A question of spirits/souls

Ahnimus · September 2007

angelica wrote:

If my point of view were pointless, and held no weight, say on this board, you'd be able to completely overlook it. And rather, it seems you are quite threatened by my personal experience and what it implies.

I'm about to start doing public speaking about my mental health issues, for educational purposes. I've completed training and will be doing it in a professional capacity. Personal experience holds a LOT of weight and we both know it. Particularly when emotions are involved--it hooks people unconsciously.

Ok, so what's wrong with suicide bombing? You can't discredit their religious convictions and the feeling of being righteous in their actions.

angelica · September 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

True but your attributions are pointless to anyone else. Since they are matters of absolute faith.

Oh, and they are matter of personal experience, not faith. Faith implies that I imagine something to be true and believe it blindly without experience--i.e. because someone told me it was true. In my case, I did not believe the things I experienced to be true, and they happened to me, wayyy outside my bounds of my imagination and expectation...and even beyond my bounds of what was possible.

And psychologically, there are very reasoned and accepted explanations for what happened to me. You know I'm involved in the Canadian Mental Health Association. No sane person who meets me and hears any aspect of my story doubts me. My sanity and well-adjustedness speak volumes.

It's psychologically accepted across the board that people are FAR more than their ego sense of self, which is considered a sliver of who we are. The vast sweeping majority identifies with their ego--this sliver-- and are crippled enough in life, relying on maladjustment, that they do not uncover the depths of who they are. To give up maladjustment and uncover who one really is--well, it's outrightly spiritual. To realize we are FAR beyond the shallow ego...it's stunning to anyone who wakes up, expands and integrates. This is why it is those who overcome, whether addictions, illness, etc. who walk around extolling the virtues of the stunningness of the spirituality that we are all immersed in but that most are generally disconnected from.

angelica · September 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

Ok, so what's wrong with suicide bombing? You can't discredit their religious convictions and the feeling of being righteous in their actions.

I don't discredit their religious convictions, or feeling of being righteous. That is their experience. It doesn't work to discredit someone's experience.

From my own perspective, any intelligent strategy takes into consideration all aspects of the situation--not denying them and closing one's eyes to reality. Therefore, in the case of suicide bombers, or any other challenge I face for that matter, I very much take all aspects of the situation into consideration so I can intelligently strategize.

Ahnimus · September 2007

angelica wrote:

Oh, and they are matter of personal experience, not faith. Faith implies that I imagine something to be true and believe it blindly without experience--i.e. because someone told me it was true. In my case, I did not believe the things I experienced to be true, and they happened to me, wayyy outside my bounds of my imagination and expectation...and even beyond my bounds of what was possible.

And psychologically, there are very reasoned and accepted explanations for what happened to me. You know I'm involved in the Canadian Mental Health Association. No sane person who meets me and hears any aspect of my story doubts me. My sanity and well-adjustedness speak volumes.

It's psychologically accepted across the board that people are FAR more than their ego sense of self, which is considered a sliver of who we are. The vast sweeping majority identifies with their ego--this sliver-- and are crippled enough in life, relying on maladjustment, that they do not uncover the depths of who they are. To give up maladjustment and uncover who one really is--well, it's outrightly spiritual. To realize we are FAR beyond the shallow ego...it's stunning to anyone who wakes up, expands and integrates. This is why it is those who overcome, whether addictions, illness, etc. who walk around extolling the virtues of the stunningness of the spirituality that we are all immersed in but that most are generally disconnected from.

That's non sequitur. It does not follow from your experience anything spiritual. Nor does it follow from Freudian ego concepts anything spiritual. The only way you are going to convince me spirituality exists is by evidence.

angelica · September 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

That's non sequitur. It does not follow from your experience anything spiritual. Nor does it follow from Freudian ego concepts anything spiritual. The only way you are going to convince me spirituality exists is by evidence.

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm stating what is understood in psychology regarding the ego and the authentic Self, and how people experience awakening to the Self.

You will find out if you ever integrate your Self, which will entail giving up addictions and resolving personal conflicts that the addictions hold at bay. Unlike people who, say, give up smoking, but implement overeating to continue numbing themselves to the underlying psychological issues.

It is impossible to give up personal issues and imbalances and become healthy without learning positive, adaptive and life-affirming ways to become whole and integrated. Living in adaptive ways is vibrant and exciting as opposed to the darkness, and coldness of living in maladaptive ways. One might call the two poles heaven and hell.

Ahnimus · September 2007

angelica wrote:

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm stating what is understood in psychology regarding the ego and the authentic Self, and how people experience awakening to the Self.

You will find out if you ever integrate your Self, which will entail giving up addictions and resolving personal conflicts that the addictions hold at bay. Unlike people who, say, give up smoking, but implement overeating to continue numbing themselves to the underlying psychological issues.

It is impossible to give up personal issues and imbalances and become healthy without learning positive, adaptive and life-affirming ways to become whole and integrated. Living in adaptive ways is vibrant and exciting as opposed to the darkness, and coldness of living in maladaptive ways. One might call the two poles heaven and hell.

That's not psychology Angelica. That's newage psychobabble.

Ahnimus · September 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

That's not psychology Angelica. That's newage psychobabble.

New-Age

New Age is the term commonly used to designate the broad movement of late 20th century and contemporary Western culture, characterised by an eclectic and individual approach to spiritual exploration. Self-spirituality, New spirituality, and Mind-body-spirit are other names sometimes used for the movement. [1][2][3] New Age is a term which includes diverse individuals, including some who graft additional beliefs onto a traditional religious affiliation. [3] Individuals who hold any of its beliefs may not identify with the name, and the name may be applied as a label by outsiders to anyone they consider inclined towards its world view. The New Age movement may include elements of older spiritual and religious traditions from both East and West, many of which have been melded with ideas from modern science, particularly psychology and ecology. New Age ideas could be described as drawing inspiration from all the major world religions with influences from Spiritualism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Sufism, Taoism, New Thought and Neo-Paganism being especially strong. From this collection of influences have come a wide-ranging literature on spirituality, new musical styles and crafts — most visible in speciality shops and New Age fairs and festivals[4][5]

• Intuition is a more appropriate guide than rationalism, scientific skepticism or the scientific method.[citation needed]
• Spiritual beings (e.g. angels, ascended masters, elementals, ghosts, and/or space aliens) exist and will guide us, if we open ourselves to their guidance.[17]
• There exists a common core within all religions which renders dogma and religious identity irrelevant.[18]
• Feminine forms of spirituality, including feminine images of the divine, such as the female Aeon Sophia in Gnosticism, are deprecated by patriarchal religions.[1][2]
• An appeal to the language of nature and mathematics, as evidenced by numerology, Kabbala and gnosticism to discern the nature of God.[19]
• Ancient civilizations such as Atlantis existed and left behind relics and monuments such as the Great Pyramid and Stonehenge, whose true nature has not been discovered by mainstream historians.
• Certain geographic locations emanate psychic energy, and such places were considered sacred in religions throughout the world.[20]
• Western science neglects parapsychology, meditation, and holistic health to its detriment.[1][2]
• Science and spirituality are ultimately harmonious. New discoveries in science, e.g. evolution and quantum mechanics, when rightly understood, point to spiritual principles.[21]

Psychobabble

Psychobabble is a customarily pejorative term to denote technical jargon that is used outside of its intended purpose in psychology. The term implies that the speaker lacks the experience and understanding necessary for proper use of a given psychological term. Frequent usage can associate a clinical word with less meaningful buzzword definitions. Some psychological buzzwords have come into widespread use in business management training, motivational seminars, self-help, and popular psychology. These words can be overused by laypersons in describing life problems as clinical maladies, when such nomenclature is not valuable, meaningful or appropriate.

Examples:

Psychobabble consists of selected words and phrases with roots in psychotherapy practice. Psychobabble terms are commonly overused as if they possess some special esoteric value or meaning when they might not. (Various terms and phrases from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders are but one significant source of psychobabble, as the usage of various terms waxes and wanes, while, for the most part, the incidence of true mental disorders does not vary significantly over time).

• Closure
• Co-dependent
• Denial
• Dysfunctional
• Empowerment
• Holistic
• Meaningful relationship
• Self-actualization
• Synergy
• Well-being
• Win-win

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychobabble

angelica · September 2007

Let me know when you are able to disprove my points, Ahnimus.

Ahnimus · September 2007

angelica wrote:

Let me know when you are able to disprove my points, Ahnimus.

There is nothing to disprove Angelica. It's all rhetoric.

Ahnimus · September 2007

So what Psychology textbook did you read Angelica? Peter Gray's?

angelica · September 2007

I'm not surprised that you attempt to degrade and belittle when you don't have reasoned arguments, Ahnimus. Frankly, we all know it's your style.

Even your "information" on psychobabble starts by saying: "Psychobabble is a customarily pejorative term..." which means derogatory, desparaging, belittling.

And you seem proud of yourself for considering this an argument. Again, it shows your lack of reason, and your emotional immaturity.

Ahnimus · September 2007

angelica wrote:

I'm not surprised that you attempt to degrade and belittle when you don't have reasoned arguments, Ahnimus. Frankly, we all know it's your style.

Even your "information" on psychobabble starts by saying: "Psychobabble is a customarily pejorative term..." which means derogatory, desparaging, belittling.

And you seem proud of yourself for considering this an argument. Again, it shows your lack of reason, and your emotional immaturity.

Get lost, it means whatever you want it to mean, it's ultimately how you interpret it and quite obviously you intend to interpret it as an insult rather than a statement of disapproval.

Ahnimus · September 2007

I can't argue against your claims because they are just claims there is no evidence.

Yea, I can provide thousands of pages of research on brains but you ignore it.

Ahnimus · September 2007

Take a look at this statement:

Angelica wrote:

You will find out if you ever integrate your Self, which will entail giving up addictions and resolving personal conflicts that the addictions hold at bay. Unlike people who, say, give up smoking, but implement overeating to continue numbing themselves to the underlying psychological issues

'I' will find out if 'I' ever integrate my 'Self'.

Isn't self, synonymous with 'I' in this case. This is completely circular.

Addiction, I'm sorry to say, is not a purely psychological phenomena. It involves real chemical dependency, something you'd be familiar with if you read any hard science on the subject.

Jeanie · September 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

I can't argue against your claims because they are just claims there is no evidence.

Yea, I can provide thousands of pages of research on brains but you ignore it.

Can I ask you a question and get an answer?

Ahnimus · September 2007

Integrate
To form into one whole; to make entire; to complete; to renew; to restore; to perfect

So, If 'I' integrate 'I' into 'my' 'self' then 'I' will be an authentic 'Self'.

What the fuck are we talking about?

Ahnimus · September 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Can I ask you a question and get an answer?

Certainly Jeanie

angelica · September 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

Take a look at this statement:

'I' will find out if 'I' ever integrate my 'Self'.

Isn't self, synonymous with 'I' in this case. This is completely circular.

Addiction, I'm sorry to say, is not a purely psychological phenomena. It involves real chemical dependency, something you'd be familiar with if you read any hard science on the subject.

The "I" is the ego, which is the sliver of who we are--it is the part that interfaces with reality, on behalf of the truth of who we are. "self", as opposed to Self, is the ego, or I--the sliver; the interface.

Of course addiction has it's chemical correlates. I am psychologically oriented and therefore I talk from a psychological perspective, and from an experienced perspective (i.e. in giving up my numerous addictions, including my "addictive personality" beneath them)

angelica · September 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

Integrate
To form into one whole; to make entire; to complete; to renew; to restore; to perfect

So, If 'I' integrate 'I' into 'my' 'self' then 'I' will be an authentic 'Self'.

What the fuck are we talking about?

Yes--when an individual integrates their ego--the sliver of who they are, the part that interfaces with the world on behalf of who one TRULY is, with the rest of whom one is, then one becomes authentic and intergrated. Restored. Renewed. Completed.

Ahnimus · September 2007

angelica wrote:

The "I" is the ego, which is the sliver of who we are--it is the part that interfaces with reality, on behalf of the truth of who we are. "self", as opposed to Self, is the ego, or I--the sliver; the interface.

Of course addiction has it's chemical correlates. I am psychologically oriented and therefore I talk from a psychological perspective, and from an experienced perspective (i.e. in giving up my numerous addictions, including my "addictive personality" beneath them)

Given that this whole mind-body dichotomy is probably false. What part of the brain is the ego, what part is the Self?

I know this isn't psychology because the entire concept of self/Self/I is hotly debated across all disciplines. It is simply referred to as 'sense of self' in any psychology books I've read. Unless of course you are talking Maslow, Freud or Jung, then you are into psychoanalytics, psychotherapy and logotherapy. Those concepts are hardly appreciated in the entire field of Psychology. Furthermore, "self" is such an elusive concept, let alone "Self", I hope you can quantify what exactly you are talking about with these terms.

A question of spirits/souls

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