Scientism

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  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeanie wrote:
    ***Jeanie steps forward***
    ME!! ME!!! ME!!! :D Right?? ;)

    have i been able to make something in your house move from accross the earth?
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    onelongsong wrote:
    i like the guy too. he debates well.

    yes i do a lot of over thinking myself. but i think sometimes you need to push something to the edge to really get to the bottom of it.
    How do you define "bottom"?

    hehee.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • lucylespian
    lucylespian Posts: 2,403
    onelongsong wrote:
    science is the study of [whatever].
    the world was first thought to be round; BUT IT COULD NOT BE PROVEN. thus; it was percieved as flat until more evidence could be produced.
    that is the essence of science.

    i do agree with the rest. unless science can repeatedly reproduce something.....it cannot explain it.


    NO. science is not just the study of (whatever). It's simplistic definitions like that that lead to bad science, poor science, or crap masquerading as science, and trying to hijack the credibility of legitimate science.
    Crap like "Creatoin Science". WE are studying how the Earth was formed according to the Bible, thereofre we are doing science, according to your definition. Not so !!!!!

    Copernicus produced a vild mathm,etical proof that teh Earth was round, it was just that no-one else could follow it at teh tijme. Hell, I couldn't follow his proof today, but that does not mean it was inadequate. The inadequacy is mine !!!
    Music is not a competetion.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Rats of Multa wrote:
    "Due to the wave-particle duality of matter, light simultaneously exhibits properties of both waves and particles. The precise nature of light is one of the key questions of modern physics."--Wikipedia.

    see, science cant even grasp the basis for the physical realm that we see and "know", let alone the metaphysical aspects which allow us to think and "know",.....

    What metaphysical aspects? There is no evidence of metaphysics.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Rats of Multa wrote:
    no, science tries to go beneath human perception to objective reality, but reality is not entirely objective -- life exists, and therein emotions exist,.. and although emotions may have their roots in the intercourse of physical matter, their ends are not totally physical [hence the existence of the term "metaphysical"], and therefore science is endlessly trumped by the constant enquires of philosophy.

    besides: what is a photon?

    :D I like you!! :D

    Well said. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    lucylespian wrote:
    A photon is a quantum of energy, more accurately.

    I don't think it is simple to see whether I have a liberal or conservative bias. You could not tell my gender. I am very liberal on many issues, but extremely conservative on, for example, gun control. I used to think you were a right wing Christian nutter, but many of your posts over the last few days have had a much more open-minded flavour.
    When people tell me that can can look inot their bodies and activate mystical systems, yes, my scientific cynicism gland kicks into overdrive. That's because, when you remove observer and reporting bias, there is no discernible effect or activation of anything. If you were to tell me that you can see my aura, or activate my inner healing, or re-pattern my DNA ( people around here actually claim that), that is ENTIRELY depenendent on your perception and your bias.
    With regards to mental illness, a PET scanner can show whihc pasrtts of the brain are not functioning correctly, to the point that if we could get hold of Jesus' brain, we could settle the schizophrenia question. That is not a bias, that is a reproducible clinically useful and relevant test.
    You've got the wrong person on the photon issue.

    Glad to hear your opinon on this other stuff.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    have i been able to make something in your house move from accross the earth?

    Oh yeah, ask metsfan, I'm a fucking psychic.

    Ask Angelica, I could pick that guy out in a gabbly chat under any alias.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Rats of Multa
    Rats of Multa Posts: 250
    Ahnimus wrote:
    What metaphysical aspects? There is no evidence of metaphysics.

    ha. try telling that to god.
    we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
    to dust i guess,
    forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    angelica wrote:
    I see how the way you weave together your perceptions of me tells you this.

    I don't ask scientists to believe my views, and I don't take their views on as my own. I don't see the hypocrisy.

    I don't ask you to take on my worldview; I don't take on your worldview.

    As far as objective study, I fully accept science, within it's parameters, done by fallible humans with human perception as the best thing we have going. In terms of the non-objective realms, it's free game and I respect and embrace all views.

    Excellent!! Well said girl! :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Jeanie wrote:
    :D I like you!! :D

    Well said. :)
    I like him too. ;):D
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    :D I like you!! :D

    Well said. :)

    I swear Jeanie, 90% of your posts are "I like you" "Your cool" and while it's very empowering, and I'm sure you make great friends. Can you like PM them or something? I've said this to people that say similar things about me, this is a forum for reasoned debate, it's not Lavalife and liking someone doesn't give any more credibility to what they are saying.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Jeanie wrote:
    Excellent!! Well said girl! :)
    Thanks, good friend! :)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Rats of Multa wrote:
    ha. try telling that to god.

    There is no God.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Thanks, good friend! :)

    Get a room. Seriously.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Rats of Multa
    Rats of Multa Posts: 250
    Ahnimus wrote:
    There is no God.


    then who do you think you are?
    we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
    to dust i guess,
    forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    So, anyway. So far, I have my defintion of Scientism and the Wikipedia defintion. Everyone else is doing the carebear stare or trying to trash science or religion. Anyone feeling like addressing the topic?

    Oh, I forgot. Angelica thinks scientism is anything that doesn't agree with her perspective. Anyone else?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Get a room. Seriously.
    I just LOVE the philosophers on this board. :) They need to be shared with the whole board, not just me in a room! :D
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Rats of Multa wrote:
    then who do you think you are?

    I'm just another dude, in just another city
    at just another job, makin' just a bit of money

    I'm also the voice of reason. The prophet of science. I heal the sick with defribilators and penacillin. I predict the future and read thoughts with a deterministic view of reality.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • lucylespian
    lucylespian Posts: 2,403
    Ahnimus wrote:
    What is your point? It's a particle of light, that's what it says. "the photon is the elementary particle". "and makes up all forms of light". Did you want the full QM explanation of photons? Why did you ask what it is?

    What is wave-particle duality?

    In physics and chemistry, wave-particle duality holds that all objects in our universe exhibit properties of both waves and of particles.[wikipedia]

    This applies to consciousness, how? If something is a wave, what does that imply? If you drop a stone in a puddle with the exact same conditions every time, will it blow up the world one time? No. The waves will behave relatively the same way every time. I don't know where you people get this perception that QM implies anything about our lives. You can't affect the way things behave with your mind, you can only affect the way you interpret them.



    me either, because i trust my perception.
    [/quote]


    QM and understanding od wave/particle duality have nothing to do wioht tthis discussion.
    But it's exactly becasue I share your view that my thoughts are really just teh bubbling of a biochemical stew, that I don't trust my perception. Without being psychotic, I have experienced incorrect perceptiona number of times, ususalyy when sleep deprived. It is also why I don't accept that just becasuse someone is convinced of something, that is has to be true.
    Music is not a competetion.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    I just LOVE the philosophers on this board. :) They need to be shared with the whole board, not just me in a room! :D

    No, I mean the cabbage patch love triangle you got going on here.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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