prayer

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  • Posts: 127
    Collin wrote:
    A question for the religious folks here; do you pray? And if so, is it like a personal outlet? Is it asking god for assistence and do you think he'll give it to you? Or do you by praying somehow renew or strengthen your faith automatically? I was wondering how the people here viewed prayer.

    The question came to me when I was reading in the atheist thread, where several christians said they pray for atheists. So what exactly is it you pray for? I'm just interested and I can understand if you think this is too personal and don't want to share...

    Also, I've always appreciated prayer before a meal, obviously I don't pray to god but I like a moment of silence before I eat... I'm very grateful too.

    I guess it's inevitable, this thread will turn into a "god sucks - no you suck" thread but I'm hoping I can get a few nice reasonable and respectful answer before it happens:)

    Interesting question Collin.... I don't consider myself very religious, in the proselytizing sense, but I do take my faith seriously. I do pray, it is the way I communicate with God. I communicate with God basically three things: 1) give Him thanks; 2) ask for forgiveness of my sins and 3) ask for his help in my daily activities. The latter could range from spiritual strength to help with dealing with life’s tests. A lot of times it is through repetitive Catholic prayers.

    I don’t expect to be granted everything I pray for. I ask for His will to be done, but not mine. Sometimes things don’t fall in place as I wish, but I’ve had times where later on in life things explain themselves in a unique way. Then I understand why things had to happen the way they did. And I give thanks.

    To those folks here that don’t believe in God, in any God. This can sound pretty silly. I know it does because I’ve been through a phase where I doubted all of this. But in the same fashion that I can’t explain that God exists, I can’t explain the feelings I’ve had where I felt His grace touch my heart that makes me a believer. And prayer is a big part of it.
  • Posts: 3,517
    pjfanatic4 wrote:
    Interesting question Collin.... I don't consider myself very religious, in the proselytizing sense, but I do take my faith seriously. I do pray, it is the way I communicate with God. I communicate with God basically three things: 1) give Him thanks; 2) ask for forgiveness of my sins and 3) ask for his help in my daily activities. The latter could range from spiritual strength to help with dealing with life’s tests. A lot of times it is through repetitive Catholic prayers.

    I don’t expect to be granted everything I pray for. I ask for His will to be done, but not mine. Sometimes things don’t fall in place as I wish, but I’ve had times where later on in life things explain themselves in a unique way. Then I understand why things had to happen the way they did. And I give thanks.

    To those folks here that don’t believe in God, in any God. This can sound pretty silly. I know it does because I’ve been through a phase where I doubted all of this. But in the same fashion that I can’t explain that God exists, I can’t explain the feelings I’ve had where I felt His grace touch my heart that makes me a believer. And prayer is a big part of it.

    very well put. thank you.
  • Posts: 10,560
    pjfanatic4 wrote:
    Interesting question Collin.... I don't consider myself very religious, in the proselytizing sense, but I do take my faith seriously. I do pray, it is the way I communicate with God. I communicate with God basically three things: 1) give Him thanks; 2) ask for forgiveness of my sins and 3) ask for his help in my daily activities. The latter could range from spiritual strength to help with dealing with life’s tests. A lot of times it is through repetitive Catholic prayers.

    I don’t expect to be granted everything I pray for. I ask for His will to be done, but not mine. Sometimes things don’t fall in place as I wish, but I’ve had times where later on in life things explain themselves in a unique way. Then I understand why things had to happen the way they did. And I give thanks.

    To those folks here that don’t believe in God, in any God. This can sound pretty silly. I know it does because I’ve been through a phase where I doubted all of this. But in the same fashion that I can’t explain that God exists, I can’t explain the feelings I’ve had where I felt His grace touch my heart that makes me a believer. And prayer is a big part of it.

    I can explain all that stuff without God.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I can explain all that stuff without God.

    NO NO NO

    the atheist thread is a few lines down. this is not the place. we've got a good thing going here so please let this one alone.
  • Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    NO NO NO

    the atheist thread is a few lines down. this is not the place. we've got a good thing going here so please let this one alone.

    If I do that, then I'm leaving you in an environment without opposition to your beliefs. That kind of environment only reinforces your existing beliefs, making it more difficult for you to scrutinize your own beliefs and become subjected to evidence to the contrary. But I suspect at your 'ripe' old age that you won't ever change anyway, so have at it. :p
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    If I do that, then I'm leaving you in an environment without opposition to your beliefs. That kind of environment only reinforces your existing beliefs, making it more difficult for you to scrutinize your own beliefs and become subjected to evidence to the contrary. But I suspect at your 'ripe' old age that you won't ever change anyway, so have at it. :p

    i'm glad you used that wording. first; my beliefs are none of your business. it's not your place to try to preach to nor convert me to your way of thinking. people believe what they believe and as you can see on this board; thier beliefs don't change. no matter how much evidence you think you have; nobody changes thier beliefs. you feel what you feel.
    the polite thing is to accept that this may not be a proper place for negativity. what the others feel is negativity.
  • Posts: 12,225
    See... here's the thing...
    I don't want you to pray for me... that makes YOU feel good about yourself. Same goes for asking forgiveness from God... how about seeking forgiveness from the person you have wronged? It's easy to ask forgiveness in a one way converstaion... you can assume that you are forgiven and be done with it. That, to me, is a sham.
    I don't like to admit fault... but, I do. It's just a bad character flaw of mine. and when I am the cause of something... I seek to remedy it because I don't like to be the one who causes problems. It's tough... especially, when your are as stubborn as I am... but, I do it. I don't ask God to patch up my screw ups... He is busy enough, running the Universe and all. It is up to ME to face the person, not God.
    And if I want someone to find peace... or enlightenment... I tell THEM. I don't bother God with petty shit i can handle myself. I'm saving up for the big stuff... when I really need someone other than the people around me to lean on.
    ...
    Oh... and I thank the kid at the taco joint for the tacos... he made them, not God.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    i'm glad you used that wording. first; my beliefs are none of your business. it's not your place to try to preach to nor convert me to your way of thinking. people believe what they believe and as you can see on this board; thier beliefs don't change. no matter how much evidence you think you have; nobody changes thier beliefs. you feel what you feel.
    the polite thing is to accept that this may not be a proper place for negativity. what the others feel is negativity.

    See, I don't care. You are stuck on your beliefs, that is fine, I don't expect you to change. But I'm not going to sit idly by while you spew out non-sense and convince those that are at a susceptible age (22-28) that your beleifs are grounded in anything but speculation and personal subjective experience. If you want to have a happy celebration of religiosity, then go to a church. This is a place for 'reasoned debate and discussion'.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 2,057
    Cosmo wrote:
    I don't want you to pray for me... that makes YOU feel good about yourself.
    Not directed at you Cosmo, but I don't understand this point of view. If someone prays for you, you are not affected in anyway and the person feels good about themselves. Why would you ever want to stop anyone from feeling good about themselves when it is at no one's expense?????

    I think some people just hate to see others being happy.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 2,057
    Ahnimus wrote:
    'reasoned debate and discussion'.
    How can it be reasoned when it's predetermined?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 10,560
    surferdude wrote:
    How can it be reasoned when it's predetermined?

    You don't grasp predeterminism.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 10,560
    They be clones, dudes in tight white striped shirts wearing cologne, cookie-cutter citizens gone wrong. It's like, think, I know that's why I gotta retreat, all these people they be gettin' to me, I need space to breath, swallow hate, inadversity you wouldn't believe. That's why that I am moving out. It's not about running away, I'll be gone in a day, if I wanted to say that I won't heed your advice to think twice, I'm moving in the middle of the night.

    "Ergonomics" by Optimus Rhyme
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 13,202
    im so glad we have ahnimus around here to protect us from our own thoughts :rolleyes: truly, he's a gift from god... here to lead us lost sheep out of the darkness.
  • Posts: 3,517
    Cosmo wrote:
    See... here's the thing...
    I don't want you to pray for me... that makes YOU feel good about yourself. Same goes for asking forgiveness from God... how about seeking forgiveness from the person you have wronged? It's easy to ask forgiveness in a one way converstaion... you can assume that you are forgiven and be done with it. That, to me, is a sham.
    I don't like to admit fault... but, I do. It's just a bad character flaw of mine. and when I am the cause of something... I seek to remedy it because I don't like to be the one who causes problems. It's tough... especially, when your are as stubborn as I am... but, I do it. I don't ask God to patch up my screw ups... He is busy enough, running the Universe and all. It is up to ME to face the person, not God.
    And if I want someone to find peace... or enlightenment... I tell THEM. I don't bother God with petty shit i can handle myself. I'm saving up for the big stuff... when I really need someone other than the people around me to lean on.
    ...
    Oh... and I thank the kid at the taco joint for the tacos... he made them, not God.

    from what i know; religion teaches to make the other person whole (ask thier forgiveness and make it right by them). if you steal from someone and get caught; you're expected to make restitution but you also ask forgiveness from the court. nobody walks into court and says give me the max. on the other hand; if you wrong someone; you also wrong yourself. this is what you seek forgiveness for.

    the kid at the taco joint only assembled the tacos. he didn't make the meat or the veggies. and you're thankful that you can buy the tacos when so many are starving. an accident or illness could quickly change circumstances to where you couldn't afford to buy those tacos.
  • Posts: 2,057
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You don't grasp predeterminism.
    In your world where science is God there can be no reasoned debate. Everything is motivated and understandable. So you either understand what's happening or you don't. There is no middle ground and certainly nothing to have a reasoned debate over. The motivation for a "reasoned dabte" would be a lack of understanding by one or both parties. And if there's lack of understanding by one or both parties you cannot have reasoned debate.

    It's all quite logical if your the logical sort.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 3,517
    soulsinging wrote:
    im so glad we have ahnimus around here to protect us from our own thoughts :rolleyes: truly, he's a gift from god... here to lead us lost sheep out of the darkness.

    i can't take his crap anymore. i think everyone on the board has told him how full of shit he is but he keeps it up. i'm waiting for him to tell us that God takes orders from him.

    bye ya'll
  • Posts: 12,225
    surferdude wrote:
    Not directed at you Cosmo, but I don't understand this point of view. If someone prays for you, you are not affected in anyway and the person feels good about themselves. Why would you ever want to stop anyone from feeling good about themselves when it is at no one's expense?????

    I think some people just hate to see others being happy.
    ...
    It's an excuse. If you are praying to make yourself feel good about yourself... what does that say about Prayer? It says Prayer is a selfish act. Prayer is not supposed to be about selfishness and making yourself feel good about yourself.. is it? Because if it is, then... yeah... I got the whole thing all wrong.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Posts: 3,517
    surferdude wrote:
    In your world where science is God there can be no reasoned debate. Everything is motivated and understandable. So you either understand what's happening or you don't. There is no middle ground and certainly nothing to have a reasoned debate over. The motivation for a "reasoned dabte" would be a lack of understanding by one or both parties. And if there's lack of understanding by one or both parties you cannot have reasoned debate.

    It's all quite logical if your the logical sort.

    if he's so right; where's the debate? we just sit and read the gospel according to ahnimus. that is not reasoned debate. and the arrogance that he has come to save the world from itself doesn't sit well anymore.
  • Posts: 3,517
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    It's an excuse. If you are praying to make yourself feel good about yourself... what does that say about Prayer? It says Prayer is a selfish act. Prayer is not supposed to be about selfishness and making yourself feel good about yourself.. is it? Because if it is, then... yeah... I got the whole thing all wrong.

    if i pray for you it's a gift. i care enough about you donate some of my time to think good thoughts about you and wish you well.
    does it bother you when people tell you to have a good day?
  • Posts: 10,560
    surferdude wrote:
    In your world where science is God there can be no reasoned debate. Everything is motivated and understandable. So you either understand what's happening or you don't. There is no middle ground and certainly nothing to have a reasoned debate over. The motivation for a "reasoned dabte" would be a lack of understanding by one or both parties. And if there's lack of understanding by one or both parties you cannot have reasoned debate.

    It's all quite logical if your the logical sort.

    Reality may be set in stone, I don't think anyone would deny that. Except maybe Angelica and Catefrances, maybe Onelongsong, or some others. But reason is how we interpret it, so certainly it's open for debate.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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