2078 died in Iraq in March

24

Comments

  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    even flow? wrote:
    From terrorist attacks? Or from a fellow Yank?

    Dunno. How many Iraqi's were killed by terrorist attacks....or by Americans?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    Dunno. How many Iraqi's were killed by terrorist attacks....or by Americans?

    what do you care...? Mr. "not throw out statistics that do not mean anything"...
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    inmytree wrote:
    here's what I do know...the 3000 plus US soldiers killed would not have been killed...the thousands injured would not have been injured...and car bombs did not go off on a daily basis....

    Actually, you do not know that every one of them might not have been killed or injured by other means.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    Actually, you do not know that every one of them might not have been killed or injured by other means.

    how do you know that I don't know....?
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    inmytree wrote:
    what do you care...? Mr. "not throw out statistics that do not mean anything"...

    I care about the war, not about useless arguments.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    inmytree wrote:
    how do you know that I don't know....?

    I don't know :)
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    I care about the war, not about useless arguments.

    yet you continue to put forward useless arguments...interesting, indeed...
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    know1 wrote:
    No - let's just demand the end to the occupation and not throw out statistics that do not mean anything.
    Was 9-11 just a couple of buildings?
    Was Vietnam simply unpleasant?

    Often people need to see the deaths before they'll make the demand.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    I don't know :)

    you seem to...:confused:
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    know1 wrote:
    I care about the war, not about useless arguments.
    I care about my car, not about useless tires, alternators, carborators, or oil pans.
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    know1 wrote:
    No - let's just demand the end to the occupation and not throw out statistics that do not mean anything.

    Ahh that was your point. So the fact that peoples are dying do not mean anything, i'm sorry it's the most urgent argument to change the current strategy in my opinion. Since people are still defending this occupation, it's the argument i find the most important to make them change their mind. If you have better one, bring them on, instead of saying mine are useless... i'd be happy to hear them.

    It's also a good way to show that the situation is getting worse, proving that your govt. is once again lying to you, but you probably missed that point of my original argument.
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    inmytree wrote:
    yet you continue to put forward useless arguments...interesting, indeed...

    To try and point out that they do not help our cause.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    thankyougrandma wrote:
    Ahh that was your point. So the fact that peoples are dying do not mean anything, i'm sorry it's the most urgent argument to change the current strategy in my opinion. Since people are still defending this occupation, it's the argument i find the most important to make them change their mind. If you have better one, bring them on, instead of saying mine are useless... i'd be happy to hear them.

    It's also a good way to show that the situation is getting worse, proving that your govt. is once again lying to you, but you probably missed that point of my original argument.

    Can you quote where I said people dying didn't mean anything? I'm the most Pro-Life person I know.

    Why is it wrong to point out that, if you do not know how many would have died if the U.S. wasn't there, then you're not saying anything by pointing out how many did die?

    If 5000 die the month after the U.S. pulls out, would you be the first one to demand they return to Iraq?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    know1 wrote:
    Can you quote where I said people dying didn't mean anything? I'm the most Pro-Life person I know.

    well, you're the one who said that the original argument about the death toll is useless... no? am i lost?
    know1 wrote:
    Why is it wrong to point out that, if you do not know how many would have died if the U.S. wasn't there, then you're not saying anything by pointing out how many did die?

    Cause by pointing out how many die this month, you can see that it's more than last month, all this while your government and most war lovers are saying it's getting better. It's not wrong to say "what if", but since you can't answer, and since i can't answer, it's pointless, that's what i mean. I'm talking about reality, not about the parallel world where Saddam is still alive and ruling on his country, i don't and cannot know about those if.

    know1 wrote:
    If 5000 die the month after the U.S. pulls out, would you be the first one to demand they return to Iraq?

    No, i don't think a unilateral withdrawal is the answer anymore, i still think Bush should be judged for this, i still think a MAJOR change of strategies is needed, but i don't think a withdrawal would help to solve the problems. As i said in this thread, a change is needed, but giving up on Iraq now would be an even bigger crime than the invasion itself, it would be a Rwanda like crime. The mistake have been done, it's time to help Iraquis now, and i don't think the way it is being done now is helping them at all...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    know1 wrote:
    Dunno. How many Iraqi's were killed by terrorist attacks....or by Americans?

    Maybe you and the likes should ask yourself when Saddam wasn't doing the killing, how many a month were dying. Then compare those stats to your wonderful country and see who had more. May just surprise you and have you look at fixing what is broken before veturing into the brave new world.

    "How many died in the US during March?" ha ha ha
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    thankyougrandma wrote:
    No, i don't think a unilateral withdrawal is the answer anymore, i still think Bush should be judged for this, i still think a MAJOR change of strategies is needed, but i don't think a withdrawal would help to solve the problems. As i said in this thread, a change is needed, but giving up on Iraq now would be an even bigger crime than the invasion itself, it would be a Rwanda like crime. The mistake have been done, it's time to help Iraquis now, and i don't think the way it is being done now is helping them at all...

    This we agree on.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Pearl Jam and toast
    Pearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    thankyougrandma wrote:
    I don't know, prove me there was more deaths before USA invasions. It's an easy concept, overthrow a government, and you're in for years of anarchy. But the USA govt. didn't think that way, it was the "with us or against us" policy going on at the time, no plans for the aftermath, it's like nobody in the war room asked "what will we do once we find those WMD's" (of course then the reasons change according to the trend of the moment).

    Today we can all admit that it is a huge mistake just by the results, and i still believe and hope that George W. Bush will someday have to answer these crimes in front of a court. Now don't be short by saying George Bush didn't killed anybody and it is the insurgent blablabla. Milosevic probably never killed anyone too, and the insurgency wouldn't exist without a USA war in this country.
    +1
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    inmytree wrote:
    here's what I do know...the 3000 plus US soldiers killed would not have been killed...the thousands injured would not have been injured...and car bombs did not go off on a daily basis....
    Go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe, I've got no problem with different beliefs and I will respect them all day long so much as they are founded on solid principles and arguements.

    But by your rationale, the sacrifice and struggle of the few is not worth the benefit of the many. This is surely an empty arguement, as both history and human nature have shown us over and over.

    It might sound good to talk about who wouldn't have died or what might have happened had the US not overthrown the government of Saddam Hussien. But when you frame the struggle of everyday Iraqi's in the context of history, your arguement is just a cheap shot based in nothing.

    How many thousands of blacks were lynched, beaten, unfairly imprisoned and had to face daily percecution, bigotry and state sponsored racism for decades in the American south?

    Do you not think the stuggles and sacrifice of so many who fought this system and this plague of American society were worth it? Do you think Martin Luther King Jr. would say his assisnation wasn't worth the impact it had on ending segregation? At any rate, I think you get my point. Things in life are bigger than individuals. They are bigger than public opinion or the distaste for a particular person.

    The issue in Iraq is security, bottom line. It's not about ideology or this or that. It's about people feeling and being safe, plain and simple. There is no breathing room for rational leaders to emerge and guide their followers to form a better, decent society. Becuase as soon as they emerge they are a target for assisanation. They will be murdered by radical elements who are hell bent on forcing their way of life on everyone else through acts of terror.

    I'm not talking about targeting Saddam's leadership with a precision-guided bomb that kills him and 15 civilians when it explodes. I'm talking about people who strap bombs to themselves and go into health clinics and markets and purposely strike down inocent women and children to achieve their political and religious goals.

    If somebody opposes the war, then fine - there are a million different reasons for me to respect that view. But yours, and about 90% of the other reasons people recklessly post on this forum are complete bullshit.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    NCfan wrote:
    Go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe, I've got no problem with different beliefs and I will respect them all day long so much as they are founded on solid principles and arguements.

    But by your rationale, the sacrifice and struggle of the few is not worth the benefit of the many. This is surely an empty arguement, as both history and human nature have shown us over and over.

    It might sound good to talk about who wouldn't have died or what might have happened had the US not overthrown the government of Saddam Hussien. But when you frame the struggle of everyday Iraqi's in the context of history, your arguement is just a cheap shot based in nothing.

    How many thousands of blacks were lynched, beaten, unfairly imprisoned and had to face daily percecution, bigotry and state sponsored racism for decades in the American south?

    Do you not think the stuggles and sacrifice of so many who fought this system and this plague of American society were worth it? Do you think Martin Luther King Jr. would say his assisnation wasn't worth the impact it had on ending segregation? At any rate, I think you get my point. Things in life are bigger than individuals. They are bigger than public opinion or the distaste for a particular person.

    The issue in Iraq is security, bottom line. It's not about ideology or this or that. It's about people feeling and being safe, plain and simple. There is no breathing room for rational leaders to emerge and guide their followers to form a better, decent society. Becuase as soon as they emerge they are a target for assisanation. They will be murdered by radical elements who are hell bent on forcing their way of life on everyone else through acts of terror.

    I'm not talking about targeting Saddam's leadership with a precision-guided bomb that kills him and 15 civilians when it explodes. I'm talking about people who strap bombs to themselves and go into health clinics and markets and purposely strike down inocent women and children to achieve their political and religious goals.

    If somebody opposes the war, then fine - there are a million different reasons for me to respect that view. But yours, and about 90% of the other reasons people recklessly post on this forum are complete bullshit.

    600,000 Iraqis have dies, that is not the few.
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    NCfan wrote:
    How many thousands of blacks were lynched, beaten, unfairly imprisoned and had to face daily percecution, bigotry and state sponsored racism for decades in the American south?

    Do you not think the stuggles and sacrifice of so many who fought this system and this plague of American society were worth it? Do you think Martin Luther King Jr. would say his assisnation wasn't worth the impact it had on ending segregation?
    Do you think any of this would have turned out better had Canada invaded us, overthrew our government, and attempted to remedy it themselves?
    NCfan wrote:
    The issue in Iraq is security, bottom line. It's not about ideology or this or that. It's about people feeling and being safe, plain and simple. There is no breathing room for rational leaders to emerge and guide their followers to form a better, decent society. Becuase as soon as they emerge they are a target for assisanation. They will be murdered by radical elements who are hell bent on forcing their way of life on everyone else through acts of terror.

    I'm not talking about targeting Saddam's leadership with a precision-guided bomb that kills him and 15 civilians when it explodes. I'm talking about people who strap bombs to themselves and go into health clinics and markets and purposely strike down inocent women and children to achieve their political and religious goals.
    Saddam provided security. That didn't help. What do you think we can do to stop people from attempting to achieve their religious goals? Saddam tried it by supressing the shit out of them - and it only worked as long as he was in power, and ended up in the deaths of hundreds of thousands (not to be confused with the 148 (one hundred and forty eight) that he was executed for). Is that the role we want?

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