can they really not pay you?

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  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    my2hands wrote:
    i just watched office space last night, i can see kabong stealing the clock-in machine and smashing it in a field while the ghetto boys play in the background


    pc load letter????? what the fuck does that mean!?!?
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  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    El_Kabong wrote:
    pc load letter????? what the fuck does that mean!?!?


    classic!
  • sweet adeline
    sweet adeline Posts: 2,191
    hey kabong, does your company use ADP EZ labor? this is the same bullshit that happens at my work, except its 15 minute increments, not 30.

    you know some consulting dickhead gave the company the advice to set up the clock-in/out this way and showed how it would save the firm a bunch of money.
  • chopitdown
    chopitdown Posts: 2,222
    El_Kabong wrote:
    pc load letter????? what the fuck does that mean!?!?

    LOL...i just got done fighting with our copier at work...I won, just barely.
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  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It is not illegal to round timecards so long as the rounding works both ways (up and down).


    That's how it works in WA state

    http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/files/policies/esd1.pdf

    Follow the link & see pages 5 & 6
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Pansy Pearl wrote:
    That's how it works in WA state

    http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/files/policies/esd1.pdf

    Follow the link & see pages 5 & 6

    And that's exactly what I said. Rounding is permitted as long as the system rounds up as well as down (page 5). Furthermore, employers can prevent employees from clocking in early (page 5). Finally, significance plays an important role (page 4).
  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    chromiam wrote:
    most people are missing the big picture here... this has to do with overtime, not regular work hours. Most companies view overtime as a privledge and don't have to offer it to you. In this case you clock in at 7:31 and then wait till 8 to start working, nothing lost, nothing gained.

    He's right. Overtime isn't a right. And if they set up rules, no matter how stupid you think they are, you have two choices. Deal with their rules and get on with your job, or get a new job. At least you have a choice.

    Or you can get a job with abook. She comes and goes as she pleases, and they adore her for it. ;)
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  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    pjny wrote:
    It's illegal, and MANY businesses set up their timecard/pay rules in an illegal manner. Very few, if any, employees ever actually do anything about it, other then to vent to each other.

    Hourly employees must be compensated for the time that they actually work. An employer cannot simply dictate that because they set up their timecard system to "round" up or down that an employee will not be paid.

    If you punch in at 5:01 and go to work, the employer cannot legally start paying you at 5:30 - giving them 29 free minutes of your labor.

    If you're late, your employer can reprimand you, dock your pay for the time missed, or even fire you, but CANNOT - under any circumstance - get free labor from you.
    I'm guessing this may vary by state but as an accountant in Utah I can verify that this is true. pjny is right on. Many people just let the company shit on them when in fact what the company is doing is illegal. I'd recommend you contact the Department of Workforce Services for whatever state you live in and see what they have to say about it. My guess is that they're just trying to bully some free labor out of you which is very likely illegal.
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    PaperPlates wrote:
    He's right. Overtime isn't a right. And if they set up rules, no matter how stupid you think they are, you have two choices. Deal with their rules and get on with your job, or get a new job. At least you have a choice.

    Or you can get a job with abook. She comes and goes as she pleases, and they adore her for it. ;)
    But if someone works overtime it is absolutely illegal to not pay them. Sure if the company has a no-overtime policy or if they exceed stated overtime limits then they can be reprimanded or fired but they have to pay the employee for the time worked.
  • Ericastrada
    Ericastrada Posts: 70
    Its stories like these that make me glad I'm not an hourly employee. Of course that also means I don't get any overtime at all.
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  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    don't gimme no wrote:
    But if someone works overtime it is absolutely illegal to not pay them. Sure if the company has a no-overtime policy or if they exceed stated overtime limits then they can be reprimanded or fired but they have to pay the employee for the time worked.


    Not if the company policy states that in order to be compensated for overtime you must start a minimum of ___ minutes BEFORE a given time. In this case, in order to get paid for it, you must show up BEFORE the half hour in order to get paid. Hell, they can say that you only get overtime if you wear green plaid, and guess what? Thats the way itll be.
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  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    PaperPlates wrote:
    Not if the company policy states that in order to be compensated for overtime you must start a minimum of ___ minutes BEFORE a given time. In this case, in order to get paid for it, you must show up BEFORE the half hour in order to get paid. Hell, they can say that you only get overtime if you wear green plaid, and guess what? Thats the way itll be.
    From my experience in accounting and many years working with payroll laws that's not true. At least in my state....and I'm guessing most or all states are similar. They can control overtime by reprimanding those who don't comply with their company overtime policies but the law says they must pay the employee for all hours worked.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    don't gimme no wrote:
    From my experience in accounting and many years working with payroll laws that's not true. At least in my state....and I'm guessing most or all states are similar. They can control overtime by reprimanding those who don't comply with their company overtime policies but the law says they must pay the employee for all hours worked.

    What you're missing here is that an employee has no right to work overtime and get paid for it at their own whim. You, as an employee, can't just clock in at any time you please, work, call it overtime, and demand payment.
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    farfromglorified wrote:
    What you're missing here is that an employee has no right to work overtime and get paid for it at their own whim. You, as an employee, can't just clock in at any time you please, work, call it overtime, and demand payment.
    Sure, but that behavior will likely lead to being fired. I've had to pay several employees who were going to quit anyway so worked a bunch of overtime on their last week to get some extra bucks but then getting fired for failure to comply with company policy. I've looked into this several times and like I said, it may vary from state to state but probably not by much. The law here says they must be paid.
  • enharmonic
    enharmonic Posts: 1,917
    El_Kabong wrote:
    they recently changed how you clock in and out at my work, no more scanning your hand but using badges now...they gave out something explaining the new rules and one part caught my eye and seems very wrong...i don't know how they can do this...

    "The system has been set up w/ rounding limits. The rounds are as follows:

    Overtime worked before the associates scheduled shift will be rounded to the nearest 1/2 hour.

    Example: Associate works 8:00am - 5:00pm. They clock in at 7:31 the clock will round to 8:00, however if they clock at 7:30 the clock pays from 7:30. If the associate clocks in at 6:05am the clock pays from 6:30."

    is that really 'the nearest 1/2 hour'? when i was taught rounding i wasn't taught you round 31 to 40, you round it down to 30. so wouldn't the nearest 1/2 hour from 7:31 be 7:30??


    You work for retards.

    Lets not even consider the compensation that you are entitled to under your state's laws. There's the issue of liability. Say you clock in at 7:35, and a light fixture falls on your head, requiring you to get 50 stitches. The clock says you punched in at 8am...so technically, the employer could contest your right to have been in the area when the accident occurred.

    That sucks. Find a new job. Or, refuse to work overtime under the current clock standards.
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  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    El_Kabong wrote:
    they recently changed how you clock in and out at my work, no more scanning your hand but using badges now...they gave out something explaining the new rules and one part caught my eye and seems very wrong...i don't know how they can do this...

    "The system has been set up w/ rounding limits. The rounds are as follows:

    Overtime worked before the associates scheduled shift will be rounded to the nearest 1/2 hour.

    Example: Associate works 8:00am - 5:00pm. They clock in at 7:31 the clock will round to 8:00, however if they clock at 7:30 the clock pays from 7:30. If the associate clocks in at 6:05am the clock pays from 6:30."

    is that really 'the nearest 1/2 hour'? when i was taught rounding i wasn't taught you round 31 to 40, you round it down to 30. so wouldn't the nearest 1/2 hour from 7:31 be 7:30??

    I think as long as they inform you, it's fine.

    You're right, it's not really rounding to the nearest half-hour, though.
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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    PaperPlates wrote:
    He's right. Overtime isn't a right. And if they set up rules, no matter how stupid you think they are, you have two choices. Deal with their rules and get on with your job, or get a new job. At least you have a choice.

    Or you can get a job with abook. She comes and goes as she pleases, and they adore her for it. ;)


    Ah, quit your hatin' and get back in line like the other worker ant slaves. ;)

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I've spoken with accounts payable at my work and this is unlawful practice. However many employers get away with these policies because their employees don't make enough or haven't been there long enough to do anything about it. I spoke with a paralegal about sueing a company for unpaid time and the response was that the lawyer fees would exceed the settlement unless the employee has worked for the company for at least five years.

    Unless you want to stay for five years, then sue the company. It's probably best to look for a job that has lawful policies.
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  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Ah, quit your hatin' and get back in line like the other worker ant slaves. ;)

    You've always got your daydreams...

    Get to work. ;)
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