michael moore on larry king

mookie blaylock 10 · July 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i was born dirt poor so the shoe was on the other foot. i'm giving back what i was given when i needed it.

i would think that you would be a little more understanding then.

onelongsong · July 2007

danny72688 wrote:

+1

My friend has been twisting my leg to see this movie and regurgitating "facts" he's heard about this movie. I refuse because I can't stand Michael Moore and his way left attitude (this is coming from a lefty mind you). I also can't stand how he completely shadows the other view.

Our health care is the way it is because of capitalism, and I personally think it's fine the way it is (in most cases).

that was cnn's point. only one side was presented and what was shown was edited and prearranged. they went to a canadian hospital and talked to patients on gurnies (sp?) waiting over 7 hours to be seen in the er. they talked to people in britain too.
you can't change things when you fill the mass's heads with worthless crap. give us the straight facts or give us nothing. people are impressionable and believe this junk.

onelongsong · July 2007

mookie blaylock 10 wrote:

i would think that you would be a little more understanding then.

i used to be. i used to give 50% of my net income to causes. the government changed the law to 10% so i paid taxes on 40% of what i gave. then i lived in the city for a while and decided people weren't worth it.

mookie blaylock 10 · July 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i used to be. i used to give 50% of my net income to causes. the government changed the law to 10% so i paid taxes on 40% of what i gave. then i lived in the city for a while and decided people weren't worth it.

i'm sorry, that's sad that your opinion of others has gone sour.

chopitdown · July 2007

mookie blaylock 10 wrote:

this article is a load of horseshit. it's based on the idea that other countires who use a socialized form of healthcare feel that their respective systems are perfect. a perfect system does not exist anywhere. there are many that are better than others, and many places within each country where conditions will be different than in another part of the country. countries generally recognize when their systems are having problems and try to correct those problems.

yes, I'll take the word of Michael Moore over the word of a physician who has practiced in both countries :rolleyes: The takehome is that not everyone IS happy with their healtsystem.

chopitdown · July 2007

onelongsong wrote:

te. a couple of reasons america will never have free healthcare is america has too many layabouts. .

i think the biggest reason is that free healthcare isn't free

onelongsong · July 2007

chopitdown wrote:

i think the biggest reason is that free healthcare isn't free

you said it all in one sentence.
americans won't pay the taxes of say france. most of the working class is struggling now. how can they pay higher taxes? for the rich; avoiding taxes is easy. there's always a loophole to jump through.

small town beck · July 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

In Canada dental work is not covered. You need a plan at your work or to buy into one. However tooth extraction is like $60 a tooth or something like that. Approx the same for cleanings.

I'm quite happy with the system in Canada. It's not super awesome, but it's certainly adequate, and it will keep your ass alive and healthy. I am looking at brain surgery in a few months btw... In reality, doctors can only do so much, the rest is mostly up to the individual.

The main thing is to be persistent and knowledgeable about your symptoms, condition etc..and get an umpteenth opinion if you want/need to (free).

There's always horror stories, but that rings true for everything that happens in life from going to the bathroom to sky diving.

Very well said, Roland. The system here isn't perfect but for the most part I am happy with it too. My mum rather got shafted with her health issues but I also have to realize that she wasn't as proactive with her own health as she needs to be. She is old school as in what the doctor says is golden. I forced her to see a specialist in a larger city and had orginally wanted her to go to Toronto to see someone. By the time I finally got her to Halifax her situ had declined as to there was no way to get her back to how she was they could only stop the progession. She struggles from day to day but she could be worse.

I hope your surgery goes well for you.

chopitdown · July 2007

onelongsong wrote:

you said it all in one sentence.
americans won't pay the taxes of say france. most of the working class is struggling now. how can they pay higher taxes? for the rich; avoiding taxes is easy. there's always a loophole to jump through.

the middle class can't pay more, w/o falling to the lower class. It seems the dems have all of these utopic ideas about helping everyone, but how will they be able to afford it? We already spend 46 % of our nations budget on entitlement programs...we cant just keep adding more and more.

Flannel Shirt · July 2007

I would gladly pay an extra 200 - 300 dollars per month in taxes for "free" Health Care. Yes, PER MONTH. I pay about 800 per month now for my family plan. 300 vs. 800...works for me.

It is a very sad world when people have walks and runs for cancer research, drug research, crohns research, etc, and in the end, the ones that benefit from all these great causes are the rich who can afford the treatments and transplants that the dollars raised came up with because the insurance companies will not pay for them and lord knows the average person cannot afford a 100,000 dollar surgery.

Hit the rich for a couple more bucks as well. They could easily afford it and help their fellow Americans in the process.

chopitdown · July 2007

Flannel Shirt wrote:

Hit the rich for a couple more bucks as well. They could easily afford it and help their fellow Americans in the process.

while i agree they can easily afford it; why should they be mandated to pick up the slack? If we go to a truly socialized health care system; I hope we also penalize people for obesity, smoking, drinking, eating fast food etc... If my money is going to be used to support someone else's healthcare on some level I had better have a say in the policy.

baraka · July 2007

chopitdown wrote:

the middle class can't pay more, w/o falling to the lower class. It seems the dems have all of these utopic ideas about helping everyone, but how will they be able to afford it? We already spend 46 % of our nations budget on entitlement programs...we cant just keep adding more and more.

Chopitdown, do you know exactly what falls under the umbrella of 'entitlement programs' or can you direct me to a link that breaks down this 46%? Does it, for example, include programs such as social security and medicare?

chopitdown · July 2007

baraka wrote:

Chopitdown, do you know exactly what falls under the umbrella of 'entitlement programs' or can you direct me to a link that breaks down this 46%? Does it, for example, include programs such as social security and medicare?

this is where i got that figure. "In fact, all defense spending amounts to just 23.6 percent of the budget, or about half what is spent on Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs." http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/democratic_debate_part_3.html

the factcheck article cited the Budget for the US in 2008...it's 336 pages long...i didn't read through it to verify the number, i hope you can understand

Flannel Shirt · July 2007

chopitdown wrote:

while i agree they can easily afford it; why should they be mandated to pick up the slack? If we go to a truly socialized health care system; I hope we also penalize people for obesity, smoking, drinking, eating fast food etc... If my money is going to be used to support someone else's healthcare on some level I had better have a say in the policy.

You my friend, are a hard ass.

Just help someone because you can. Simple as that. If you can help, do it.

There will be a revolution soon in this country (in this world) if the rich do not start giving back.

If you have health insurance, you money is being used to support someones healthcare.

chopitdown · July 2007

Flannel Shirt wrote:

You my friend, are a hard ass. Just help someone because you can. Simple as that. If you can help, do it.

There will be a revolution soon in this country (in this world) if the rich do not start giving back.

I believe we should help people, and I recognize that my view prob won't catch on, and I'm ok with it...I just wanted to argue for principle.

I'd also be happy if it just wasn't the rich making up the rules for everyone else.

Flannel Shirt wrote:

If you have health insurance, you money is being used to support someones healthcare.

I know, and I aint happy about it :cool:

Flannel Shirt · July 2007

If we can come up with a system that can help everyone get top notch grade A healthcare in this country, I am all for it. I truly believe there are people smart enought to put together a plan that works for all.

Therefore, I want those I put in office to get going on it (dont get me wrong, they are not the smart ones. they hire the smart ones).

baraka · July 2007

chopitdown wrote:

this is where i got that figure. "In fact, all defense spending amounts to just 23.6 percent of the budget, or about half what is spent on Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs." http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/democratic_debate_part_3.html

the factcheck article cited the Budget for the US in 2008...it's 336 pages long...i didn't read through it to verify the number, i hope you can understand

Thanks! I'm still trying to process that link you gave me, but here are some initial thoughts. I would suggest that every income bracket benefits from some sort of entitlement program, corporate welfare comes to mind. Also, as far as social security and medicare, is there an income requirement for these programs, or in other words, aren't these benefits paid to out every income bracket? It seems to me that it is the middle class is a strong supporter SS & medicare. The two largest welfare programs specifically for the poor are AFDC and food stamps, each take up only a fraction of the combined government budget, I believe. I think we need to be careful and clear what we include in these percentages. In other words I don't think you can blame welfare for all of runaway gov't spending.

baraka · July 2007

Flannel Shirt wrote:

There will be a revolution soon in this country (in this world) if the rich do not start giving back.

I do think the 'rich' could give more, but something that I pointed out numerous times in the charity thread is there ARE wealthy folks that DO give back and I think, instead of pointing the finger at all the greedy folks, we should be praising and pointing out those that make a difference. Those that have made a difference should be seen as the 'gold standard'. To be frank, in a free society, you can not tell someone what they can or can't do with their money. To do so would set a very dangerous precedent, even if the initial intention is pure. But, we can as a society can set the standard and possibly inspire someone to follow in the footsteps of some of the greatest philanthropists. Or at the very least, prompt some greedy jerk to donate to 'save face'.

onelongsong · July 2007

chopitdown wrote:

the middle class can't pay more, w/o falling to the lower class. It seems the dems have all of these utopic ideas about helping everyone, but how will they be able to afford it? We already spend 46 % of our nations budget on entitlement programs...we cant just keep adding more and more.

surferdude just posted this on another thread. it's so true i had to copy it here:

surferdude wrote:

What utter crock. Does the wrieter understand that a lot of peoples money is tied up doing things like employing others? If they were to just pull out that money what would we do wth all the unemployed? My biggest investments, property, sure don't generate a 5% cash return annually. All they do is appreciate in value. It makes me look richer on paper and that's it. The majority of most peoples real, cash wealth is only derived upon selling the asset and not from any sort of annual return. Selling the assets to generate cash flow would see a quick end to this endowment fund.

There is only one long term and lasting solution, fair trade policies and education. Money hand outs nad subsidies are just band aid solutions meant to stiop the slaughter in the short term.

gue_barium · July 2007

Moore is advocating. Lot's of people hate Michael Moore advocating. Moore knows this.

The betterment falls somewhere in between.

michael moore on larry king

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