I got you on behaviorism but to me there is no way you can predict how most people will act outside of a controlled environment. Skinner did the things with shocks, right, and soon the picking of the less painful item became predictable. But that's a controlled experiment. There may be a science devoted to it but how a person will act is influenced by so many other factors that we will not know about, their past experiences, their current mood, their perception of the event at hand.
I don't know, I'm pretty damn good at predicting behavior.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
And while behaviourism had hegemony in the early parts of the 1900s with BF Skinner and the gang, it has long since ceased to be the end-all explanation of human behaviour. Mostly because of the reasons people point out in the thread. Behaviourism works fine within it's own limited scope. But it is far from providing anything close to a full explanation on the subject.
Which is why in Psychology 101 we learn about Skinner, behaviourism and conditioning, but we move on to other theories and fields within psychology which is more "up to date". Behaviourism is to psychology what Newtonian physics are to physics. You get great results and clear rules given certain conditions, but a whole new world opens up the moment it is clear that the conditions may be insufficient to explain the world at large.
Peace
Dan
Thanks for sharing that Dan. It's interesting to know.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't know, I'm pretty damn good at predicting behavior.
lol. Yeah sometimes unfortunately I watch the news and nothing really shocks me anymore.
I guess an example of this for me is when the guy lept on the man and saved him from the subway in New York. Here is a guy who has a family and everything to lose and he makes a split decision to jump and save a stranger while the train goes over him. Now, I doubt anybody could have predicted that behavior.
"She knows there is no success like failure
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
Check that. This shocked me, and very unpredictable.
no no gue barium's comment about making sweet manlove with ahnimus was not unpredictable. it stood to reason someone would try and throw in what they thought was an unpredictable statement. thus rendering the unpredictable predictable.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
no no gue barium's comment about making sweet manlove with ahnimus was not unpredictable. it stood to reason someone would try and throw in what they thought was an unpredictable statement. thus rendering the unpredictable predictable.
Gotcha . Learning more and more about the peeps on the board. :P
"She knows there is no success like failure
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
Here is something predictable. It's lunchtime, I'm off to eat some dead murdered animal.
I would hope it's dead. "dead-murdered-eat-lunchtime". That's an unpredicted concept. I'll have to think about this. So far all I've got is Jodie Foster.
Sorry kids but I'm audi!! (I do soooo love Clueless! )
I'll have to come back to this later, and a real shame given that it was just getting excitin'!!
So angelica you keep that room warm for me would you darlin?
And mets love, bugger off with the camera!! HAVE I TAUGHT YOU NOTHING??
gue, lucy, cate, anybody else I've missed, be good to see you all later, this is a very interesting conversation, and I think one of the pits better efforts, although I haven't checked the vagina monologues today!!
Anhnimus, you just keep on ignoring me if that's what gets you through, but I have to say I'm a bit disappointed in you. I FEEL like you've observed, rationalized, and decided that my opinion is not worthy of your response. Of course as lucy said this is a message board so maybe, I've misinterpreted that. BUT it would be nice to hear more discussion Ryan.
OLS, you rock! And hope you are feeling better soon. AND of course I'm sending you all my positive energy, imagination and love as usual. Take care.
no no gue barium's comment about making sweet manlove with ahnimus was not unpredictable. it stood to reason someone would try and throw in what they thought was an unpredictable statement. thus rendering the unpredictable predictable.
"Stood to Reason" and "predictiblity" are not one in the same.
perhaps on a broad generalised scale, yes. but individually, not so much.
As much as predicting the weather.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't think it is simple to see whether I have a liberal or conservative bias. You could not tell my gender. I am very liberal on many issues, but extremely conservative on, for example, gun control. I used to think you were a right wing Christian nutter, but many of your posts over the last few days have had a much more open-minded flavour.
When people tell me that can can look inot their bodies and activate mystical systems, yes, my scientific cynicism gland kicks into overdrive. That's because, when you remove observer and reporting bias, there is no discernible effect or activation of anything. If you were to tell me that you can see my aura, or activate my inner healing, or re-pattern my DNA ( people around here actually claim that), that is ENTIRELY depenendent on your perception and your bias.
With regards to mental illness, a PET scanner can show whihc pasrtts of the brain are not functioning correctly, to the point that if we could get hold of Jesus' brain, we could settle the schizophrenia question. That is not a bias, that is a reproducible clinically useful and relevant test.
Okay, I'm going through the thread and I wanted to respond to a few things here.
I fully agree that it's not scientifically proven that my mystical experiences are real. You probably know that when you're feeling deep lasting love for someone, that subjective experience of love cannot be proven, and yet it is very real to you, none the less. These types of experiences can enliven us and inspire us in our lives. I'm not attempting to pass my experiences off as objective proof, nor as "scientific". I am merely sharing my experiences as they occurred. I also relate my ongoing mystical experiences directly to my healing that occurred step by step.
As far as a brain "not-functioning correctly", first it's interesting that it seems it's assumed that because a brain is not functioning normally that it means it's not functioning correctly. Second of all, I agree, you could prove an "abnormal" brain scan if it in fact existed in this case. I would accept that as factual evidence of an abnormal brainscan. I could see that such a brainscan is consistant to the diagnosis of schizophrenia. What I call as bias is a personal opinion that believes Jesus had schizophrenia, which is not based on proof at all, but rather on personal opinion, coming from a personal, not objective, perspective. Particularly in regards to the mentally ill, who can tend to have poor ego definition, and can be heightened in their perception of what the medical profession assumes of them, I find such preconceptions concerning. I personally recall the days when I internalized the derogatory views people held of me. It was interactive. The mental health professionals are a part of the equation they become involved with. They are not passive, objective, observers. They are quite predisposed towards seeing certain potential outcomes, depending on which discipline they are a part of, thereby directly affecting the patient.
Edit: I, nor the numerous mental health patients I've known, were given brain scans as a part of diagnosis.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Okay, I'm going through the thread and I wanted to respond to a few things here.
I fully agree that it's not scientifically proven that my mystical experiences are real. You probably know that when you're feeling deep lasting love for someone, that subjective experience of love cannot be proven, and yet it is very real to you, none the less. These types of experiences can enliven us and inspire us in our lives. I'm not attempting to pass my experiences off as objective proof, nor as "scientific". I am merely sharing my experiences as they occurred. I also relate my ongoing mystical experiences directly to my healing that occurred step by step.
As far as a brain "not-functioning correctly", first it's interesting that it seems it's assumed that because a brain is not functioning normally that it means it's not functioning correctly. Second of all, I agree, you could prove an "abnormal" brain scan if it in fact existed in this case. I would accept that as factual evidence of an abnormal brainscan. I could see that such a brainscan is consistant to the diagnosis of schizophrenia. What I call as bias is a personal opinion that believes Jesus had schizophrenia, which is not based on proof at all, but rather on personal opinion, coming from a personal, not objective, perspective. Particularly in regards to the mentally ill, who can tend to have poor ego definition, and can be heightened in their perception of what the medical profession assumes of them, I find such preconceptions concerning. I personally recall the days when I internalized the derogatory views people held of me. It was interactive. The mental health professionals are a part of the equation they become involved with. They are not passive, objective, observers. They are quite predisposed towards seeing certain potential outcomes, depending on which discipline they are a part of, thereby directly affecting the patient.
Edit: I, nor the numerous mental health patients I've known, were given brain scans as a part of diagnosis.
One dead chicken later.....................
True, I have no objective proof that Jesus had schizophrenia. I am grateful that you have acknowledged that I can express the view though, without interptring it as a derogatory statement. I can also understand why you assumed it was though, as it so often is.
PET scans are not often used as a diagnostic tool in mental health. The diaagnosis is nearly always made on a history given by the patient and others. PET scans CAN diagnose schizophrenia though, in a dynamic way, showing in real time what neurotransmitters are active in what brain parts. "Normality" is established in a comparative way, comparing to "normal" control subjects, not in an absolute sense.
I would hope that your MH professional interact with you, they would be useless if too detached. AS far as having expectations, that happens at 2 levels. First, experiences teach what will PROBABLY, as opposed to certainly happen with people. Probabilities apply to populations, though, not individuals. It is a mistake to apply probailies to indivduals.
Secondly, people want to know what is going to happen, so a best estimate prognosis is given. This is always going to be inaccurate at least to some degree. The deiscrepancy is then held up as proof that doctors are idiots, and can't tell peple what is going to happen to them. Well, don't ask next time !!!!!
True, I have no objective proof that Jesus had schizophrenia. I am grateful that you have acknowledged that I can express the view though, without interptring it as a derogatory statement. I can also understand why you assumed it was though, as it so often is.
PET scans are not often used as a diagnostic tool in mental health. The diaagnosis is nearly always made on a history given by the patient and others. PET scans CAN diagnose schizophrenia though, in a dynamic way, showing in real time what neurotransmitters are active in what brain parts. "Normality" is established in a comparative way, comparing to "normal" control subjects, not in an absolute sense.
I would hope that your MH professional interact with you, they would be useless if too detached. AS far as having expectations, that happens at 2 levels. First, experiences teach what will PROBABLY, as opposed to certainly happen with people. Probabilities apply to populations, though, not individuals. It is a mistake to apply probailies to indivduals.
Secondly, people want to know what is going to happen, so a best estimate prognosis is given. This is always going to be inaccurate at least to some degree. The deiscrepancy is then held up as proof that doctors are idiots, and can't tell peple what is going to happen to them. Well, don't ask next time !!!!!
I think you need to post here more often. Only my opinion, and as long as you're comfortable. I have this opinion based on the time and wisdom that went into this post of yours.
I think you need to post here more often. Only my opinion, and as long as you're comfortable. I have this opinion based on the time and wisdom that went into this post of yours.
Thank you, I fogot to mention that it is based on the history that I make the diagnosis of schizophrenia in Jesus, rather than a physical examinatoin or lab test, which is patently impossible.
This is a great forum, with lots of interesting peple. I have bene posting here more, as I get intelligent thoughtful responses, which make it worthwhile.
I've had 3 MRI's and a CAT scan done on my head.... for two of them they injected me with contrast agent so all the blood vessels light up. It's pretty cool looking at the CD's of them. I have a bunch of really detailed pics of my brain in slices.
Ahnimus would probably orgasm to have something like that...lol
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
True, I have no objective proof that Jesus had schizophrenia. I am grateful that you have acknowledged that I can express the view though, without interptring it as a derogatory statement. I can also understand why you assumed it was though, as it so often is.
PET scans are not often used as a diagnostic tool in mental health. The diaagnosis is nearly always made on a history given by the patient and others. PET scans CAN diagnose schizophrenia though, in a dynamic way, showing in real time what neurotransmitters are active in what brain parts. "Normality" is established in a comparative way, comparing to "normal" control subjects, not in an absolute sense.
I would hope that your MH professional interact with you, they would be useless if too detached. AS far as having expectations, that happens at 2 levels. First, experiences teach what will PROBABLY, as opposed to certainly happen with people. Probabilities apply to populations, though, not individuals. It is a mistake to apply probailies to indivduals.
Secondly, people want to know what is going to happen, so a best estimate prognosis is given. This is always going to be inaccurate at least to some degree. The deiscrepancy is then held up as proof that doctors are idiots, and can't tell peple what is going to happen to them. Well, don't ask next time !!!!!
Everything I suggest for empowerment of the individual is in terms of being integrated along with traditional treatments, as long as they are beneficial. I have great respect for the awesome things the mental health profession did provide me, including the help and support of the many conscientious mental health professionals themselves, on numerous levels. Nothing can diminish that.
I agree that a professional must interact, and I will add that while they do so, they are 100% responsible for their input. We all make mistakes, have off days, and have our own unconscious biases that show when we least expect it. I'm talking more about this kind of fallibility, rather than the possible error of misdiagnosis, etc. I also believe that any patient, no matter how needing of help, is also accountable for where they seek help, and what they accept in terms of getting a consequence for their action. This has not come up in this conversation, but I also believe that by the person with mental health issues, learning through trial and error what works for them, and owning their role of choice, it is in such a way that they make conscious progress. I realize many people hold the professionals to unrealistic expectations, and by passing off accountability to the professional or the system, one can avoids finding their own empowerment. One must live with the consequences of doing so. And many do.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Thank you, I fogot to mention that it is based on the history that I make the diagnosis of schizophrenia in Jesus, rather than a physical examinatoin or lab test, which is patently impossible.
This is a great forum, with lots of interesting peple. I have bene posting here more, as I get intelligent thoughtful responses, which make it worthwhile.
What negative symptoms of schizophrenia does Jesus' history imply?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
I don't know, I'm pretty damn good at predicting behavior.
I want to make sweet manlove to you.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
what separates us from the animals is our ability to accessorise.
;
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
actually i guess that would be "with" you.
anyhoo. now i have to go hit myself a few times in the jaw. just to prove a point about predictability.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
metsy's loaning me the video camera.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
lol. Yeah sometimes unfortunately I watch the news and nothing really shocks me anymore.
I guess an example of this for me is when the guy lept on the man and saved him from the subway in New York. Here is a guy who has a family and everything to lose and he makes a split decision to jump and save a stranger while the train goes over him. Now, I doubt anybody could have predicted that behavior.
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
perhaps on a broad generalised scale, yes. but individually, not so much.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Check that. This shocked me, and very unpredictable.
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
This could be good. Girl on girl, boy on boy, and we don't even need Ron Jeremy.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Don't get your daughter involved in this.
Oh, that was bad.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
no no gue barium's comment about making sweet manlove with ahnimus was not unpredictable. it stood to reason someone would try and throw in what they thought was an unpredictable statement. thus rendering the unpredictable predictable.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Gotcha
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
I would hope it's dead. "dead-murdered-eat-lunchtime". That's an unpredicted concept. I'll have to think about this. So far all I've got is Jodie Foster.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I'll have to come back to this later, and a real shame given that it was just getting excitin'!!
So angelica you keep that room warm for me would you darlin?
And mets love, bugger off with the camera!! HAVE I TAUGHT YOU NOTHING??
gue, lucy, cate, anybody else I've missed, be good to see you all later, this is a very interesting conversation, and I think one of the pits better efforts, although I haven't checked the vagina monologues today!!
Anhnimus, you just keep on ignoring me if that's what gets you through, but I have to say I'm a bit disappointed in you. I FEEL like you've observed, rationalized, and decided that my opinion is not worthy of your response. Of course as lucy said this is a message board so maybe, I've misinterpreted that. BUT it would be nice to hear more discussion Ryan.
OLS, you rock!
ciao all! Have a great day!!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
"Stood to Reason" and "predictiblity" are not one in the same.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
As much as predicting the weather.
who said they were?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I fully agree that it's not scientifically proven that my mystical experiences are real. You probably know that when you're feeling deep lasting love for someone, that subjective experience of love cannot be proven, and yet it is very real to you, none the less. These types of experiences can enliven us and inspire us in our lives. I'm not attempting to pass my experiences off as objective proof, nor as "scientific". I am merely sharing my experiences as they occurred. I also relate my ongoing mystical experiences directly to my healing that occurred step by step.
As far as a brain "not-functioning correctly", first it's interesting that it seems it's assumed that because a brain is not functioning normally that it means it's not functioning correctly. Second of all, I agree, you could prove an "abnormal" brain scan if it in fact existed in this case. I would accept that as factual evidence of an abnormal brainscan. I could see that such a brainscan is consistant to the diagnosis of schizophrenia. What I call as bias is a personal opinion that believes Jesus had schizophrenia, which is not based on proof at all, but rather on personal opinion, coming from a personal, not objective, perspective. Particularly in regards to the mentally ill, who can tend to have poor ego definition, and can be heightened in their perception of what the medical profession assumes of them, I find such preconceptions concerning. I personally recall the days when I internalized the derogatory views people held of me. It was interactive. The mental health professionals are a part of the equation they become involved with. They are not passive, objective, observers. They are quite predisposed towards seeing certain potential outcomes, depending on which discipline they are a part of, thereby directly affecting the patient.
Edit: I, nor the numerous mental health patients I've known, were given brain scans as a part of diagnosis.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
One dead chicken later.....................
True, I have no objective proof that Jesus had schizophrenia. I am grateful that you have acknowledged that I can express the view though, without interptring it as a derogatory statement. I can also understand why you assumed it was though, as it so often is.
PET scans are not often used as a diagnostic tool in mental health. The diaagnosis is nearly always made on a history given by the patient and others. PET scans CAN diagnose schizophrenia though, in a dynamic way, showing in real time what neurotransmitters are active in what brain parts. "Normality" is established in a comparative way, comparing to "normal" control subjects, not in an absolute sense.
I would hope that your MH professional interact with you, they would be useless if too detached. AS far as having expectations, that happens at 2 levels. First, experiences teach what will PROBABLY, as opposed to certainly happen with people. Probabilities apply to populations, though, not individuals. It is a mistake to apply probailies to indivduals.
Secondly, people want to know what is going to happen, so a best estimate prognosis is given. This is always going to be inaccurate at least to some degree. The deiscrepancy is then held up as proof that doctors are idiots, and can't tell peple what is going to happen to them. Well, don't ask next time !!!!!
I think you need to post here more often. Only my opinion, and as long as you're comfortable. I have this opinion based on the time and wisdom that went into this post of yours.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Thank you, I fogot to mention that it is based on the history that I make the diagnosis of schizophrenia in Jesus, rather than a physical examinatoin or lab test, which is patently impossible.
This is a great forum, with lots of interesting peple. I have bene posting here more, as I get intelligent thoughtful responses, which make it worthwhile.
Ahnimus would probably orgasm to have something like that...lol
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I agree that a professional must interact, and I will add that while they do so, they are 100% responsible for their input. We all make mistakes, have off days, and have our own unconscious biases that show when we least expect it. I'm talking more about this kind of fallibility, rather than the possible error of misdiagnosis, etc. I also believe that any patient, no matter how needing of help, is also accountable for where they seek help, and what they accept in terms of getting a consequence for their action. This has not come up in this conversation, but I also believe that by the person with mental health issues, learning through trial and error what works for them, and owning their role of choice, it is in such a way that they make conscious progress. I realize many people hold the professionals to unrealistic expectations, and by passing off accountability to the professional or the system, one can avoids finding their own empowerment. One must live with the consequences of doing so. And many do.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
after they crucified him, he thought he was still alive?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
What's with you people and the crucifixion? Ah, athiests and Easter...
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!