No Communion for Obama Supporters
Cocaine_Nosejob
Posts: 1,744
COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics
"The customer...is always...an ASSHOLE"
"The world fascinates me."
"Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you"
"The world fascinates me."
"Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you"
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A-fucking-men
"The world fascinates me."
"Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you"
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
That said, I can kind of understand where this priest is coming from.
Although,
1. It would make more sense to me to ask those who have actually HAD abortions to not take communion until they are "reconciled to God," rather than asking this of anyone who voted for someone who, among many other policies, doesn't intend to interfere with someone else who might have an abortion; and
2. I think it's 100% hypocritical to ask those who voted for a pro-choice candidate to not take communion unless you also ask the same of those who voted for any other candidate who supports anything (or the right to anything) that is contrary to the church's teachings, such as contraception, gay marriage, war, the death penalty, etc. I mean, adultery is a sin, is it not? Should we not vote for any candidate who doesn't insist that cheating should carry criminal penalties? Should we not vote for any candidate who doesn't insist that it should be illegal to have sex out of wedlock?
And why, oh why, did this priest feel the need to throw Obama's middle name into it? That's just plain stupid.
..and so it continues, the largest impediment between individuals and thier fiath is the church. yawn
And anyway, why are all of you people bashing the Church? All I hear from you all the time is religion is stupid and religious people are stupid and God doesn't exist, etc. If you really don't care about religion, why do you need to keep talking about it? The Church is anti-abortion, deal with it. Why is it so important for you to bash other people's beliefs and viewpoints? You're certainly not changing my mind anymore than I'm changing yours by saying abortion is murder. Stop talking about it.
-Reagan
Says the person who came to the thread to talk about it.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Since I was catholic, I was baptized, I received the First Holy communion, and I was confirmed.
Around junior year and it continued throughout senior year I started drifting away from my faith I guess because there were many things I didn't agree with, until I finally never went back and I now don't practice any religion.
I'm pro-choice,
I'm pro birth control
I'm pro gay marriage
So when my third son was born I baptized him (family pressure) and I had to attend mass a couple of times and it was around the time the pope died and the priest went on and on about how the Pope always spoke against abortion, birth control, gay marriage, death penalty and a bunch of other things, out of the 8 things he mentioned I didn't agree with 7.... so sitting inside the church I felt very hypocritical and it reminded me of why I left the Catholic church.
I guess that if I feel so strongly about drifting away from a church that is opposite to my beliefs, I can see how someone very religious would want to separate themselves as much as they can from someone that doesn't share their views.
I think this priest is crossing the line though because it's not his call, it should be a personal decision if you think you betrayed or not your faith by voting for Obama.
i can see having a few things you don't agree with in a religion but to have so many and then still subscribe to being part of that faith just leads me to believe that there is some invisible stranglehold the church has on people ...
anyhoo - i'm happy i spent my sundays having fun with other kids instead of being told what i should or shouldn't believe ...
It's a double standard that's never made any sense to me.
That is exactly the way I felt, when I realized the Catholic Church was against many of the things I wasn't, it just didn't seem like a place for me or my family anymore.
but you would admit it was a hard thing to do?
The Catholic denomination has some very rigid beliefs that probably need to be brought into modern times, IMO.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It's never made sense to me that people equate those two very different things.....of which I oppose both, BTW.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
to be honest with you it wasn't really that hard.
I mean I didn't really wake up one morning and decided that I wasn't catholic.
it started in junior year when i started questioning many of the things the catholic church stood for and I didn't like those stances.
As time went by more and more things started bothering me about the church and the way they viewed things and it just didn't go with the person I was it was gradual and until I was completely gone from the catholic church.
agreed.
but in discussion of the TOPIC...i do agree it's a bit far-fetched, even for one priest, to tell his community they are not fit to receive communion if they voted for obama. i realize obama is pro-choice....but given that abortion is ALREADY legal, what differences does it make if we have a pro-choice candidate in this priest's mind? can't make it MORE legal...it just is. however, if one is truly concerned about life, especially the already living out in the world...i would think one would support obama over mccain. so really....i just don't get it. and yes, i think it over the top for him to suggest they need to go to confession and admit this *sin*....that's all.
and hey, i was raised roman catholic, so i know it all too well.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
interesting ... it did take a while tho ... what i'm trying to get at is that looking at it now - it's obvious you are not a catholic ... but yet i see so many people taht shouldn't be either but they continue to call themselves that ... and for many continue to let the church dictate a lot of their thoughts ...
Yeah I see your point.
I have met many people that have told me they are Catholic because they were brought up that way
In my case yeah it took a while, I would say 2-3 years from the time I was finishing high school til I was out to realize that I did not want to be part of the Catholic Church and that i seriously questioned whether God exists or not.
I guess you could call me an atheist.
"You make a mistake when you assume that younger Christians don’t care as much as you about the sanctity of life. They do care—very much—but they have a more consistent ethic of life. Both broader and deeper, it is inclusive of abortion, but also of the many other assaults on human life and dignity. For the new generation, poverty, hunger, and disease are also life issues; creation care is a life issue; genocide, torture, the death penalty, and human rights are life issues; war is a life issue. What happens to poor children after they are born is also a life issue."
And here is a link to his blog with some great articles, which contains none of the stereotypical intolerance you hear out of some of the most vocal Christian leaders. This is a movement that is gaining momentum among Christians, especially younger people of faith who are sick of the crap and want to actually take back their faith, follow Christ's teachings and not be represented by a bunch of fear mongering right wingers. There is still hope!!!
http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/
not me.
yawn #2
i know of many 'good catholics' who voted for obama. he is the greater good, will more than likely save more lives by ending the war sooner, more judicious decisions, and sure...supports education and prevention for sex, which should help reduce abortion, overall....all good, life-affirming things.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Agreed.
I'm Catholic and I understand the difficulty in voting for a Democrat or a Republican when neither aligns with your beliefs on: human life, family life, social justice and global solidarity. Any "separation of church and state" ideology does NOT force me to abandon my central moral convictions when voting. I can, do and will continue to vote with my conscience. Why would we not be allowed to vote for what we believe is the common good (just as you do)?
I believe that all life is sacred. I apply that to the way that I vote and there's nothing wrong with that. However, there are many serious moral issues for Catholics beyond abortion: the death penalty, resorting to unjust war, the use of torture, war crimes, the environment, the failure to respond to those who are suffering from hunger, lack of health care, and unjust immigration policies. Although there may have been some exceptions (e.g. this article) amongst individuals, the 60 million Catholics in America are NOT told who to vote for by the Church. We ARE told to vote with our consciences. But doesn't everyone? I hope so.
I access it with my TV remote.
Makes my my brain go all numb and fuzzy.
miraculous.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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