Parents of murdered gay man have a question for the GOP

catefrances wrote:

okay then..so by that rationale, ALL RAPE and SERIAL KILLING of women,
should be considered a hate crime.

No. The "Hate Crime" stems from differences in culture and violent consequences yielded from intolerance. "Hate" seems a very general term to use, of course, but the intent of the law seems well-defined.

catefrances wrote:

so then men who serially murder women or rape woman dont hate them? they do it cause...why exactly?

Good christ, i don't know cate. that's a different topic. You're focusing on the word "hate' in Hate Crime. The intent of the law, at least given by JDSal's state seems very specific on what a hate crime is. It is about cultural intolerance. It is about cultural bigotry in a free society.

catefrances wrote:

HOW is hate against women and the crimes perpetrated against them any different? is it cause we're dealing with MEN'S laws here?

You've chosen to focus on "hate" in the Hate Crime bills. I think the law is aimed toward a more general demographic of culture than that just of sex.

gue_barium wrote:

You've chosen to focus on "hate" in the Hate Crime bills. I think the law is aimed toward a more general demographic of culture than that just of sex.

well then if one is not going to focus on the HATE in the HATE crimes bill, then why have a HATE crimes bill in the first place?

you think? you think the law is aimed that way? well of course it's aimed that way, cause as we all know women have it coming when they are raped and murdered cause little johnny couldnt get it up from mere pleasure alone anymore. when little johnny hated that bitch of a mother so much that after he stabbed her to death and decapitated her, he had to systematically kill every woman he came across that reminded him of that f#@king bitch.

so tell me again how i can't NOT focus on the HATE in the HATE crimes bill?

or is it that you think that women cant be victims of hate crimes simply due to the fact that they're women? that somehow crimes against women are just expressions of love and compassion? or a misunderstood childhood?

catefrances wrote:

well then if one is not going to focus on the HATE in the HATE crimes bill, then why have a HATE crimes bill in the first place?

you think? you think the law is aimed that way? well of course it's aimed that way, cause as we all know women have it coming when they are raped and murdered cause little johnny couldnt get it up from mere pleasure alone anymore. when little johnny hated that bitch of a mother so much that after he stabbed her to death and decapitated her, he had to systematically kill every woman he came across that reminded him of that f#@king bitch.

so tell me again how i can't NOT focus on the HATE in the HATE crimes bill?

or is it that you think that women cant be victims of hate crimes simply due to the fact that they're women? that somehow crimes against women are just expressions of love and compassion? or a misunderstood childhood?

The spirit of the law (re: hate crimes) as i see it does not intend to ignore the vagaries of all
other crimes of hate. You're acting weird about this. Violent crimes are still violent crimes.

catefrances wrote:

yes this is true. however my contention was why crimes against women aren't considered hate crimes

Some of them are. Hate crimes are mainly against a particular race, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity/national origin, or disability.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/table2.html

All statistics
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/victims.html

JD Sal wrote:

Some of them are. Hate crimes are mainly against a particular race, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity/national origin, or disability.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/table2.html

All statistics
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/victims.html

Thanks, I needed that.

catefrances wrote:

i'm acting weird? how so?

could it be because i am able to see the message that crimes perpetrated against women by men send to other women. that i can see how it shapes how we live, how we communicate, how we go into the world.
are you trying to tell me it's different when a woman is targetted simply because she is a woman. that this somehow does not count the way it would if she were a gay man? or how about if the victim was a jewish woman? would it be hate crime by virtue of the fact that she was jewish? would the fact that she is also a woman be irrelevant? is it not enough to just hate her because she's a woman? by violating her(as a woman) that doesn't send a message to all other women regardless of age or ethnicity at all, right?

see: above

Skitch Patterson wrote:

The problem in hate crimes is determining this supposed motive of hate.

if a gay guy grabs your cock at a club, and you say "faggot" when you punch him in the face, is that a hate crime?

I dont think so, you're punching him for another reason, the term you use is irrelevant.

You're being a suppositionist, which is to say that you haven't been a victim of a hate crime as stated by the law. Nor have you likely participated in or witnessed a hate crime. Other than what you have seen on the news.

catefrances wrote:

so where are the statistics on crimes against woman specifically? and why arent they classed as hate crimes?

I'm getting the idea that you hate men and men hate you.