Let me see if I can explain that... hen you hurt someone, you sin against them, but also sin against God. There are several references of that in the Gospels. So when I pray for forgiveness, I'm asking God for forgiveness for sinning against Him.
I then, in order to show my repentance for those sins, would have to seek forgiveness to the people I hurt or make reparations, or to put it in another way, address/correct the damage I've done. If you don't do that, then you really aren't showing contrition and thus forgiveness from God can't be granted.
That's how I understand it works under Catholic faith.
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Thank you. I think that is probably the only point I have heard from that makes sense. If you screw someone... don't ask God to forgive you. Make things right to the person you screwed. And make your personal peace with God.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Yes, but there are very important lessons to learn from understanding this. Like identifying sub-conscious motivators for better deliberation. In practice you have free-will, but in reality, you don't.
I don't know, but it's never been of concern to me. I'm more interested in the way things are now.
Hehe, no. I just bought another book. I just keep reading. I won't stop and I doubt I will know everything. But I'll have a good idea.
Me being alive today would be seen by many as a miracle. But I won't get into that, just know that I don't. So it doesn't have to be a miracle, just a chance coincidence.
A,
Yes, you can learn valuable lessons from understanding this. Keep in mind that science/religion is not entirely exclusive from one another, at least imo. That's why this stuff interests me as well, I don't discard it completely. Also, finding out where we come from can help explain where we are. So I would expect you'd be interested in finding out how this world and the miracles of nature were created.
...
As for Jesus... I already know about Him. And I don't think He should be worrying about my bouts with depression... when there are millions of others in the world that don't have a thing to eat and risk their heads being chopped off any day now. If you beleive in the power of prayer... pray for them, not me. They need a hell of a lot more saving from suffering than I do.
Cosmo, you are putting Jesus in a human plane. Think that Jesus is your personal God, not a God that gets flooded with prayers in e-mail format (like in Bruce Almighty), He doesn't have to prioritize prayers and handle the most important. That's how a human with limited capabilities/resources views things.
Cosmo, you are putting Jesus in a human plane. Think that Jesus is your personal God, not a God that gets flooded with prayers in e-mail format (like in Bruce Almighty), He doesn't have to prioritize prayers and handle the most important. That's how a human with limited capabilities/resources views things.
...
You're right... I AM putting Jesus on a human plane. I take the lessons He taught and try to put them into practice on this human plane. I don't know if He is God... and I cannot and do not trust the humans that tell me He is because of the hypocracies they constantly show me. If these people know this... why don't they even bother to act in the manner that Jesus taught? Instead, they give me all this, "He died for my sins... I am forgiven" which is bascially a free license to treat others like shit and not pay any consequences.
And I don't burden God or Jesus with all of my baggage. When I'm in some deep, serious shit... I'll call on them. And just because I don't pray everyday to Them... They will both forsake me? I just don't see it working that way. God and Jesus represent benovolence, forgiveness and peace to me and niether will condemn me for not following the rules set by men in robes... that's how I see it working... from where I am... right now... at this time... occupying this space.
Who knows... maybe I'm way off base here and in the end... both God and Jesus are egomaniacs that expected me to worship them on a daily basis. I don't see them condemning me because I didn't trust Mankind and I had all these questions.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I don't know if He is God... and I cannot and do not trust the humans that tell me He is because of the hypocracies they constantly show me. If these people know this... why don't they even bother to act in the manner that Jesus taught? Instead, they give me all this, "He died for my sins... I am forgiven" which is bascially a free license to treat others like shit and not pay any consequences.
You're absolutely right, there are plenty of examples of hypocrisy within all religious institutions....
You bring up an interesting point with regards to salvation. Fundamentalists believe salvation is obtained just by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. No questions asked. Catholics believe Jesus redeemed us from our sins, but that we need to earn salvation by our actions on earth by following his example. So I can understand why you say this.
You're absolutely right, there are plenty of examples of hypocrisy within all religious institutions....
You'd be more accurate with there's plenty of hypocrisy in all people and institutions. I think religious institutions unfairly get singled out on the hypocrisy thing because they are open with what they beleive in.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
You'd be more accurate with there's plenty of hypocrisy in all people and institutions. I think religious institutions unfairly get singled out on the hypocrisy thing because they are open with what they beleive in.
You'd be more accurate with there's plenty of hypocrisy in all people and institutions. I think religious institutions unfairly get singled out on the hypocrisy thing because they are open with what they beleive in.
...
This is why I don't trust the Bible. It relys too much on Man. For me, it is not the truth... it is what the Church of 600 A.D. wanted us to hear.
And yeah... the same goes for governments... corporations... lawyers... hospitals... education... and every other institution where money is involved. You can't... well, at least I can't and don't trust them because the Men art the tops of those pyramids feed us the stuff they want us to know... not necessarily the truth.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
This is why I don't trust the Bible. It relys too much on Man. For me, it is not the truth... it is what the Church of 600 A.D. wanted us to hear.
And yeah... the same goes for governments... corporations... lawyers... hospitals... education... and every other institution where money is involved. You can't... well, at least I can't and don't trust them because the Men art the tops of those pyramids feed us the stuff they want us to know... not necessarily the truth.
Yeah that's where I stand...people forget the church used to be the government. It's a control measure established to form the basis of a civilized society.
some good rules came from it like the last 5 commandments, but that's about it for me.. Thousands of years of wordy laws and parables etc... = 5 lines of text. The rest is all window dressing to me.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
...
I'm not offended by someone praying for me. I'm just telling them that they can save their breath... instead of saving me. I don't need to be saved... when I do... offer me a hand, not a prayer.
...
As for Jesus... I already know about Him. And I don't think He should be worrying about my bouts with depression... when there are millions of others in the world that don't have a thing to eat and risk their heads being chopped off any day now. If you beleive in the power of prayer... pray for them, not me. They need a hell of a lot more saving from suffering than I do.
i hate to say it this way but you kinda sound like an egoist here. i mean, i hear what you're saying but it kinda makes you sound a bit proud of yourself. when you say something like he shouldn't be worrying about my bouts with depression makes you sound proud. kinda like my uncle when he was sick before he passed away. my father wanted to help him go to the restroom but my uncle said, "no, i could do it!" then he almost trips over. so my dad said, "just shut the hell up and let me help you." i mean, it was a kinda funny scenario but you get what i'm saying? i mean, i don't want to compare you to my dying uncle but the idea is still there.
anyways, it doesn't matter to me. if you don't want to be prayed to but really it's not any of your business if someone prays for you or not. hell, if i want to pray for somebody and they've told me not to i'll still pray for them. what the hell... it ain't like they can tell me what not to pray. and it ain't like it costs a lot of breath either.
speaking of prayer. here's a song about prayer.
Pray for Me
Here is where the road divides
Here is where we realize
The sculpting of the fathers great design
Thru time youve been a friend to me
But time is now the enemy
I wish we didnt have to say goodbye
But I know the road he chose for me
Is not the road he chose for you
So as we chase the dreams were after
Chorus:
Pray for me and Ill pray for you
Pray that we will keep the common ground
Wont you pray for me and Ill pray for you
And one day love will bring us back around again
Painted on our tapestry
We see the way it has to be
Weaving thru the laughter and the tears
But love will be the tie that binds us
To the time we leave behind us
Memories will be our souvenirs
And I know that thru it all
The hardest part of love is letting go
But theres a greater love that holds us
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
im not religious, but i pray daily. it's weird. it's not quite meditation (though it's similar to that), but at the same time im not quite sure who im praying to. i believe in a higher power, but im not quite sure how i would define it. it's certainly not god in the zeus/christian sense. more of a... i dont know. it's more like the force in star wars. when i pray, i pray to that... for guidance.
Dude. 25,000 posts exactly! Do you ever wonder if maybe you should find something else to do with your time?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
i hate to say it this way but you kinda sound like an egoist here. i mean, i hear what you're saying but it kinda makes you sound a bit proud of yourself. when you say something like he shouldn't be worrying about my bouts with depression makes you sound proud. kinda like my uncle when he was sick before he passed away. my father wanted to help him go to the restroom but my uncle said, "no, i could do it!" then he almost trips over. so my dad said, "just shut the hell up and let me help you." i mean, it was a kinda funny scenario but you get what i'm saying? i mean, i don't want to compare you to my dying uncle but the idea is still there.
anyways, it doesn't matter to me. if you don't want to be prayed to but really it's not any of your business if someone prays for you or not. hell, if i want to pray for somebody and they've told me not to i'll still pray for them. what the hell... it ain't like they can tell me what not to pray. and it ain't like it costs a lot of breath either.
EDIT...
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Whatever, bud. Think of me however you want. If you truely hate to say it... then don't.
My depression isn't debilitating... I just get the blues now and again. I'm not dying. I deal with it... it goes away and I'm fine. I don't need help taking a leak. If I did have a problem... I still think I wouldn't feel right about someone else aiming my wang at the toilet. Nothing to do with pride... I just don't want another dude handling my junk... it's just too weird to me. If you're a gal... sure... have at it. If I ever find myself in that situation... Depends.
And yeah... it is my business. If you really care for me... then, care for me. I'm just saying that I'm okay and don't need you to ask God to help me. I am fully capable of asking Him to help me when I need help. When I don't need help... I want Him to help those who really need it... and if I know they need help... I help them.
And if your prayers aren't worth your breath... as you have stated... then, seriously... what good are they to me? I'll accept prayers when I'm at that point of pain and/or dispair that I need them... but, right now... I'm okay.
From what you have said.... you validate my point that your prayers for me are said to comfort you... to Hell with me. Is that what prayers are all about? I think, not.
Finally... for my friends whose loved ones suffered real problems, such as breast cancer, I offer myself... for anything they need. I offer my hand and my love... what's wrong with that? And I do ask God to help them. Just as I ask God why He allows the suffering of so many people. If He CAN help them from their suffering... why doesn't He? I think it is up to us to help them.
I don't understand how my point of view and the way I handle it is seen as such a negative thing by other who really don't know a damn thing about me.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Whatever, bud. Think of me however you want. If you truely hate to say it... then don't.
My depression isn't debilitating... I just get the blues now and again. I'm not dying. I deal with it... it goes away and I'm fine. I don't need help taking a leak. If I did have a problem... I still think I wouldn't feel right about someone else aiming my wang at the toilet. Nothing to do with pride... I just don't want another dude handling my junk... it's just too weird to me. If you're a gal... sure... have at it. If I ever find myself in that situation... Depends.
And yeah... it is my business. If you really care for me... then, care for me. I'm just saying that I'm okay and don't need you to ask God to help me. I am fully capable of asking Him to help me when I need help. When I don't need help... I want Him to help those who really need it... and if I know they need help... I help them.
And if your prayers aren't worth your breath... as you have stated... then, seriously... what good are they to me? I'll accept prayers when I'm at that point of pain and/or dispair that I need them... but, right now... I'm okay.
From what you have said.... you validate my point that your prayers for me are said to comfort you... to Hell with me. Is that what prayers are all about? I think, not.
Finally... for my friends whose loved ones suffered real problems, such as breast cancer, I offer myself... for anything they need. I offer my hand and my love... what's wrong with that? And I do ask God to help them. Just as I ask God why He allows the suffering of so many people. If He CAN help them from their suffering... why doesn't He? I think it is up to us to help them.
I don't understand how my point of view and the way I handle it is seen as such a negative thing by other who really don't know a damn thing about me.
hahaha... you are so funny. btw, i'm a dude. so no i'm not gonna be dangling your ummm... nevermind. my dad was only trying to walk my uncle to the restroom. none of that other stuff.
also, it's not that a prayer isn't worth my breath. you're taking it out of context. all i'm saying is that it doesn't cost much to pray for someone... cause you originally stated that "no one should waste their breath praying for you" but whatever.
to me, it seems like you're making it more an issue than it really is. it's no biggie to me. if it's your thing why you don't want people to pray for you, well then it's your thing. whatever floats your boat. it's just kinda strange to me cause i've never heard of anybody feeling offended cause they were prayed for. it's a little silly, if you ask me. a prayer is like having someone in their minds because you care for them. heck, if someone prayed for me i'd feel greatful about it. but again it's your thing.
what you said in the last paragraph is pretty much what i'm saying too. no biggie. i mean, i've had very close relatives battle prostate cancer and tumors as well. i've suffered in as much the same pain as others... maybe not as much but i know what it feels like to hurt. so prayer is a big part of my life... i live with prayer and almost everyone i've met seem to be very acceptable of it. so i don't see your point-of-view negatively, it's just that i've never seen anyone get offended for being prayed to.
but in the case of your depression... i'd be your friend instead and hear you out if you wanted someone to listen to you.... or then maybe not cause you'd probably feel offended about it too. hell, you just never know who you're going to offend these days.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
hahaha... you are so funny. btw, i'm a dude. so no i'm not gonna be dangling your ummm... nevermind. my dad was only trying to walk my uncle to the restroom. none of that other stuff.
also, it's not that a prayer isn't worth my breath. you're taking it out of context. all i'm saying is that it doesn't cost much to pray for someone... cause you originally stated that "no one should waste their breath praying for you" but whatever.
to me, it seems like you're making it more an issue than it really is. it's no biggie to me. if it's your thing why you don't want people to pray for you, well then it's your thing. whatever floats your boat. it's just kinda strange to me cause i've never heard of anybody feeling offended cause they were prayed for. it's a little silly, if you ask me. a prayer is like having someone in their minds because you care for them. heck, if someone prayed for me i'd feel greatful about it. but again it's your thing.
what you said in the last paragraph is pretty much what i'm saying too. no biggie. i mean, i've had very close relatives battle prostate cancer and tumors as well. i've suffered in as much the same pain as others... maybe not as much but i know what it feels like to hurt. so prayer is a big part of my life... i live with prayer and almost everyone i've met seem to be very acceptable of it. so i don't see your point-of-view negatively, it's just that i've never seen anyone get offended for being prayed to.
but in the case of your depression... i'd be your friend instead and hear you out if you wanted someone to listen to you.... or then maybe not cause you'd probably feel offended about it too. hell, you just never know who you're going to offend these days.
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I'm not offended... never said it. That's all you... being defensive.
I'm just making the point that prayer helps the person doing the praying more than the person you are praying for. And you have illustrated my point, precisely. If you're going to do something... do it big... pay their mortgage for a month... or something that will actually help. Otherwise, your prayers are simply lip service to ease yourself.
Thanx for proving my point.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I'm not offended... never said it. That's all you... being defensive.
I'm just making the point that prayer helps the person doing the praying more than the person you are praying for. And you have illustrated my point, precisely. If you're going to do something... do it big... pay their mortgage for a month... or something that will actually help. Otherwise, your prayers are simply lip service to ease yourself.
Thanx for proving my point.
proving your point????? i think you've got me all wrong. i wasn't trying to argue with you. but anyways... i guess.
also, i would like to add, giving something BIG as you said... would sum up to the same degree of "feeling good about yourself" in some way. there's just really no argument here. so i don't see what the big deal is. from the tone of your response it seems to me like you really are offended.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
proving your point????? i think you've got me all wrong. i wasn't trying to argue with you. but anyways... i guess.
also, i would like to add, giving something BIG as you said... would sum up to the same degree of "feeling good about yourself" in some way. there's just really no argument here. so i don't see what the big deal is.
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"It doesn't cost much to pray for someone" Those are YOUR words, not mine.
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That is precicely the point i am making... it doesn't matter to you... why should it matter to me?
I DO believe that prayers SHOULD cost... it SHOULD weigh heavy... and it SHOULD matter. That's why I don't want little prayer Post-Its... if you feel that bad for me... send me a card with your sentiments or drop me a line. Speaking to your god to save me doesn't do squat... especilly if it's no big deal to you.
That's all i am saying.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You are supposed to chop up disobedient women and children and splash their blood against an altar, or else God won't answer any of your prayers.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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"It doesn't cost much to pray for someone" Those are YOUR words, not mine.
...
That is precicely the point i am making... it doesn't matter to you... why should it matter to me?
I DO believe that prayers SHOULD cost... it SHOULD weigh heavy... and it SHOULD matter. That's why I don't want little prayer Post-Its... if you feel that bad for me... send me a card with your sentiments or drop me a line. Speaking to your god to save me doesn't do squat... especilly if it's no big deal to you.
That's all i am saying.
ok, i guess. i still don't see what the issue is.
i mean, you make it sound like i've never done good for people. i was raised to do good and help others in need. when the rita hurricanes hit houston and the gulf coast we had about 50 people in our home and most were strangers. and we lived in a trailer home... a very humble place. my parents were never any rich but they taught me how to be good to people. but of course, i never mention these things because i don't want to say, "OH LOOK AT ME i'm such a great person." but still your making it a bigger deal than what it is.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
ok, i guess. i still don't see what the issue is.
i mean, you make it sound like i've never done good for people. i was raised to do good and help others in need. when the rita hurricanes hit houston and the gulf coast we had about 50 people in our home and most were strangers. and we lived in a trailer home... a very humble place. my parents were never any rich but they taught me how to be good to people. but of course, i never mention these things because i don't want to say, "OH LOOK AT ME i'm such a great person." but still your making it a bigger deal than what it is.
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Prayer does help... the person doing the praying. Again... that is all I'm saying.
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Housing 50 people is DOING something... not just praying they find shelter. HUGE difference. Again, you validate my point... DO something to help them other than asking God to do it for you.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Prayer does help... the person doing the praying. Again... that is all I'm saying.
...
Housing 50 people is DOING something... not just praying they find shelter. HUGE difference. Again, you validate my point... DO something to help them other than asking God to do it for you.
ok, i see what you're saying. it sounded more like you were saying, "prayer doesn't do anything. it's just an excuse for doing something good rather than acting upon it." i agree with you but prayer, at least to me, isn't about just making myself feel good. prayer can take on a different variety of meanings. like i said, it's an important part of my life. and it's prayer that gives me the compassion and wisdom to do good.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
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So... without prayer... he lacks strength, compassion and dedication?
Possibly. Who's to say. I sure would feel dumb telling him or her that it doesn't work when they're out there doing it. Just like I don't try to seperate MLK and his achievements from his belief in God and praying.
It may not work for you but it obviously does for others.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
...
So... without prayer... he lacks strength, compassion and dedication?
at least for me, if i didn't have any prayer i wouldn't always make the right choices all the time. i'm sure goodness is already in everyone's heart as i'm sure it's in you. but prayer gives me the strength to act upon certain things that might be too difficult to overcome.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Personally for me, I believe that faith in what-so-ever or whom-ever you put it in or upon works it gives hope and this I believe is necessary for most human beings thin of it this way we are theonly beings oin the earth that posess the ability to place hope or faith in any one thing living, past, or present. That says a bit of something I believe. but then again that's just me.!! :-D
Personally for me, I believe that faith in what-so-ever or whom-ever you put it in or upon works it gives hope and this I believe is necessary for most human beings thin of it this way we are theonly beings oin the earth that posess the ability to place hope or faith in any one thing living, past, or present. That says a bit of something I believe. but then again that's just me.!! :-D or deceased even.. good lord this thread could go on forever I think.
Possibly. Who's to say. I sure would feel dumb telling him or her that it doesn't work when they're out there doing it. Just like I don't try to seperate MLK and his achievements from his belief in God and praying.
It may not work for you but it obviously does for others.
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Which is what I have been saying all along... you don't need to pray for me... I'm okay. You don't need to save me... I am not in harm's way. I do not need to be forgiven... I have not done anything wrong.
Send your prayers to those who need it.
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And how many times have I said... my beliefs are mine... personal to me? My beliefs do not apply to anyone else and I do not expect anyone else to follow me... just as your beliefs do not apply to me.
Pray all you want, if it makes you feel better... which is exactly my point... to make YOU feel better.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I pray for everything and everyone. I don't ask for God to give me specific things, but instead I just pray for happiness and the wisdom to realize when He's putting an opportunity in front of me.
Mostly I pray for the strength to make it through the day, for him to protect the ones I love (family, friends, pets) and then of course forgiveness.
Comments
Thank you. I think that is probably the only point I have heard from that makes sense. If you screw someone... don't ask God to forgive you. Make things right to the person you screwed. And make your personal peace with God.
Hail, Hail!!!
A,
Yes, you can learn valuable lessons from understanding this. Keep in mind that science/religion is not entirely exclusive from one another, at least imo. That's why this stuff interests me as well, I don't discard it completely. Also, finding out where we come from can help explain where we are. So I would expect you'd be interested in finding out how this world and the miracles of nature were created.
Cosmo, you are putting Jesus in a human plane. Think that Jesus is your personal God, not a God that gets flooded with prayers in e-mail format (like in Bruce Almighty), He doesn't have to prioritize prayers and handle the most important. That's how a human with limited capabilities/resources views things.
You're right... I AM putting Jesus on a human plane. I take the lessons He taught and try to put them into practice on this human plane. I don't know if He is God... and I cannot and do not trust the humans that tell me He is because of the hypocracies they constantly show me. If these people know this... why don't they even bother to act in the manner that Jesus taught? Instead, they give me all this, "He died for my sins... I am forgiven" which is bascially a free license to treat others like shit and not pay any consequences.
And I don't burden God or Jesus with all of my baggage. When I'm in some deep, serious shit... I'll call on them. And just because I don't pray everyday to Them... They will both forsake me? I just don't see it working that way. God and Jesus represent benovolence, forgiveness and peace to me and niether will condemn me for not following the rules set by men in robes... that's how I see it working... from where I am... right now... at this time... occupying this space.
Who knows... maybe I'm way off base here and in the end... both God and Jesus are egomaniacs that expected me to worship them on a daily basis. I don't see them condemning me because I didn't trust Mankind and I had all these questions.
Hail, Hail!!!
You're absolutely right, there are plenty of examples of hypocrisy within all religious institutions....
You bring up an interesting point with regards to salvation. Fundamentalists believe salvation is obtained just by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. No questions asked. Catholics believe Jesus redeemed us from our sins, but that we need to earn salvation by our actions on earth by following his example. So I can understand why you say this.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Good point.
This is why I don't trust the Bible. It relys too much on Man. For me, it is not the truth... it is what the Church of 600 A.D. wanted us to hear.
And yeah... the same goes for governments... corporations... lawyers... hospitals... education... and every other institution where money is involved. You can't... well, at least I can't and don't trust them because the Men art the tops of those pyramids feed us the stuff they want us to know... not necessarily the truth.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yeah that's where I stand...people forget the church used to be the government. It's a control measure established to form the basis of a civilized society.
some good rules came from it like the last 5 commandments, but that's about it for me.. Thousands of years of wordy laws and parables etc... = 5 lines of text. The rest is all window dressing to me.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
anyways, it doesn't matter to me. if you don't want to be prayed to but really it's not any of your business if someone prays for you or not. hell, if i want to pray for somebody and they've told me not to i'll still pray for them. what the hell... it ain't like they can tell me what not to pray. and it ain't like it costs a lot of breath either.
speaking of prayer. here's a song about prayer.
Pray for Me
Here is where the road divides
Here is where we realize
The sculpting of the fathers great design
Thru time youve been a friend to me
But time is now the enemy
I wish we didnt have to say goodbye
But I know the road he chose for me
Is not the road he chose for you
So as we chase the dreams were after
Chorus:
Pray for me and Ill pray for you
Pray that we will keep the common ground
Wont you pray for me and Ill pray for you
And one day love will bring us back around again
Painted on our tapestry
We see the way it has to be
Weaving thru the laughter and the tears
But love will be the tie that binds us
To the time we leave behind us
Memories will be our souvenirs
And I know that thru it all
The hardest part of love is letting go
But theres a greater love that holds us
Dude. 25,000 posts exactly! Do you ever wonder if maybe you should find something else to do with your time?
-C Addison
Whatever, bud. Think of me however you want. If you truely hate to say it... then don't.
My depression isn't debilitating... I just get the blues now and again. I'm not dying. I deal with it... it goes away and I'm fine. I don't need help taking a leak. If I did have a problem... I still think I wouldn't feel right about someone else aiming my wang at the toilet. Nothing to do with pride... I just don't want another dude handling my junk... it's just too weird to me. If you're a gal... sure... have at it. If I ever find myself in that situation... Depends.
And yeah... it is my business. If you really care for me... then, care for me. I'm just saying that I'm okay and don't need you to ask God to help me. I am fully capable of asking Him to help me when I need help. When I don't need help... I want Him to help those who really need it... and if I know they need help... I help them.
And if your prayers aren't worth your breath... as you have stated... then, seriously... what good are they to me? I'll accept prayers when I'm at that point of pain and/or dispair that I need them... but, right now... I'm okay.
From what you have said.... you validate my point that your prayers for me are said to comfort you... to Hell with me. Is that what prayers are all about? I think, not.
Finally... for my friends whose loved ones suffered real problems, such as breast cancer, I offer myself... for anything they need. I offer my hand and my love... what's wrong with that? And I do ask God to help them. Just as I ask God why He allows the suffering of so many people. If He CAN help them from their suffering... why doesn't He? I think it is up to us to help them.
I don't understand how my point of view and the way I handle it is seen as such a negative thing by other who really don't know a damn thing about me.
Hail, Hail!!!
also, it's not that a prayer isn't worth my breath. you're taking it out of context. all i'm saying is that it doesn't cost much to pray for someone... cause you originally stated that "no one should waste their breath praying for you" but whatever.
to me, it seems like you're making it more an issue than it really is. it's no biggie to me. if it's your thing why you don't want people to pray for you, well then it's your thing. whatever floats your boat. it's just kinda strange to me cause i've never heard of anybody feeling offended cause they were prayed for. it's a little silly, if you ask me. a prayer is like having someone in their minds because you care for them. heck, if someone prayed for me i'd feel greatful about it. but again it's your thing.
what you said in the last paragraph is pretty much what i'm saying too. no biggie. i mean, i've had very close relatives battle prostate cancer and tumors as well. i've suffered in as much the same pain as others... maybe not as much but i know what it feels like to hurt. so prayer is a big part of my life... i live with prayer and almost everyone i've met seem to be very acceptable of it. so i don't see your point-of-view negatively, it's just that i've never seen anyone get offended for being prayed to.
but in the case of your depression... i'd be your friend instead and hear you out if you wanted someone to listen to you.... or then maybe not cause you'd probably feel offended about it too. hell, you just never know who you're going to offend these days.
I'm not offended... never said it. That's all you... being defensive.
I'm just making the point that prayer helps the person doing the praying more than the person you are praying for. And you have illustrated my point, precisely. If you're going to do something... do it big... pay their mortgage for a month... or something that will actually help. Otherwise, your prayers are simply lip service to ease yourself.
Thanx for proving my point.
Hail, Hail!!!
also, i would like to add, giving something BIG as you said... would sum up to the same degree of "feeling good about yourself" in some way. there's just really no argument here. so i don't see what the big deal is. from the tone of your response it seems to me like you really are offended.
"It doesn't cost much to pray for someone" Those are YOUR words, not mine.
...
That is precicely the point i am making... it doesn't matter to you... why should it matter to me?
I DO believe that prayers SHOULD cost... it SHOULD weigh heavy... and it SHOULD matter. That's why I don't want little prayer Post-Its... if you feel that bad for me... send me a card with your sentiments or drop me a line. Speaking to your god to save me doesn't do squat... especilly if it's no big deal to you.
That's all i am saying.
Hail, Hail!!!
i mean, you make it sound like i've never done good for people. i was raised to do good and help others in need. when the rita hurricanes hit houston and the gulf coast we had about 50 people in our home and most were strangers. and we lived in a trailer home... a very humble place. my parents were never any rich but they taught me how to be good to people. but of course, i never mention these things because i don't want to say, "OH LOOK AT ME i'm such a great person." but still your making it a bigger deal than what it is.
Prayer does help... the person doing the praying. Again... that is all I'm saying.
...
Housing 50 people is DOING something... not just praying they find shelter. HUGE difference. Again, you validate my point... DO something to help them other than asking God to do it for you.
Hail, Hail!!!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
So... without prayer... he lacks strength, compassion and dedication?
Hail, Hail!!!
It may not work for you but it obviously does for others.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Which is what I have been saying all along... you don't need to pray for me... I'm okay. You don't need to save me... I am not in harm's way. I do not need to be forgiven... I have not done anything wrong.
Send your prayers to those who need it.
...
And how many times have I said... my beliefs are mine... personal to me? My beliefs do not apply to anyone else and I do not expect anyone else to follow me... just as your beliefs do not apply to me.
Pray all you want, if it makes you feel better... which is exactly my point... to make YOU feel better.
Hail, Hail!!!
Mostly I pray for the strength to make it through the day, for him to protect the ones I love (family, friends, pets) and then of course forgiveness.