No Smoking in Bars.....

floyd1975 · May 2007

Kann wrote:

I was just saying that banning cigarettes from a bar was less likely to put it out of business than banning alcohol.
I get your points, but since we already have regulations everywhere for now and that personal freedom just ain't what it should be, don't you think this one isn't such a bad idea?

You could use that slippery slope argument to ban all freedoms. All banning serves somebody's interests.

farfromglorified · May 2007

Kann wrote:

I was just saying that banning cigarettes from a bar was less likely to put it out of business than banning alcohol.

Are you putting profit over people here???? Lives are at stake. How dare you?

I get your points, but since we already have regulations everywhere for now and that personal freedom just ain't what it should be, don't you think this one isn't such a bad idea?

I think they're all a bad idea, friend.

dunkman · May 2007

farfromglorified wrote:

We haven't "ascertained" that. You've simply proclaimed that. Why don't you define what makes a place private, and what makes a place public, and we'll go from there.

The Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Bill was introduced to Parliament on December 17, 2004, formally proposing that smoking should be banned in enclosed public places such as workplaces, pubs and restaurants.

i go by where i live and if my government, law, society has defined a pub as a public space then thats what it is.

if we take the time to look up the bans in seperate US states it'll most likely say the same

farfromglorified · May 2007

dunkman wrote:

i go by where i live and if my government, law, society has defined a pub as a public space then thats what it is.

:eek:

I gotta get out of here kids. My head is going to explode.

dunkman · May 2007

farfromglorified wrote:

But the logic is different. You've banned drunk-driving everywhere. Why are you only banning smoking in bars?

its banned in all enclosed public spaces

Hehe...based on the logic here, that answer is simple: because the bar contributed to the situation.

its not the bar's fault.. trade and exchange... he bought drink through legal means... by your logic the guy from Virginia Tech who killed loads of people wasnt at fault... its the gunshop that should be blamed for the shootings

Sure! Why shouldn't we? And why not blame the government that build the road in the first place?

your just being obstinate now

floyd1975 · May 2007

dunkman wrote:

The Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Bill was introduced to Parliament on December 17, 2004, formally proposing that smoking should be banned in enclosed public places such as workplaces, pubs and restaurants.

i go by where i live and if my government, law, society has defined a pub as a public space then thats what it is.

if we take the time to look up the bans in seperate US states it'll most likely say the same

The difference here is that you are using the government to define what is for the better. The government could just as easily define your residence as a public place as well and tell you that you are only allowed to do certain things in certain places there as well. That would not make that right.

dunkman · May 2007

farfromglorified wrote:

:eek:

I gotta get out of here kids. My head is going to explode.

thank fuck for that

Heineken Helen · May 2007

farfromglorified wrote:

:eek:

I gotta get out of here kids. My head is going to explode.

I often wonder how you survive in this world

. Yes, there's quite a lot of things about the government and what they impose on us that I don't like... but I can see how I have to compromise on some things for the greater good and so we can all get along.

Kann · May 2007

farfromglorified wrote:

:eek:

I gotta get out of here kids. My head is going to explode.

haha, I finally understood you! We live in a republic, you don't. We have been taught since childhood that our government upholds common values chosen by us and is here to enforce those values and freedom is only one of them (for example ours are "liberty, equality, brotherhood" - hence the very social policies around here (and poor economical policies as a result)).
Where as you live in a democracy with no republican values to uphold, the us govermnent's only role is to ensure your freedom. The other values are the ones the people of the usa choose to enact in their everyday lives.
So basically my idea of freedom is linked with those two other values, and what I view as protecting brotherhood cannot harm what I view as freedom. While you see freedom as a unique value, higher than the others.
Isn't Ireland a republic?

jeffbr · May 2007

dunkman wrote:

The Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Bill was introduced to Parliament on December 17, 2004, formally proposing that smoking should be banned in enclosed public places such as workplaces, pubs and restaurants.

i go by where i live and if my government, law, society has defined a pub as a public space then thats what it is.

if we take the time to look up the bans in seperate US states it'll most likely say the same

That some newspeak. Public is public. Private is public. And the United Kingdom is a united kingdom. All praise be to the government. Amen.

Heineken Helen · May 2007

Kann wrote:

So basically my idea of freedom is linked with those two other values, and what I view as protecting brotherhood cannot harm what I view as freedom. While you see freedom as a unique value, higher than the others.

Beautifully put

dunkman · May 2007

jeffbr wrote:

That some newspeak. Public is public. Private is public. And the United Kingdom is a united kingdom. All praise be to the government. Amen.

no need for the Amen as i dont believe in religion... in fact it should be banned

dunkman · May 2007

Kann wrote:

haha, I finally understood you! We live in a republic, you don't. We have been taught since childhood that our government upholds common values chosen by us and is here to enforce those values and freedom is only one of them (for example ours are "liberty, equality, brotherhood" - hence the very social policies around here (and poor economical policies as a result)).
Where as you live in a democracy with no republican values to uphold, the us govermnent's only role is to ensure your freedom. The other values are the ones the people of the usa choose to enact in their everyday lives.
So basically my idea of freedom is linked with those two other values, and what I view as protecting brotherhood cannot harm what I view as freedom. While you see freedom as a unique value, higher than the others.
Isn't Ireland a republic?

now thats a post!!

evenkat · May 2007

Kann wrote:

haha, I finally understood you! We live in a republic, you don't. We have been taught since childhood that our government upholds common values chosen by us and is here to enforce those values and freedom is only one of them (for example ours are "liberty, equality, brotherhood" - hence the very social policies around here (and poor economical policies as a result)).
Where as you live in a democracy with no republican values to uphold, the us govermnent's only role is to ensure your freedom. The other values are the ones the people of the usa choose to enact in their everyday lives.
So basically my idea of freedom is linked with those two other values, and what I view as protecting brotherhood cannot harm what I view as freedom. While you see freedom as a unique value, higher than the others.
Isn't Ireland a republic?

Ok I'm confused but that's what I get for jumping in here. You are from where? The US is a republic and not a democracy.

decides2dream · May 2007

eh, we'll not ALL ever agree on any one law, let alone all of em. for me i could argue back and forth about private business owners' rights and the public rights.....but bottomline, i am simply pleased that for once, there's a newer law i truly support and enjoy.

for those who say one could take their business elsewhere, the sad fact is before this law, at least by me...which btw i live in one of the most densely populated places in the world......there was NOT ONE smoke-free bar, apparently bar owners felt they'd lose business. so the only 'choice' was endure second-hand smoke or stay home. so sure, still a choice....but yea, not much of one. in a sense, by enacting this law, the government affectively leveled the playing field between all the bars, no 'advantage/disadvantage' of it, since all have to be smoke-free, and yes...it has been shown that it has NOT negatively affected their business in the least...so still win-win for the business owners. cleaner bars and still making money....

as i said earlier, agree...disagree....whatever. i for one am HAPPY for this law, but i also do support governemtnal controls in other areas as well, so i don't have a problem with it.

Binaural · May 2007

I just think its bullshit that theres no smoking in ALL public buildings. I would never EVER smoke in a restauraunt, can live without smoking in a bar, but now the government who will take my taxes to pay for a war which I didn't agree with, give themselves a payrise, among other things, this government has decided that I can no longer sit have a cigerrette, a coffee and read a book in the coffee shop in which I have done so for the past three years. They can take away that small piece of pleasure but they can't do something like correct the imbalance of rights between mothers and fathers. :rolleyes:

RolandTD20Kdrummer · May 2007

Smoking is a disease of the body and mind.

You don't eradicate a disease by making concessions and allowing it to propagate.

If you think smoking is a pleasure...you're an addict whose brain is damaged by this very same addiction. ... Love is blind comes to mind.

Smoking in reality is very much disgusting. I guess the crux of it is ignorance is bliss...

ok someone tell me I'm just jealous health freak again...it makes me giggle

jlew24asu · May 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Smoking is a disease of the body and mind.

You don't eradicate a disease by making concessions and allowing it to propagate.

If you think smoking is a pleasure...you're an addict whose brain is damaged by this very same addiction. ... Love is blind comes to mind.

Smoking in reality is very much disgusting. I guess the crux of it is ignorance is bliss...

ok someone tell me I'm just jealous health freak again...it makes me giggle

you do talk a big game for being someone who used to smoke for several years.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · May 2007

jlew24asu wrote:

you do talk a big game for being someone who used to smoke for several years.

Yeah I suppose experience is necessary in making a proper evaluation of the situation. Not a big game.... the reality game...

jlew24asu · May 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Yeah I suppose experience is necessary in making a proper evaluation of the situation. Not a big game.... the reality game...

yea well maybe you should tone down the high and mighty act. you certainly are not immune to the effects of the ciggys you smoked even though you quit.

No Smoking in Bars.....

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