Scientism

Abuskedti wrote:

Weather.. a fine example.

the weather report does a fantastic job of forcasting the weather.. Additionally they admit it is not an exact science, they provide additionaly percentages..

They are amazingly accurate .. so much more than you would be for planning your flying .. of picnics.. and they save lives..

Yet you conclude that they do a bad job because sometimes your wishes or guesses were on the losing side of the odds....

Of course you are not the only one... it is very common to bash the weather folks while always relying on them on a day to day basis..

This is an example of why there can be not truth

Well I can look out my window and be just accurate just as often as the scientific weather forecaster. And yes, I've tested this.

angelica wrote:

Are you saying it's untrue that science says what they cannot prove does not exist? An example: spiritual experiences. Science is not equipped to understand them yet, and science's way of dealing with that is to decide they are an illness. edit: because science cannot prove or conceive of the validity of a spiritual experience, science believes it's inability to be a factual understanding, and all kinds of spiritual emergence experiences are treated as a flaw/illness rather than as what they are that is truly appreciated by disciplines beyond science.

Tell me something, if a person is having spiritual experiences, why, wouldn't they seek out their priest? "Usually" when a person has had a spiritual experience it's because something has affected them is a very emotional way. This would seem like the time to call upon the church.

The event is usually an event of survival or tragedy so a person is being treated physically while trying to deal emotionally. This is were family, friends and a person's church has to play a role, not a rocket scientist.

puremagic wrote:

Tell me something, if a person is having spiritual experiences, why, wouldn't they seek out their priest? "Usually" when a person has had a spiritual experience it's because something has affected them is a very emotional way. This would seem like the time to call upon the church.

Many do consult with clerygy-folk. Others find other ways to help understand such dramatically unusual experiences--ie various movements. Some manage quite well on their own. Some are not so lucky, and already have very flimsy life coping mechanisms, and are entered into or further diagnosed within the mental healthy community. In my case, my spiritual experiences were quite different than what I was taught in church. For me to have gone to a church would have been like me consulting a crawling infant in trying to learn to run faster.

The event is usually an event of survival or tragedy so a person is being treated physically while trying to deal emotionally. This is were family, friends and a person's church has to play a role, not a rocket scientist.

First of all, while sometimes these events are precipitated by tragedy or survival, none of my spiritual experiences were. And the same goes in innumerable other cases. I'm wondering what your expertise is that you have these presumptions of "usually" regarding spiritual experiences and or delusions etc. What you allude to, in terms of finding other supports outside the medical system, points to the essential problem: our society, based upon a few hundred years of scientism including pervasive "objectivity" at the expense of integrated brain awareness, has by and large objectified human experience. This has permeated all levels of society, including family and church and all disciplines. While I did not personally consult clergy, in the natural course of my exuberance re: my experiences, my athiest family members pathologized my experience based on the science models of psychiatry, as per their ignorant lay-person views. Like Ahnimus does, or like lucylespian pathologizes Jesus' spiritual experiences.

I've actually found the psychiatric and psychology professions, in contrast, quite responsible in not crossing certain fine lines and invalidating people's experiences, excepting for the overview that spiritual experience equals delusion and therefore illness, which is big in that sense. Most health care workers go by what they are taught because the "expertise" filters 'down' to them. They are not equipped to discern such things. Again, it's the lack of general brain function balance at this time that has us distorted and imbalanced us in the western world as a whole. The mentally ill or others who step beyond the acceptable bounds of normal are merely exaggerations and reflections of problems in the systems. While the "norm" sleeps peacefully, they have the illusion it's all okay, and such problems are for others to be concerned with, people just don't recognize we all suffer for our ignorance.

scw156 wrote:

who needs drugs when you can read stuff like this. I feel like I'm tripping just reading some of this stuff.

You need drugs to even write stuff like this....ahahaa!

well maybe not...

onelongsong wrote:

i get it angelica. and i'm sure many others get it too. at this point your talking to a wall.
no disrespect intended to anyone; but my grandfather used to say:
never try to teach a pig to sing. it annoys the pig and wastes your time.

Thanks onelongsong for your support. I realize only those with the ability to see and understand will. You either get it or you don't.

I find I learn a lot debating these issues, and it helps me to define my own understandings on the subject. If others read it or not, believe it or not, that's out of my hands.