Native Amricans

Dirtie_Frank · October 2008

rigneyclan wrote:

Are you Fucking kidding me????

Native Americans don't owe the US anything

WHy is that? Because of something that happend close to 100-200 years ago. If they do not have to contribute then what the hell African Americans should not have to either. I mean they were brought here against their own will. So free taxes for them. While I am at it since I am Polish and the Germans killed so many Polsih people I want some retribution too.

Dirtie_Frank · October 2008

If they were truely rich with their culture then there should be no casinos to mention. I do not think Crazy Horse had a poker table in his teepee.

ToadJode · October 2008

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

WHy is that? Because of something that happend close to 100-200 years ago. If they do not have to contribute then what the hell African Americans should not have to either. I mean they were brought here against their own will. So free taxes for them. While I am at it since I am Polish and the Germans killed so many Polsih people I want some retribution too.

Then I would suggest going back to Poland and complaining about it there. That had nothing to do with the US.

Dirtie_Frank · October 2008

ToadJode wrote:

Then I would suggest going back to Poland and complaining about it there. That had nothing to do with the US.

You are missing my point. I care deeply what happend in Poland, but what I am trying to get at it is time to move on. I know what happened to all the tribes was wrong but what are we going to do give back the land and rejoin England. All I am saying is if this was about culture there would be no such things as these Casinos.

Dirtie_Frank · October 2008

From Wikipedia, I know, not a great source.

This is a good thing. I hope this part flurishes.

Initially there was hope that tribe-operated casinos would provide a source of income for Native American communities and aid ongoing reservation economic development. Many tribal governments have seen substantial improvements in their ability to provide public services to their members, building schools, making infrastructural improvements, and shoring up the loss of native traditions.

This is what I think is BS.

Tribal gaming operations have not been without controversy, however. A small number of tribes have been able to distribute large per-capita payments, generating considerable public attention. Others describe examples of small groups of people with dubious Native American heritage who have been able to gain federal recognition for the sole purpose of establishing a tax-exempt casino.[citation needed] In addition, some studies suggest that the presence of gambling establishments on reservations has led to an increase in the rate of compulsive gambling on reservations.[citation needed] Additionally, the national expansion of Indian Gaming has led to a practice critics call reservation shopping.[1] This term describes tribes that, with the backing of casino investors, attempt to locate a casino out of their indigenous homeland, usually near a large urban center. However, although authorized by the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, only three such "off-reservation" casinos have been built to date.

know1 · October 2008

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

When is enough enough with no taxes being paid by the casinos on the reservation? I just want to know everyones opinion. I think that it is time these casinos start paying taxes and contributing. Before someone goes off and says we took their land,etc... These are mullti-billion corporations that do not contribute any tax dollars. It seems like lots of people want to tax corporations why not them too?

Why do people worry/whine/complain about others not paying taxes?

What we should be whining and complaining about is wasted government spending. I applaud entities that are legally paying less taxes.

Every call for more taxes by anyone else should be accompanied by a specific statement of what those monies should be used for. Otherwise, it's invalid.

Vedderlution_Baby · October 2008

Well, how much time is enough to forget about the systematic extermination of a group of people carried out for many years that included starvation, chemical warfare, mass killings, and concentration camps?

Dirtie_Frank · October 2008

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Well, how much time is enough to forget about the systematic extermination of a group of people carried out for many years that included starvation, chemical warfare, mass killings, and concentration camps?

Exactly when is enough, enough! When you say Chemical Warfare do you mean disease? If not explain please.

Vedderlution_Baby · October 2008

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Exactly when is enough, enough! When you say Chemical Warfare do you mean disease? If not explain please.

Well, I personally don't believe that there has been enough time to allow wounds so deep enough time to heal. So we disagree on that issue.

But with the chemical warfare...

People took advantage of their knowledge that native americans had not developed sufficient immunities to deal with european diseases and used that to their advantage, purposely infecting native americans with disease they knew would kill them. Not to say that every native american killed by disease was due to negative intentions, but it happened.

And I chose the wrong word. I should've used biological warfare rather than chemical.

Dirtie_Frank · October 2008

I agree on what everyones feelings are towards the mistreatment of the people. I just do not agree with the people that take advantage and claim to be Native American and get off scott free. That is where my stance is, it is not geered towards all Native Americans.

Vedderlution_Baby · October 2008

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I agree on what everyones feelings are towards the mistreatment of the people. I just do not agree with the people that take advantage and claim to be Native American and get off scott free. That is where my stance is, it is not geered towards all Native Americans.

I agree with you on that point. But it's going to happen with every thing that's geared towards trying to help people. I don't think the people who are actually being helped by casino revenue and the casino's presence should suffer because certain people are taking advantage of certain aspects of that situation.

mickeyrat · October 2008

As of today Ohio is Casino free. But there is an issue on the ballot that would allow an OUT of State tribe to operate a casino in Ohio and they are claiming that they WOULD be paying taxes to the state.Bunch of people jumping on this on both sides. Purely GREED driven. Gambling can easily be a problem for people looking for the big SCORE.

Whole lot wrong in this country driven by I GOTTA GET MINE! instead how can I help the situation.
Have a lotta respect for the beliefs of Native peoples regarding The societal treatment of each other. But with HUMANS period it seems that we see more of the baser instincts come into play as oppossed to the helpful spirit of the world.Not that I don't see that spirit but I think we more often than not focus on the negative/problem instead working toward a solution.

All of that begins at home within ourselves.

_ · October 2008

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

If they were truely rich with their culture then there should be no casinos to mention.

Culture doesn't put food on the table. (Well, it did - until the land used to grow that food was taken away.)

Have you ever been to a reservation?

Dirtie_Frank · October 2008

scb wrote:

Culture doesn't put food on the table. (Well, it did - until the land used to grow that food was taken away.)

Have you ever been to a reservation?

So there are no other means other than Gambling, nothing else they could have done. Not in a long time.

_ · October 2008

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

So there are no other means other than Gambling, nothing else they could have done. Not in a long time.

Well some reservations are desperately poor. I don't think most Americans really have any concept of the situation. (When I've talked about it in other threads, people act like I'm living on another planet or something.) I can't begrudge anyone's attempt to provide for their people when they so badly need it. As I've said before, I think the more important question to ask is why some tribes feel the need to resort to casinos, which are arguably bad for native communities/cultures.

Regardless of the prudence of tribal leaders in opening casinos, I think the tax issue is completely trivial.

But I'm confused - are you saying they should pay taxes or that they shouldn't open casinos at all? And what is your suggestion for an alternative way to build up tribal economies?

Dirtie_Frank · October 2008

scb wrote:

Well some reservations are desperately poor. I don't think most Americans really have any concept of the situation. (When I've talked about it in other threads, people act like I'm living on another planet or something.) I can't begrudge anyone's attempt to provide for their people when they so badly need it. As I've said before, I think the more important question to ask is why some tribes feel the need to resort to casinos, which are arguably bad for native communities/cultures.

Regardless of the prudence of tribal leaders in opening casinos, I think the tax issue is completely trivial.

But I'm confused - are you saying they should pay taxes or that they shouldn't open casinos at all? And what is your suggestion for an alternative way to build up tribal economies?

Pay taxes on Casinos.

_ · October 2008

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Pay taxes on Casinos.

Oh, well since you put it that way, I'm convinced! :rolleyes:

sponger · October 2008

cropduster82 wrote:

Harvard has upwards of $130 billion dollar endowment (money in the bank) yet their tuition goes up every year. It costs almost $40,000/year to attend Harvard. No matter how much money they get, the tuition will never go down. Now, I don't know about every university in this country, but I'm guessing schools like Princeton, Yale, Stanford, and Brown have endowments in and around this number. If anything, they can at least make a dent in trying to turn around this economical crisis.

Yes, as far as state budgets go, that would probably be even more profitable than hitting up the casinos.

The problem with endowments, however, is that they are legally earmarked by their donors for a specific purpose. Long-standing laws would have to be overturned to accomplish that one. Most of the donors are probably no longer with us, so permission could not be granted by them.

That's a great idea, though. Never heard of that one.

IndianSummer · October 2008

expectorant wrote:

Our nation has billions of dollars worth of minerals, natural gas, hydrothermal energy and forest resources. (Environmentally responsible
use of course!) Native Americans have never been compensated for
even a small fraction of this. The county where I reside in Colorado has
produced more gold than the Alaska and California gold rushes combined
with more deposits that were never touched by underground mining 100
years ago. As far as I know, no local Native Americans were ever
recompensed anything.

if only roxanne dunbar ortiz could have had her way. really the amerindians should sue white house at the hague or something. its bad enough to have committed the worst crime in human history, its worse if there is no penalty or compensation for it.

IndianSummer · October 2008

cropduster82 wrote:

Leave the Native Americans alone. They've suffered enough over the years. Instead, start taxing the Catholic church on their land. That should be enough to clear more than half the national debt. Want a surplus in the economy? Start taxing universities in this country on their land. If you want universal healthcare for every American, then you can start taxing these institutions on their fiscal year income. All economical problems would be solved .

also start taxing companies which have private jets for their ceos and golf courses in their backyard.

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