Gun remark makes outdoorsman an outcast

onelongsong · February 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Collin, onelongsong has mentioned before that he has been held at gunpoint.
Perhaps his views are tainted by this memory. Victims of violent crime are more likely to be more vigilant next time. And to be more prepared to defend themselves after an attack. Having said that, given that he is generally a peaceful person, I think you'd find that what he says, how he feels and what would actually happen are all very different things. And that goes for anybody.

No one can know what they would do in these situations.

i'm not alone. a famous attorney; catherine cryer i believe; was a strick anti-gun lobbiest. a close friend of hers had someone break into her house and rape her. her friend said she wished she had a gun in her house to protect herself. after a long conversation; catherine now carries a gun. and is a big pro-gun advocate for self defence. some victims have nightmares for years to come. some live in fear. some realize that the police are never at the scene of a crime until the crime is over. police are only for clean up.
when i was held at gunpoint; my gun was in my jeep. but i knew if i had it; i could draw it while dropping to 1 knee and kill the attacker before he knew what was happening.

soulsinging · February 2007

onelongsong wrote:

agreed. you can't use an old book which is why I didn't bring it up. i'm only stating the way things are in my state. take your crime to somewhere that disarm citizens.
when i lived near chicago; a few towns banned all guns within the city limits. burglary and home invasions jumped. if i were a criminal; i'd gladly travel to a place where i knew the homeowner couldn't defend him/herself.

nowhere did i advocate banning guns. im talking about ways to stem the flow of guns into the hands of those who have no business using them. the common criminal can walk into a gun store and still buy a gun as long as his record is clean. you dont prevent guns from getting there until it's already too late. make the first step harder, to weed out those who only want a gun becos it's the easy way. those who wants to use them for good purpose will take those steps. those who just want a quick and easy way to mug someone aren't going to take the time to go to classes and pay money for them and so on and so forth. you impose the burden up front, not after the sale. this would not deprive anyone of guns who will use them responsibly (and would lessen the restrictions on those people) but would put more blocks into the path of those who want to use them recklessly.

Collin · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

nowhere did i advocate banning guns. im talking about ways to stem the flow of guns into the hands of those who have no business using them. the common criminal can walk into a gun store and still buy a gun as long as his record is clean. you dont prevent guns from getting there until it's already too late. make the first step harder, to weed out those who only want a gun becos it's the easy way. those who wants to use them for good purpose will take those steps. those who just want a quick and easy way to mug someone aren't going to take the time to go to classes and pay money for them and so on and so forth. you impose the burden up front, not after the sale. this would not deprive anyone of guns who will use them responsibly (and would lessen the restrictions on those people) but would put more blocks into the path of those who want to use them recklessly.

I completely agree with this.

ThumbingMyWay32 · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

the common criminal can walk into a gun store and still buy a gun as long as his record is clean.

I would like to suggest that someone with a clean record would not yet be classified as a common criminal.

Collin · February 2007

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

I would like to suggest that someone with a clean record would not yet be classified as a common criminal.

I'm a criminal and I don't have a record:D

Well actually, I'm not a criminal until I get caught

ThumbingMyWay32 · February 2007

Collin wrote:

Well actually, I'm not a criminal until I get caught

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

onelongsong · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

nowhere did i advocate banning guns. im talking about ways to stem the flow of guns into the hands of those who have no business using them. the common criminal can walk into a gun store and still buy a gun as long as his record is clean. you dont prevent guns from getting there until it's already too late. make the first step harder, to weed out those who only want a gun becos it's the easy way. those who wants to use them for good purpose will take those steps. those who just want a quick and easy way to mug someone aren't going to take the time to go to classes and pay money for them and so on and so forth. you impose the burden up front, not after the sale. this would not deprive anyone of guns who will use them responsibly (and would lessen the restrictions on those people) but would put more blocks into the path of those who want to use them recklessly.

if i were going to committ a crime; i would not buy a legal gun. i'd buy one off the street. then i'd modify the rifling so it couldn't be identified.

Jeanie · February 2007

Collin wrote:

Sure there may be a difference but I think it's rather sick and sad that someone says he'd have no problem with killing someone over a candy bar or whatever.
If that doesn't upset people, there's something wrong with the people. It just proves how fucked up and twisted this world really is.

People say things all the time Collin. They are only words. You have to decide if what they are saying is valid or not. Certainly don't need to be getting so upset about them, when it's actions that count in this case.
And this world is not fucked up and twisted. People do what they can to get through each day. Given the way the world is, I think if you look, you'll find many fine examples as to why this world is not fucked up or twisted. Depends on how you look at it.

Collin wrote:

He wasn't my priest, he was my teacher. I truly believe he'd always do what he did.

I realise that you said he was your teacher, but you also said he was a priest. I was simply trying not to offend you by not referring to him correctly.
Seems I've managed that anyway.

And great if you truly believe that. Belief in other people is an excellent thing to have.

And I truly hope that he always lives up to your belief in him.

soulsinging · February 2007

onelongsong wrote:

if i were going to committ a crime; i would not buy a legal gun. i'd buy one off the street. then i'd modify the rifling so it couldn't be identified.

how do you think those guns get onto the street to be sold illegally? most of them are legally bought handguns that get onto the streets becos we let any idiot buy a gun, then someone steals it or they get short on cash and pawn it to someone. these handguns flooding our streets are not being smuggled across the border with ak-47s. they are produced, bought, and sold here in the us under current gun laws and then handled carelessly. you said yourself assault rifles are rarely used in crimes. this is why im talking about a system that deters careless idiots from buying guns legally in the first place and offering incentives/penalties so that they are handled with care.

it would take time for such policies to have an impact becos there are already a lot of weapons out there, but in the long term, setting up a system that prevents careless people from acquiring a gun instead of waiting until after they get one and do something dumb with it to take it away from them is what needs to be done. it's time we get past worthless ad-hoc fixes like assault weapons bans and waiting periods that have proven ineffective.

soulsinging · February 2007

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

I would like to suggest that someone with a clean record would not yet be classified as a common criminal.

like collin pointed out, currently, as long as you've not been caught yet we'll sell you a weapon. that is stupid. put the obstacles up front not after the fact.

Jeanie · February 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i'm not alone. a famous attorney; catherine cryer i believe; was a strick anti-gun lobbiest. a close friend of hers had someone break into her house and rape her. her friend said she wished she had a gun in her house to protect herself. after a long conversation; catherine now carries a gun. and is a big pro-gun advocate for self defence. some victims have nightmares for years to come. some live in fear. some realize that the police are never at the scene of a crime until the crime is over. police are only for clean up.
when i was held at gunpoint; my gun was in my jeep. but i knew if i had it; i could draw it while dropping to 1 knee and kill the attacker before he knew what was happening.

Yes, I understand exactly what you are saying. And I must confess that there have been certain situations and individuals who have come into my life and perpertrated severe acts of violence against me, and I too have wished to have been able to retaliate with violence at the time. I've even planned to and made enquiries about retaliating against them after the fact. But I'm glad I didn't.
Because I know myself. And I know that I would feel bad if I succumbed to that part of myself. That if I responded to their bad behaviour with bad behaviour of my own that I would only be lessening me. And that's like giving them extra. But that's not to say that it's wrong for anyone else. I can only know myself. And judge what is the right thing to do for me.
I would never pressume to judge the best course of action for someone else.
People need to do what they think is the right thing at the time for them.

And I guess the whole thing is a moot point for me anyway, because I live in a relatively gun free society and I'm very glad of it. It's not a way of thinking that I'd like to take on.

onelongsong · February 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Yes, I understand exactly what you are saying. And I must confess that there have been certain situations and individuals who have come into my life and perpertrated severe acts of violence against me, and I too have wished to have been able to retaliate with violence at the time. I've even planned to and made enquiries about retaliating against them after the fact. But I'm glad I didn't.
Because I know myself. And I know that I would feel bad if I succumbed to that part of myself. That if I responded to their bad behaviour with bad behaviour of my own that I would only be lessening me. And that's like giving them extra. But that's not to say that it's wrong for anyone else. I can only know myself. And judge what is the right thing to do for me.
I would never pressume to judge the best course of action for someone else.
People need to do what they think is the right thing at the time for them.

And I guess the whole thing is a moot point for me anyway, because I live in a relatively gun free society and I'm very glad of it. It's not a way of thinking that I'd like to take on.

killing your first person is hard. especially if you look into their eyes. but after that it isn't that bad. when you exterminate vermin; you do society a favour.

soulsinging · February 2007

onelongsong wrote:

killing your first person is hard. especially if you look into their eyes. but after that it isn't that bad. when you exterminate vermin; you do society a favour.

who was first and how many times have you done it? have you stood trial for them all? are you batman?

Jeanie · February 2007

onelongsong wrote:

killing your first person is hard. especially if you look into their eyes. but after that it isn't that bad. when you exterminate vermin; you do society a favour.

Is that so? What on earth are we going to do with you?

Jeanie · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

..........are you batman?

What are you implying?

soulsinging · February 2007

Jeanie wrote:

What are you implying?

well, he sounds like either he fancies himself some sort of bad ass tough guy killer man, or he's become a borderline psychotic vigilante. the latter would make him batman. the former would make him a tool. but in either case, i rather doubt he's killed a couple people like he claims. if he has, he's an idiot to be bragging about it on a message board.

Jeanie · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

well, he sounds like either he fancies himself some sort of bad ass tough guy killer man, or he's become a borderline psychotic vigilante. the latter would make him batman. the former would make him a tool. but in either case, i rather doubt he's killed a couple people like he claims. if he has, he's an idiot to be bragging about it on a message board.

Nothing wrong with Batman ss! Bamm! Kapow!!

Think maybe my attempt at humour was lost on you today.

Never mind.

Maybe he's just trying to get a rise out of you?

soulsinging · February 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Nothing wrong with Batman ss! Bamm! Kapow!!

Think maybe my attempt at humour was lost on you today.

Never mind.

Maybe he's just trying to get a rise out of you?

i caught it after i replied. i dig batman too... watched batman begins last night in fact.

anyway, he replied to you, not me. so dont know why he be trying to get the rise out of me...

onelongsong · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

who was first and how many times have you done it? have you stood trial for them all? are you batman?

you don't stand trial for self defence. there's only a trial if there's a question about self defence. when self defence is clear; there is nothing to charge you with.

let me ask you; if you're a victim of a violent crime; and you give up your car, wallet; or whatever; and let the person get away with it; are you not partially responsable for him victimizing the next person? let me put it this way; if i let the guy go when i could have stopped him; am i not somehow responsable if he kills an innocent the next day?
i'm not talking about the city close your eyes mentality. i mean; what happened to one's responsability to the community? and i don't mean vigilanty behavior. i watch out for every kid i see. i watch over everyones house and property. not intentionally; but if i happen to be on your block i'll notice something out of place and try to correct it. if your children are playing in the yard and a suspicious car is about; i'll hang around to make sure the kids are ok. and this has nothing to do with guns. i don't carry a gun in my town. i don't have to beause at least 50% of the residents are carrying so i'm protected. we protect eachother.
that being said; the result has been no violent crime in decades. no ones had the need to even expose a weapon.

Jeanie · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

i caught it after i replied. i dig batman too... watched batman begins last night in fact. anyway, he replied to you, not me. so dont know why he be trying to get the rise out of me...

Oh good!

Thought maybe I was talking Klingon or something!

Yeah, I love the old Batman. So camp!! So much fun!!

Lot less dark than the new stuff, although I love them too! Especially Christian Bale. Mmmmm.......oh that's right that's another thread! hehe!

I don't know ss, but people do do that around here! Or so I've noticed!

Gun remark makes outdoorsman an outcast

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