like our way to God is not only through Jesus is something that the bible whole-heartedly and reverendly disputes.

angelica

deadnothingbetter wrote:

the only thing is that what you are saying is not what the bible teaches... if the bible was edited, rewritten, translated or whatnot than that's a whole other ballgame.

things like our way to God is not only through Jesus is something that the bible whole-heartedly and reverendly disputes.

Again, the Spirit of God, as spoken through the bible, has gone through many changes and amendments by humans. The true Spirit of God is not ever separate from his children--us. It is us who think we are separate. Yes, Jesus came to close that gap. However, he's not the only mystic who has shown us great wisdom. God is in and around each one of us right now. God is unconditional Love. We cannot escape that Love.

Granted, when we choose actions that separate ourselves from God, we further blind ourselves from our inner truth and wisdom--we shut off from God at our centre. And then at death, we reunite with God, and we realize what we've done. This goes for Christians as well. We all must atone for each choice we've made. Which includes judging our brothers and sisters, and further separating, rather than including God's beings.

Ahnimus

It is much simpler to dispute the origin of the Helios Biblia (Holy Bible)

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

The bible is inspired by God; and written and edited and translated by humans.

The bible is a collection of stories, as any other collection of stories.

deadnothingbetter

angelica wrote:

Again, the Spirit of God, as spoken through the bible, has gone through many changes and amendments by humans. The true Spirit of God is not ever separate from his children--us. It is us who think we are separate. Yes, Jesus came to close that gap. However, he's not the only mystic who has shown us great wisdom. God is in and around each one of us right now. God is unconditional Love. We cannot escape that Love.

Granted, when we choose actions that separate ourselves from God, we further blind ourselves from our inner truth and wisdom--we shut off from God at our centre. And then at death, we reunite with God, and we realize what we've done. This goes for Christians as well. We all must atone for each choice we've made. Which includes judging our brothers and sisters, and further separating, rather than including God's beings.

and again as i've said... your teachings are not what the Bible teaches... regardless if the bible was rearranged and whatnot. i hate to sound black and white but you either believe in the bible as a whole or you don't.

angelica

deadnothingbetter wrote:

and again as i've said... your teachings are not what the Bible teaches... regardless if the bible was rearranged and whatnot. i hate to sound black and white but you either believe in the bible as a whole or you don't.

Whose interpretation of the bible? Of the whole?

We both know you can decide for yourself. You sure can't tell me what I believe.

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

Whose interpretation of the bible? Of the whole?

We both know you can decide for yourself. You sure can't tell me what I believe.

And that is the typical childish attitude that is common among the bible-beaters: "I don't have to communicate with you if I don't want to."

deadnothingbetter

angelica wrote:

Whose interpretation of the bible? Of the whole?

We both know you can decide for yourself. You sure can't tell me what I believe.

no, don't take things out of proportion here. i'm not trying to "set you right"... i'm only saying that what you say is not biblical. that's all. if you want to believe in it... by all means, go ahead but be aware that it is not what Christ intended... at least according to the bible it isn't. i am not speaking of my interpretation or your interpretation... i'm speaking about the bible in its purest context. if you say "the bible was reedited, reinstalled, reorganized, reexplained, reinstituted millions of times" then i'm only taking that as a "i don't believe in it completely" statement. which is fine by me... i'm not by any means judging you

gue_barium

catefrances wrote:

im with ryan on this one.
nothing i have ever seen or experienced in my entire lifetime, has ever led me to believe there is a God or even the possibility of one. ive been through traumas, i have been through exultant experiences, but not once did i ever entertain the notion that there anything supernatural at work. ive never asked for anyones forgiveness and i dont expect it. ive never wondered whether something other than our own selves is responsible for anything that happens to us during our lifetimes. and i sure as shit am not expecting some reward or whatever when i die. i live my life true to myself and those around me as best as i can and that is enough. it is all i am asking from my life.

God is one of those interchangeable, multi-purpose words. It isn't a matter of believing if there is such a thing as god, it is a matter using the word "god" to your best advantage. Kind of like, "fuck."

angelica

deadnothingbetter wrote:

no, don't take things out of proportion here. i'm not trying to "set you right"... i'm only saying that what you say is not biblical. that's all. if you want to believe in it... by all means, go ahead but be aware that it is not what Christ intended... at least according to the bible it isn't. i am not speaking of my interpretation or your interpretation... i'm speaking about the bible in its purest context. if you say "the bible was reedited, reinstalled, reorganized, reexplained, reinstituted millions of times" then i'm only taking that as a "i don't believe in it completely" statement. which is fine by me... i'm not by any means judging you

Because I've had numerous spiritual connections/experiences, I see the value in all truths. And how at essence they are all correct. It's once humans take them and internalize them that they become distorted and become about separation and segregation. You might notice my signature. Two opposing truths can stand and both be 100% accurate. We lose touch with God and wholeness and the Truth, when we judge and use our judgment to separate. When we use our intelligence to separate and see sin, we lose our ability to see the Garden of Eden God has provided us.

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

Because I've had numerous spiritual connections/experiences, I see the value in all truths. And how at essence they are all correct. It's once humans take them and internalize them that they become distorted and become about separation and segregation. You might notice my signature. Two opposing truths can stand and both be 100% accurate. We lose touch with God and wholeness and the Truth, when we judge and use our judgment to separate. When we use our intelligence to separate and see sin, we lose our ability to see the Garden of Eden God has provided us.

I think we lose touch with Fuck, IMHO.

deadnothingbetter

angelica wrote:

Because I've had numerous spiritual connections/experiences, I see the value in all truths. And how at essence they are all correct. It's once humans take them and internalize them that they become distorted and become about separation and segregation. You might notice my signature. Two opposing truths can stand and both be 100% accurate. We lose touch with God and wholeness and the Truth, when we judge and use our judgment to separate. When we use our intelligence to separate and see sin, we lose our ability to see the Garden of Eden God has provided us.

i'm sure you've had great spiritual experiences... i'm not discrediting them and i'm sure you've found meaning in them too even i might find meanings in them myself. see, i believe that we can have a one-on-one access with God... so don't get me wrong. but this came about eventually when I began to know who Christ is and what he did for humanity. all these "profound truths" you speak of came to our knowledge because of Christ. prior to Christ we didn't have access to God. the only way humanity had access was through the covenant that God had made with Abraham. but even yet, every year the priest had to go through this ritual to make an atonement for our sins... he was the mediator between God and man. when Christ came, he came to do away with that. now once we understand Christ's purpose for us and once we abide by his love and goodness will we be able to understand God in his fullest form. this is what the bible teaches. it can coincide with what you believe but it's very narrow and can be very misleading. i'm sure you've got great and profound truths and i'm sure God has revealed deep and powerful things to you... but the glory is given to God alone and not to humanity. if you've received powerful insight... it shouldn't be from a dream/vision or things of that sort... it should be through none other than his son Jesus Christ. and the only way that I come to know Christ is through the scripture. so all this about separating truths can be very misleading... but it reminds me of a Psalm that says "Deep calls to deep in the roar of your waterfalls; all your waves and breakers have swept over me." wouldn't it be much easier to understand that if there are two profound truths they would both speak with a similar sound and spirit?






wow i'm sure i busted a whole can of worms here so i'm expecting a crapload of bashers. so have at it... throw it to me i'm waiting.

angelica

deadnothingbetter wrote:

i'm sure you've had great spiritual experiences... i'm not discrediting them and i'm sure you've found meaning in them too even i might find meanings in them myself. see, i believe that we can have a one-on-one access with God... so don't get me wrong. but this came about eventually when I began to know who Christ is and what he did for humanity. all these "profound truths" you speak of came to our knowledge because of Christ. prior to Christ we didn't have access to God. the only way humanity had access was through the covenant that God had made with Abraham. but even yet, every year the priest had to go through this ritual to make an atonement for our sins... he was the mediator between God and man. when Christ came, he came to do away with that. now once we understand Christ's purpose for us and once we abide by his love and goodness will we be able to understand God in his fullest form. this is what the bible teaches. it can coincide with what you believe but it's very narrow and can be very misleading. i'm sure you've got great and profound truths and i'm sure God has revealed deep and powerful things to you... but the glory is given to God alone and not to humanity. if you've received powerful insight... it shouldn't be from a dream/vision or things of that sort... it should be through none other than his son Jesus Christ. and the only way that I come to know Christ is through the scripture. so all this about separating truths can be very misleading... but it reminds me of a Psalm that says "Deep calls to deep in the roar of your waterfalls; all your waves and breakers have swept over me." wouldn't it be much easier to understand that if there are two profound truths they would both speak with a similar sound and spirit?






wow i'm sure i busted a whole can of worms here so i'm expecting a crapload of bashers. so have at it... throw it to me i'm waiting.

They do speak with a similar sound and Spirit--the Spirit of God within each one of us. The difference is the individuals who experience the speaking--we're all so wonderfully and vastly diverse.

You are trying to fit me into your view, and really I can't fit because I'm perfectly designed for my own. I realize that underlying there are Universal Truths. And yet when we are seeing separation and "wrong" we are seeing our own conflict. We can know this because Universal Truth because it is everywhere and it's whole undivided Love. Anything that is not wholeness and love is our own illusions that we are seeing. I understand you would see this in terms of Christ, and of sin, because of your own unique view.

gue_barium

deadnothingbetter wrote:

i'm sure you've had great spiritual experiences... i'm not discrediting them and i'm sure you've found meaning in them too even i might find meanings in them myself. see, i believe that we can have a one-on-one access with Fuckie Suckie... so don't get me wrong. but this came about eventually when I began to know who Clitoris is and what she did for humanity. all these "profound truths" you speak of came to our knowledge because of Clitoris. prior to Clitoris we didn't have access to Fuckie Suckie. the only way humanity had access was through the covenant that Fuck had made with Masturbation. but even yet, every year the handjobber had to go through this ritual to make an atonement for our nobs... he was the mediator between vaseline and ejaculation. when Clitoris came, she came to do away with that. now once we understand Clitoris's purpose for us and once we abide by her love and goodness will we be able to understand erections in the fullest form. this is what the bible teaches. it can coincide with what you believe but it's very narrow and can be very misleading. i'm sure you've got great and profound truths and i'm sure Penis has revealed deep and powerful things to you... but the glory is given to Penishead alone and not to humanity. if you've received powerful insight... it shouldn't be from a dream/vision or things of that sort... it should be through none other than his son Jesus Testicles. and the only way that I come to know Testicles is through the scripture. so all this about separating truths can be very misleading... but it reminds me of my Palm that says "Deep calls to deep in the roar of your waterfalls; all your waves and breakers have swept over me." wouldn't it be much easier to understand that if there are two profound truths they would both speak with a similar sound and spirit?






wow i'm sure i busted a whole can of worms here so i'm expecting a crapload of bashers. so have at it... throw it to me i'm waiting.

I can't agree more!

Excellent post!