No Communion for Obama Supporters
Cocaine_Nosejob
Posts: 1,744
COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics
"The customer...is always...an ASSHOLE"
"The world fascinates me."
"Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you"
"The world fascinates me."
"Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you"
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Comments
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Speaking as someone who lives in a primarily Catholic country, and grew up in the faith... a lot of the church leaders are nutjobs when it comes to stuff like this.Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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Wow, people really get excited about abortion. Legal, not legal, whatever. If women want the right to choose, that's fine. If they prefer abolishing legalized abortion I'm fine with that too. Guess that means I'm pro-choice, though I think I'm more pro-I-don't-really-care-either-way. I will say this: If a priest wants to punish people for their vote from the pulpit his church should have to pay some taxes."Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley0
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PJ_Saluki wrote:I will say this: If a priest wants to punish people for their vote from the pulpit his church should have to pay some taxes.
A-fucking-men"The customer...is always...an ASSHOLE"
"The world fascinates me."
"Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you"0 -
The term "pro abortion" is such a crock of shit.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
I'm a Christian, but I'm not Catholic and don't really believe in communion. I'm pro-choice, and believe that Jesus was pro-choice too.
That said, I can kind of understand where this priest is coming from.
Although,
1. It would make more sense to me to ask those who have actually HAD abortions to not take communion until they are "reconciled to God," rather than asking this of anyone who voted for someone who, among many other policies, doesn't intend to interfere with someone else who might have an abortion; and
2. I think it's 100% hypocritical to ask those who voted for a pro-choice candidate to not take communion unless you also ask the same of those who voted for any other candidate who supports anything (or the right to anything) that is contrary to the church's teachings, such as contraception, gay marriage, war, the death penalty, etc. I mean, adultery is a sin, is it not? Should we not vote for any candidate who doesn't insist that cheating should carry criminal penalties? Should we not vote for any candidate who doesn't insist that it should be illegal to have sex out of wedlock?
And why, oh why, did this priest feel the need to throw Obama's middle name into it? That's just plain stupid.0 -
didn't mccain cheat on his 1st wife? if so, should ALL the parishioners who voted for mccain, who committed a sin, also not receive communion?0
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Is this really suprising to anyone? All walk in goosestep to the right or to the left...vindicating the actions of their own side while villifying the oppostion.
..and so it continues, the largest impediment between individuals and thier fiath is the church. yawn0 -
Agreed!PJ_Saluki wrote:If a priest wants to punish people for their vote from the pulpit his church should have to pay some taxes.Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V0 -
This is ONE PRIEST. He is not a Bishop, or a Cardinal, or the Pope. He does not reflect an official Church position at this time.
And anyway, why are all of you people bashing the Church? All I hear from you all the time is religion is stupid and religious people are stupid and God doesn't exist, etc. If you really don't care about religion, why do you need to keep talking about it? The Church is anti-abortion, deal with it. Why is it so important for you to bash other people's beliefs and viewpoints? You're certainly not changing my mind anymore than I'm changing yours by saying abortion is murder. Stop talking about it.I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
-Reagan0 -
MattyJoe wrote:Stop talking about it.
Says the person who came to the thread to talk about it.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
At the end of the day, it all comes down to whether a person believes in the Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ. To receive communion it's automatically expected that you believe all the Church’s teachings. Doesn't work for me, but each to his own. Whatever makes you happy.0
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My first reaction was to say this guy is a nut job, and he might be who knows BUT here is the deal... I was raised catholic, attended all-girl catholic private school, most of the teachers were nuns and we attended mass every Thursday (besides going with my parents on Sundays).
Since I was catholic, I was baptized, I received the First Holy communion, and I was confirmed.
Around junior year and it continued throughout senior year I started drifting away from my faith I guess because there were many things I didn't agree with, until I finally never went back and I now don't practice any religion.
I'm pro-choice,
I'm pro birth control
I'm pro gay marriage
So when my third son was born I baptized him (family pressure) and I had to attend mass a couple of times and it was around the time the pope died and the priest went on and on about how the Pope always spoke against abortion, birth control, gay marriage, death penalty and a bunch of other things, out of the 8 things he mentioned I didn't agree with 7.... so sitting inside the church I felt very hypocritical and it reminded me of why I left the Catholic church.
I guess that if I feel so strongly about drifting away from a church that is opposite to my beliefs, I can see how someone very religious would want to separate themselves as much as they can from someone that doesn't share their views.
I think this priest is crossing the line though because it's not his call, it should be a personal decision if you think you betrayed or not your faith by voting for Obama."Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV0 -
i've got a co-worker who says she's catholic - when i ask her about key issues: abortion, evolution, homosexuality, etc ... she's basically against the church on all of them ... then why do they call themselves catholic ... her resopnse is: i was raised that way or baptised or whatever the thing is ... like that really matters ...
i can see having a few things you don't agree with in a religion but to have so many and then still subscribe to being part of that faith just leads me to believe that there is some invisible stranglehold the church has on people ...
anyhoo - i'm happy i spent my sundays having fun with other kids instead of being told what i should or shouldn't believe ...0 -
So voting for someone who supports reducing abortions through comprehensive sex ed and better access to birth control is evil, but voting for someone who wants the war to keep going so we can keep killing civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan is A-OK.
It's a double standard that's never made any sense to me.Chicago 2000 : Chicago 2003 : Chicago 2006 : Summerfest 2006 : Lollapalooza 2007 : Chicago 2009 : Noblesville (Indy) 2010 : PJ20 (East Troy) 2011 : Wrigley Field 2013 : Milwaukee (Yield) 2014 : Wrigley Field 20160 -
polaris wrote:i've got a co-worker who says she's catholic - when i ask her about key issues: abortion, evolution, homosexuality, etc ... she's basically against the church on all of them ... then why do they call themselves catholic ... her resopnse is: i was raised that way or baptised or whatever the thing is ... like that really matters ...
i can see having a few things you don't agree with in a religion but to have so many and then still subscribe to being part of that faith just leads me to believe that there is some invisible stranglehold the church has on people ...
anyhoo - i'm happy i spent my sundays having fun with other kids instead of being told what i should or shouldn't believe ...
That is exactly the way I felt, when I realized the Catholic Church was against many of the things I wasn't, it just didn't seem like a place for me or my family anymore."Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV0 -
Mrs_Vedder78 wrote:That is exactly the way I felt, when I realized the Catholic Church was against many of the things I wasn't, it just didn't seem like a place for me or my family anymore.
but you would admit it was a hard thing to do?0 -
Cocaine_Nosejob wrote:COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics
The Catholic denomination has some very rigid beliefs that probably need to be brought into modern times, IMO.The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.0 -
iamica wrote:So voting for someone who supports reducing abortions through comprehensive sex ed and better access to birth control is evil, but voting for someone who wants the war to keep going so we can keep killing civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan is A-OK.
It's a double standard that's never made any sense to me.
It's never made sense to me that people equate those two very different things.....of which I oppose both, BTW.The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.0 -
polaris wrote:but you would admit it was a hard thing to do?
to be honest with you it wasn't really that hard.
I mean I didn't really wake up one morning and decided that I wasn't catholic.
it started in junior year when i started questioning many of the things the catholic church stood for and I didn't like those stances.
As time went by more and more things started bothering me about the church and the way they viewed things and it just didn't go with the person I was it was gradual and until I was completely gone from the catholic church."Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV0 -
MattyJoe wrote:This is ONE PRIEST. He is not a Bishop, or a Cardinal, or the Pope. He does not reflect an official Church position at this time.
And anyway, why are all of you people bashing the Church? All I hear from you all the time is religion is stupid and religious people are stupid and God doesn't exist, etc. If you really don't care about religion, why do you need to keep talking about it? The Church is anti-abortion, deal with it. Why is it so important for you to bash other people's beliefs and viewpoints? You're certainly not changing my mind anymore than I'm changing yours by saying abortion is murder. Stop talking about it.
agreed.
but in discussion of the TOPIC...i do agree it's a bit far-fetched, even for one priest, to tell his community they are not fit to receive communion if they voted for obama. i realize obama is pro-choice....but given that abortion is ALREADY legal, what differences does it make if we have a pro-choice candidate in this priest's mind? can't make it MORE legal...it just is. however, if one is truly concerned about life, especially the already living out in the world...i would think one would support obama over mccain. so really....i just don't get it. and yes, i think it over the top for him to suggest they need to go to confession and admit this *sin*....that's all.
and hey, i was raised roman catholic, so i know it all too well.Stay with me...
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow0
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