Capitalism V Communism

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  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    danmac wrote:
    Do you want to go get an education before discussuing these complex subtleties, or do you want to continue bleating the same old KKK, sorry Republican party dogma?
    I'm guessing when you answer posts in this manner that you dont really want to discuss anything.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • danmac
    danmac Posts: 387
    surferdude wrote:
    I'm guessing when you answer posts in this manner that you dont really want to discuss anything.


    attack attack attack, bleat bleat bleat, deflect and divert, the Republican party way.

    I comprehensively answered the points you made (see above), and this is the best you can retort with?

    And what is it with throw away one liners? Do you all think you're Bill Hicks or something?
    A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
    are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
    god-fearing and pious: Aristotle

    Viva Zapatista!
  • danmac
    danmac Posts: 387
    surferdude wrote:
    I'm guessing when you answer posts in this manner that you dont really want to discuss anything.


    I don't champion a goverment run anything. Government should walk away, be smashed down and the peoples be allowed to control themselves and their own destiny.


    Then you are a capitalist.

    Too bad you likely don't believe the last part of your statement.


    Really mate, when al I get in response is the above, how else am I to react? The above displays such a lack of intelligence, sorry understanding of the issue, that it beggars belief. To call me a capitalist just because I want the end of Government, wel it is just pure, good ole fashioned crazy talk.
    A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
    are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
    god-fearing and pious: Aristotle

    Viva Zapatista!
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Completely agreed. Therefore, I'll amend my statement:

    In a mix of the men of food and the men of poison, the men of poison always win.

    Now it's just nonsense really. :p
    "Men of food" "Men of poison"? Bad guys always win? You dont need that long argumentation to say "Bad guys always win", you know... Just admit that your original saying is sapped of meaning and leave it dead. :)

    Communism is poison and capitalism is food, eh? Subtle.... :p And of course completely opinion and ideologically based on your part. But I know in what way you talk of it, and you know by now how I talk about it by now.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    What we have here has worked quite well so far.

    What's the policy?
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    danmac wrote:
    In this thread - http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=3189327#post3189327 - you stated racist, bigoted, factually erroneous comments that Africans have only themselves to blame for hunger and poverty.

    Therefore, with the evidence provided above, I propose that you, until you take your meds, take off the KKK mask, bring something resembling reality to the table, have no right to a repsonse to anything you say.

    You bigot. If anybody who has the power, and is reading this, I propose that farfromwhatever be banned. Your views are right wing, fanatical, wrong, and should not be allowed to air on this public forum.

    If I disavowed the holocaust, I would be banned. You diosavow the African holocaust of hunger and poverty and the suffering of millions. You regard those in Africa as less than human, as animals, and that makes you a non-person.

    You've used the word "bigot" twice in this post.

    bigot

    n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

    You've put farfromglorified in a category with the KKK, you've alluded to him taking medication, you've called his views "wrong", called him racist, asked for his banning...and with the link you've provided, we get to see you ask if he's clinically insane among other degradations. All this because you disagree with him? Another look at the definition of bigot, with added emphasis:

    bigot

    n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    I never said it was your fault but in a way it's all of our faults so... yeh!

    How is it our fault that someone was born in a place where it's "impossible to grow food"? What action did I commit that caused such a birth?
    We can help and make things different for the next generation and our refusal to put life before profit is certainly our fault.

    But I don't put profit before life. I ask no one to die or suffer so that I can profit. I ask the opposite.
    And do you never think about how lucky you were to have been born where to were?

    I think that all the time.
    To not have to worry about stupid things like where your next meal might come from?

    Um....I feed myself. I grow food at my home and I work such that I can have something of value to exchange with those who also grow food.
    Would you not like to think that were you in a situation where you were starving and couldn't find food anywhere that somebody would help you?

    But I'm not starving. Nor do I intend to starve. And I don't need to force someone to ensure that.
    Isn't that the basic human way? To help eachother?

    Of course! But what you're talking about isn't help. It's sacrificing some people to others.
    What do you do if you see a blind person struggling to cross the road?

    I help them. I don't force the guy next to me to do it.
    Do you say 'well it's not my fucking fault he's blind' and watch him get knocked down?

    Of course not. But I also won't let someone tell me "it's your fault he's blind so if you don't help him I'll shoot you."
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    farfromglorified wrote:


    But I'm not starving. Nor do I intend to starve. And I don't need to force someone to ensure that.

    You are willing to kill someone to ensure that, no? I'm thinking that's why you carry a gun--to keep what is "yours".
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    Now it's just nonsense really. :p
    "Men of food" "Men of poison"? Bad guys always win? You dont need that long argumentation to say "Bad guys always win", you know... Just admit that your original saying is sapped of meaning and leave it dead. :)

    I'm not saying bad guys win (always or otherwise).

    I'm saying people get what they ask for.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    danmac wrote:
    Wow, you really don't seem to grasp the difference in concepts do you?#
    It isn't about 2 choices, there are others!

    Of course. But this thread is about 2 choices.
    I am an Anarchist, but first a Socialist. how does that make me a Capitalist?

    If you do not believe in governmental authority, then you reject the right of governments to hold a monopoly on force. That makes you an anarchist.

    If you believe people should have the right to "control themselves and their own destiny", then your respect the primacy of the individual to set and achieve his or her purpose. That makes you a capitalist.

    If you claim to be a Socialist, that means you desire one of two things. You wish to see the means of production controlled by the "people" or the "state". Ignoring the practical fact that those two terms always amount to the same thing, you are left with the same contradiction:

    You believe that a man's work is owned by himself and his neighbors.

    Unfortunately, this contradiction ignores a very basic reality. If you remove the neighbors, you do not necessarily remove the product of the man's labor. If you remove the man, your necessarily remove his product.

    Your type of mindset fails time and time again because the men repeatedly remove themselves, thereby proving your fallacy. And that's when people like you start believing in the state.
    Under classic Anarchist thought, their should be no government. See Guerin or Proudhon or Bakhunin for examples of their thought.

    You're talking to an anarchist, if you haven't figured that out already.
    Even Chomsky laid down his principle of Anarcho-Syndicalist theory as far back as 1970 that blended the 2 systems, which deviated from the mainstream black or white choice of Capitalism or Communism.

    Certainly.
    Anarcho-Syndicalists, as was witnessed and carried out in Barcelona and Catalonia, did not rely on a centralised government to run the city tram or telephone systems, did not take profits for their operations. THe same with food distribution.

    Certainly. Why do you assume that capitalism equates to profit?
    Do you want to go get an education before discussuing these complex subtleties, or do you want to continue bleating the same old KKK, sorry Republican party dogma?

    Yawn.

    Now, who makes those profits? Tigers?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    angelica wrote:
    You are willing to kill someone to ensure that, no?

    Such a thing is never necessary.
    I'm thinking that's why you carry a gun--to keep what is "yours".

    I will defend my life against force. I will not use force to achieve my life. Do you understand the difference?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    danmac wrote:
    Right now, im guessing ffg is busy searching the net for a riposte to true Socialism.

    Not quite...I was having lunch with my fellow clansmen.

    Now, who makes those profits? Tigers?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    danmac wrote:
    I comprehensively answered the points you made (see above), and this is the best you can retort with?

    Now, who makes those profits? Tigers?
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Such a thing is never necessary.
    Okay. I didn't know your stance on this stuff.
    I will defend my life against force. I will not use force to achieve my life. Do you understand the difference?
    When someone comes at you with a gun and you are overcome with fear, are you sure you will know the difference? Afterall, fear is a "lower" brain function and can distort logic.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    danmac wrote:
    Really mate, when al I get in response is the above, how else am I to react? The above displays such a lack of intelligence, sorry understanding of the issue, that it beggars belief. To call me a capitalist just because I want the end of Government, wel it is just pure, good ole fashioned crazy talk.

    I called you a capitalist because you believe peoples should "be allowed to control themselves and their own destiny". But I suspect that you actually believe that you should be allowed to control peoples to achieve your own destiny.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Okay. I didn't know your stance on this stuff.

    To use a gun to coerce food is to defy the mind. A gun cannot produce an ounce of food.
    angelica wrote:
    When someone comes at you with a gun and you are overcome with fear, are you sure you will know the difference? Afterall, fear is a "lower" brain function and can distort logic.

    The gun I carry is a rejection of fear, not a tool of it.

    The man who points a gun at you is a man telling you not to think. He tells you to sacrifice your mind for your fear. I seek to disappoint such men.

    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force....Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins.....One of these centuries, the brutes, private or public, who believe that they can rule their betters by force, will learn the lesson of what happens when brute force encounters mind and force" -Ayn Rand
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    farfromglorified wrote:
    The gun I carry is a rejection of fear, not a tool of it.

    The man who points a gun at you is a man telling you not to think. He tells you to sacrifice your mind for your fear. I seek to disappoint such men.

    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force....Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins.....One of these centuries, the brutes, private or public, who believe that they can rule their betters by force, will learn the lesson of what happens when brute force encounters mind and force" -Ayn Rand
    Since an external object cannot meet an emotional need (guns, food, sex, whathaveyou) I ask the question again:

    "When someone comes at you with a gun and you are overcome with fear, are you sure you will know the difference? Afterall, fear is a "lower" brain function and can distort logic."
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Since an external object cannot meet an emotional need (guns, food, sex, whathaveyou) I ask the question again:

    Tell that to those who wish me to "feel" something at the point of a gun. I'm quite aware of the fact above.
    angelica wrote:
    "When someone comes at you with a gun and you are overcome with fear, are you sure you will know the difference? Afterall, fear is a "lower" brain function and can distort logic."

    Perhaps I need to be more clear: I do not fear men with guns. Do you understand this now:

    "The gun I carry is a rejection of fear, not a tool of it.

    The man who points a gun at you is a man telling you not to think. He tells you to sacrifice your mind for your fear. I seek to disappoint such men."
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Tell that to those who wish me to "feel" something at the point of a gun. I'm quite aware of the fact above.



    Perhaps I need to be more clear: I do not fear men with guns. Do you understand this now:

    "The gun I carry is a rejection of fear, not a tool of it.

    The man who points a gun at you is a man telling you not to think. He tells you to sacrifice your mind for your fear. I seek to disappoint such men."
    Have you had a gun pulled on you face to face? It's very different intellectualising what you think about how you would feel.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    angelica wrote:
    Have you had a gun pulled on you face to face?

    Yes, but not really in the way you mean.
    It's very different intellectualising what you think about how you would feel.

    Certainly. This is quite problematic for anyone who believes that emotions are means rather than ends.

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