sounds like a nice dream that will never happen. we've always had a military budget and always will. we have agreements with countries to protect them. when we're not using arms we're stocking up on them. the world is too volital (sp?) to slack off on our military. not too long ago north korea had IBMs with our name on them.
if you read the post on i believe page 1; you'd see that these nations with socialized healthcare are trying to establish private healthcare because the socialized medicine isn't working. in canada; you can wait up to 1 year for approval for an MRI. do you want your taxes doubled to receive that kind of service. if canada legalizes private healthcare it will have the same system as the us. private healthcare and socialized healthcare for those that can't afford private healthcare. which is about the same as our medicare system. i have medicare and i can get an MRI the day the doctor orders it.
someone had a post recently that said the US spends "just" 25% of its budget on defense spending..."JUST"! that's fucking ridiculous. i'm not sure how much we spend here in canada, but no doubt it's far too much. it's a waste of resources that could be used in better ways. again, fucking ridiculous. it's unforgivable.
there is not a large movement here to privated medicine. that is false and the feeling is very much the opposite. a small percentage of the population wants it, probably because they are wealthy and feel the need to appear superior to the majority.
waiting a year for an MRI? that's bullshit. i'm sure there are some cases where wait times are long, but it depends on the demand and the number of machines available. also, some cases seem to slip through the cracks...again, no system is perfect. i've never known anyone who has waited more than a week or two for minor injuries. serious problems are dealt with immediately. i've had to have a few, and i'm normally in the next day.
we pay taxes to make sure that everyone is treated equally and it is the case 9.9 times out of 10. it makes me sick to think that people have to go bankrupt, suffer, or pass money along to hospitals, insurance agencies, etc. in order to take care of their health and well being. it's beyond backwards and it's hypocritical of people and companies involved in privatized sytems. hippocratic oath?...no, hypocritical oath. it is immoral, unethical, and inhumane to deny certain people medical care based on their wealth or class status. it's primitive. it's sickening.
someone had a post recently that said the US spends "just" 25% of its budget on defense spending..."JUST"! that's fucking ridiculous. i'm not sure how much we spend here in canada, but no doubt it's far too much. it's a waste of resources that could be used in better ways. again, fucking ridiculous. it's unforgivable.
there is not a large movement here to privated medicine. that is false and the feeling is very much the opposite. a small percentage of the population wants it, probably because they are wealthy and feel the need to appear superior to the majority.
waiting a year for an MRI? that's bullshit. i'm sure there are some cases where wait times are long, but it depends on the demand and the number of machines available. also, some cases seem to slip through the cracks...again, no system is perfect. i've never known anyone who has waited more than a week or two for minor injuries. serious problems are dealt with immediately. i've had to have a few, and i'm normally in the next day.
we pay taxes to make sure that everyone is treated equally and it is the case 9.9 times out of 10. it makes me sick to think that people have to go bankrupt, suffer, or pass money along to hospitals, insurance agencies, etc. in order to take care of their health and well being. it's beyond backwards and it's hypocritical of people and companies involved in privatized sytems. hippocratic oath?...no, hypocritical oath. it is immoral, unethical, and inhumane to deny certain people medical care based on their wealth or class status. it's primitive. it's sickening.
Just as you say the one year wait for an MRI is basically an exaggeration, so are the ridiculous stories of people going bankrupt for healthcare. We have socialized medicine..it's just not fully funded by the federal gov't.
This hospital in the city I live in, is an example.
someone had a post recently that said the US spends "just" 25% of its budget on defense spending..."JUST"! that's fucking ridiculous. i'm not sure how much we spend here in canada, but no doubt it's far too much. it's a waste of resources that could be used in better ways. again, fucking ridiculous. it's unforgivable.
there is not a large movement here to privated medicine. that is false and the feeling is very much the opposite. a small percentage of the population wants it, probably because they are wealthy and feel the need to appear superior to the majority.
waiting a year for an MRI? that's bullshit. i'm sure there are some cases where wait times are long, but it depends on the demand and the number of machines available. also, some cases seem to slip through the cracks...again, no system is perfect. i've never known anyone who has waited more than a week or two for minor injuries. serious problems are dealt with immediately. i've had to have a few, and i'm normally in the next day.
we pay taxes to make sure that everyone is treated equally and it is the case 9.9 times out of 10. it makes me sick to think that people have to go bankrupt, suffer, or pass money along to hospitals, insurance agencies, etc. in order to take care of their health and well being. it's beyond backwards and it's hypocritical of people and companies involved in privatized sytems. hippocratic oath?...no, hypocritical oath. it is immoral, unethical, and inhumane to deny certain people medical care based on their wealth or class status. it's primitive. it's sickening.
canada isn't contracted to protect other countries. we are given land for military bases in exchange for protection. don't forget; in the 20th century europe was taken over by a dictator twice in 26 years. iraq was taken over by a dictator what; 17 years ago. whenever clinton put him in power. so we're not talking ancient history here.
the lawsuits against the canadian government paint a different picture than you do; if you live in a populated area. the post clearly stated that people in less populated areas get much faster service.
either way; nothing is free and you get what you pay for.
If you are in the top bracket, include your property tax with your income tax and you should easily be over 50%. Now, if you want to get even more disgusted, factor in your GST, as it also goes to the federal government. Wanna get picky? Add your provincial sales tax, and you will probably go over the 55% mark. Not kidding. And don't just say that canadian healthcare is a federal endeavour, because while it is run at the federal level, contributions are made at each level of government.
still nowhere near 50% ... i suppose if you don't make any deductions whatsoever and don't give to charity - but even then ... granted - i don't own a home so, i don't pay property taxes ... although indirectly i guess with rent ...
my biggest beef with our health care is that we spend so much money trying to treat people and nothing on preventing peeps from getting sick!!
Just as you say the one year wait for an MRI is basically an exaggeration, so are the ridiculous stories of people going bankrupt for healthcare. We have socialized medicine..it's just not fully funded by the federal gov't.
This hospital in the city I live in, is an example.
Study finds most bankruptcy filers had health insurance
BOSTON - Costly illnesses trigger about half of all personal bankruptcies, and most of those who go bankrupt because of medical problems have health insurance, according to findings from a Harvard University study to be released Wednesday.
Researchers from Harvard’s law and medical schools said the findings underscore the inadequacy of many private insurance plans that offer worst-case catastrophic coverage, but little financial security for less severe illnesses.
“Unless you’re Bill Gates, you’re just one serious illness away from bankruptcy,” said Dr. David Himmelstein, the study’s lead author and an associate professor of medicine. “Most of the medically bankrupt were average Americans who happened to get sick.”
The study, to be published online Wednesday by the journal Health Affairs, distributed questionnaires to 1,771 bankruptcy filers in 2001 in California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Texas. That year, there were 1.46 million personal bankruptcies in the United States.
More than 900 of those questioned underwent more detailed interviews about their financial and medical circumstances for what the authors say is the first in-depth study of medical causes of personal bankruptcies, which have risen rapidly in recent years.
Illness and medical bills were cited as the cause, at least in part, for 46.2 percent of the personal bankruptcies in the study. Himmelstein said the figure rose to 54.5 percent when three other factors were counted as medical-related triggers for bankruptcies: births, deaths and pathological gambling addiction.
The study estimates medical-caused bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans each year, counting debtors and their dependents, including 700,000 children.
Most were insured
Most of those seeking court protection from creditors had health insurance, with more than three-quarters reporting they had coverage at the start of the illness that triggered bankruptcy. The study said 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy, with illness frequently leading to the loss of both a job and insurance.
Out-of-pocket medical expenses covering co-payments, deductibles and uncovered health services averaged $13,460 for bankruptcy filers who had private insurance at the onset of illness, compared with $10,893 for those without coverage. Those who initially had private coverage but lost it during their illness faced the highest cost, an average of $18,005.
“We need to rethink health reform,” said Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, a study co-author and associate professor of medicine at Cambridge-based Harvard. “Covering the uninsured isn’t enough. We also must upgrade and guarantee continuous coverage for those who have insurance.”
Susan Pisano, a spokeswoman for America’s Health Insurance Plans, representing nearly 1,300 health insurance providers, said the study did not adequately explore the role that disability income protection plans and personal savings can play in helping someone with a medical problem avoid bankruptcy.
“It’s very important to ask questions about what the financial stressors are for American families, but we don’t think this study digs deeply enough,” Pisano said.
Middle-class hit hard
The findings indicate medical-related bankruptcies hit middle-class families hard — 56 percent of the filers owned a home, and the same number had attended college.
“Families with coverage faced unaffordable co-payments, deductibles and bills for uncovered items like physical therapy, psychiatric care and prescription drugs,” Himmelstein said.
The study, funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, did not examine how many bankruptcy filers were from dual-income families where both partners had insurance, Himmelstein said.
Jeff Morris, resident scholar at the American Bankruptcy Institute, founded by Congress in 1982 to analyze bankruptcy trends, said the Harvard findings roughly mirror those of a 1996 ABI study in which 57 percent of bankruptcy filers cited medical problems as a primary bankruptcy cause. Respondents in that study were more likely to cite three other factors as primary causes, including easy access to credit, job loss and financial mismanagement.
Morris said he was aware of no data indicating that the Harvard study, which was based on 2001 bankruptcy filings, does not accurately reflect current trends in medical-related bankruptcies.
“Medical coverage is becoming more for catastrophic loss than for intermediate expenses,” Morris said.
Police and fire services aren't privatized....why medical? Seems pretty silly indeed.
I also find it interesting when people with the "me first" mentality justify it with more of "me first"...hehe
Anyhow none of any of this or anything matters when you're permanently going down for the count.
Everything in the 9-5 "day to day" that we have all become so absorbed in becomes absolutely meaningless and trivial.
Universal health care for all. It's the right thing to do.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
someone had a post recently that said the US spends "just" 25% of its budget on defense spending..."JUST"! that's fucking ridiculous. i'm not sure how much we spend here in canada, but no doubt it's far too much. it's a waste of resources that could be used in better ways. again, fucking ridiculous. it's unforgivable.
there is not a large movement here to privated medicine. that is false and the feeling is very much the opposite. a small percentage of the population wants it, probably because they are wealthy and feel the need to appear superior to the majority.
waiting a year for an MRI? that's bullshit. i'm sure there are some cases where wait times are long, but it depends on the demand and the number of machines available. also, some cases seem to slip through the cracks...again, no system is perfect. i've never known anyone who has waited more than a week or two for minor injuries. serious problems are dealt with immediately. i've had to have a few, and i'm normally in the next day.
we pay taxes to make sure that everyone is treated equally and it is the case 9.9 times out of 10. it makes me sick to think that people have to go bankrupt, suffer, or pass money along to hospitals, insurance agencies, etc. in order to take care of their health and well being. it's beyond backwards and it's hypocritical of people and companies involved in privatized sytems. hippocratic oath?...no, hypocritical oath. it is immoral, unethical, and inhumane to deny certain people medical care based on their wealth or class status. it's primitive. it's sickening.
Just as you say the one year wait for an MRI is basically an exaggeration, so are the ridiculous stories of people going bankrupt for healthcare. We have socialized medicine..it's just not fully funded by the federal gov't.
This hospital in the city I live in, is an example.
http://www.coopergreenmercyhospital.org/
Remember, these exaggerations go both ways.
canada isn't contracted to protect other countries. we are given land for military bases in exchange for protection. don't forget; in the 20th century europe was taken over by a dictator twice in 26 years. iraq was taken over by a dictator what; 17 years ago. whenever clinton put him in power. so we're not talking ancient history here.
the lawsuits against the canadian government paint a different picture than you do; if you live in a populated area. the post clearly stated that people in less populated areas get much faster service.
either way; nothing is free and you get what you pay for.
still nowhere near 50% ... i suppose if you don't make any deductions whatsoever and don't give to charity - but even then ... granted - i don't own a home so, i don't pay property taxes ... although indirectly i guess with rent ...
my biggest beef with our health care is that we spend so much money trying to treat people and nothing on preventing peeps from getting sick!!
which is catering to corporations!
not an exaggeration...
Medical bills make up half of bankruptcies
Study finds most bankruptcy filers had health insurance
BOSTON - Costly illnesses trigger about half of all personal bankruptcies, and most of those who go bankrupt because of medical problems have health insurance, according to findings from a Harvard University study to be released Wednesday.
Researchers from Harvard’s law and medical schools said the findings underscore the inadequacy of many private insurance plans that offer worst-case catastrophic coverage, but little financial security for less severe illnesses.
“Unless you’re Bill Gates, you’re just one serious illness away from bankruptcy,” said Dr. David Himmelstein, the study’s lead author and an associate professor of medicine. “Most of the medically bankrupt were average Americans who happened to get sick.”
The study, to be published online Wednesday by the journal Health Affairs, distributed questionnaires to 1,771 bankruptcy filers in 2001 in California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Texas. That year, there were 1.46 million personal bankruptcies in the United States.
More than 900 of those questioned underwent more detailed interviews about their financial and medical circumstances for what the authors say is the first in-depth study of medical causes of personal bankruptcies, which have risen rapidly in recent years.
Illness and medical bills were cited as the cause, at least in part, for 46.2 percent of the personal bankruptcies in the study. Himmelstein said the figure rose to 54.5 percent when three other factors were counted as medical-related triggers for bankruptcies: births, deaths and pathological gambling addiction.
The study estimates medical-caused bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans each year, counting debtors and their dependents, including 700,000 children.
Most were insured
Most of those seeking court protection from creditors had health insurance, with more than three-quarters reporting they had coverage at the start of the illness that triggered bankruptcy. The study said 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy, with illness frequently leading to the loss of both a job and insurance.
Out-of-pocket medical expenses covering co-payments, deductibles and uncovered health services averaged $13,460 for bankruptcy filers who had private insurance at the onset of illness, compared with $10,893 for those without coverage. Those who initially had private coverage but lost it during their illness faced the highest cost, an average of $18,005.
“We need to rethink health reform,” said Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, a study co-author and associate professor of medicine at Cambridge-based Harvard. “Covering the uninsured isn’t enough. We also must upgrade and guarantee continuous coverage for those who have insurance.”
Susan Pisano, a spokeswoman for America’s Health Insurance Plans, representing nearly 1,300 health insurance providers, said the study did not adequately explore the role that disability income protection plans and personal savings can play in helping someone with a medical problem avoid bankruptcy.
“It’s very important to ask questions about what the financial stressors are for American families, but we don’t think this study digs deeply enough,” Pisano said.
Middle-class hit hard
The findings indicate medical-related bankruptcies hit middle-class families hard — 56 percent of the filers owned a home, and the same number had attended college.
“Families with coverage faced unaffordable co-payments, deductibles and bills for uncovered items like physical therapy, psychiatric care and prescription drugs,” Himmelstein said.
The study, funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, did not examine how many bankruptcy filers were from dual-income families where both partners had insurance, Himmelstein said.
Jeff Morris, resident scholar at the American Bankruptcy Institute, founded by Congress in 1982 to analyze bankruptcy trends, said the Harvard findings roughly mirror those of a 1996 ABI study in which 57 percent of bankruptcy filers cited medical problems as a primary bankruptcy cause. Respondents in that study were more likely to cite three other factors as primary causes, including easy access to credit, job loss and financial mismanagement.
Morris said he was aware of no data indicating that the Harvard study, which was based on 2001 bankruptcy filings, does not accurately reflect current trends in medical-related bankruptcies.
“Medical coverage is becoming more for catastrophic loss than for intermediate expenses,” Morris said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6895896/
I also find it interesting when people with the "me first" mentality justify it with more of "me first"...hehe
Anyhow none of any of this or anything matters when you're permanently going down for the count.
Everything in the 9-5 "day to day" that we have all become so absorbed in becomes absolutely meaningless and trivial.
Universal health care for all. It's the right thing to do.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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