Capitalism V Communism

angelica wrote:

You say: "The man who points a gun at you is a man telling you not to think. He tells you to sacrifice your mind for your fear. I seek to disappoint such men."

It sounds like you have some preconceptions as to the reasons someone would pull a gun.

Such preconceptions sound like they are predetermining your intent prior to being in a situation with a gun facing you so that at the time you might be predisposed to act in a programmed way. If you lean towards such a predisposition, aren't you preplanning to give your logical thought processes to this theoretical person in advance?

When we believe that our assessment of the intentions of another is the same as their actual intentions, that's considered being egocentric in psychological terms.

It is considered not having a realistic appraisal of the situation before us.

If we cannot realistically appraise a situation in advance because we do no know the variables, how can we plan responding rationally and logically?

I would think the only way is to clear the mind of such preconceptions, prejudgments, predeterminations and bias.

angelica wrote:

Like I say: preconception

You have your one motive assigned to any type of gun pulling--that is prejudice.

You have in advance objectified that human being, which essentially assures you will not see the human being before you if you find yourself in such a situation.

Therefore, you will not respond to the situation, but to the idea you are conditioning yourself to "guard" against. It sounds to me that this idea is your own personal boogie man.

It sounds like you are quite tunnel-visioned here. That's your option. Acting from a narrow-minded perspective of being "right" in a prejudged manner is not my favourite option. I definitely don't consider it a valid one in advance, when I am able to think through possibilites and potentialities. I generally consider it a poor option when caught off guard by unseen possibilities to make my decisions based on prejudgments for that matter.

The problem is we are not talking about "what is a gun".

We are talking about potentially killing or maiming another human being.

I would think you would want to make such an important decision based on information you were being informed with at the time, rather than through the lens of "boogie man" that you imagine based on who-knows-what.

angelica wrote:

You have prejudged a situation that has not yet happened. Therefore you are theoretically willing to act on a prejudgment.

Prejudgment is prejudgment. It's not about accurately assessing the situation as it arises.

It's about ingraining those grooves in your mind so that when the time arises, you act as programmed. If you are comfortable with that, there's not much I can say.

These so-called men with guns are a figment of your imagination right now.

You obviously fear them enough to prepare yourself to kill them.

That they are products of your own thought processes and emotions. You have conjured up a stereotype of "men with guns" and this illusion, laced with your fear has you well-prepared to meet with said stereotype. Unfortunately real humans in the world are not just illusions of an ego-centric mindset.

If you don't see that dehumanising people you've not yet met is a bit of a mountain, I'm not sure I can help.

If you don't understand that such dehumanisation and stereotypes can actually create that which you fear, I again and not sure I can help.

For sure. I'm big on not dehumanising people to fit my biases and preconceptions. I dislike being objectified, and reduced to a cartoon version of a person, so I choose not to do it to others if at all possible.

If you get this, I think you would acknowledge the validity of what I'm saying.

Again, if you don't see that viewing a person as a 2-d caricature version of a person culled from your imagination, rather than who they are, I don't think there is much more I can add.

angelica wrote:

Then hopefully this is one life lesson you learn in ways that don't entail taking the life of another. You clearly have your mind made up, so I'll save my breath.

It makes a lot of sense, though that you seem to have that "glitch" in that you can't get past the "gun to your head" thing.

It's all just a little too ironic for me looking in from the outside. Apparently you don't get the irony.

You are familiar with the idea that we naturally justify our own behaviours but villify others for the same behaviour, right?

For example, those who come after you with a gun will most likely not be Uncle Sam or El Kabong.

It's more likely to be someone whose been stripped by society in a real sense.

angelica wrote:

Oh, you misunderstand. I don't think you have your mind made up that you will kill someone. I think you have your mind made up that "EVERY PERSON who pulls a gun..." or "The man who points a gun at you ....". The rest of the preconception follows.

I'm talking about the idea that you have a gun to your head by those who "force" you to pay taxes and follow laws, etc.

I'm saying that when you're walking around ready to use a gun against a figment of your imagination

it's not a wonder that you have a haunting sense of having a gun to your head when it does not actually exist. Unless.... (see next comment)

This is one story I love to hear! It might clear up a thing or two.

farfromglorified wrote:

Ok, cool. Now, would you consider the following a preconception in any negative sense?

"Every person who holds a gun on you and makes a demand is a person holding a gun on you and is making a demand"

Are you suggesting that they would not "force" me with their guns if my will was the opposite of their purpose?

I would never attempt to shoot a figment of my imagination.

I've been physically arrested three times in my life. Each time against my will. Each time physically restrained. Each time with a very literal gun pointed at me. Each time the result of actions that did not harm a single human being but rather simply went against what the laws of the state or the perceptions of an office mandated.

Regardless, however, one need only to listen to lawmakers to understand that their guns most certainly are the second half to the following statement:

"Do this, or else"

farfromglorified wrote:

I haven't seen the film. Can you provide me an example of what I'm shooting?

Certainly not.

surferdude wrote:

Capitalism does not put profit before and above people. INor does it kill the planet or do any of the other things you ascribe to it.

Capitalism does allow a person to use their own morals in running their own business. If the person has no connection with his/her community the they may run it in a greedy way. On the other hand if the business owner is compassionate then that too will reflect in the business. Just look at some of the amazing work that Gates is doing.

As far as the environment goes communism was by far the worst. They had no reason to improve as they had no competition. Communism has been the favored form of economy for most dictators.

It always puzzles me that it seems to be the people who complain the most and loudest about the government also sing the praises of a government run economy.

ryan198 wrote:

I'm not singing the praises of anything here...but doesn't Bill Gates ability to do good rely on the fact that he has nearly unlimited power and can "afford" to do good as a result of this power. Secondly isn't he rich off the backs of the poor? So how much "good" does he have to do to make up for his bullshit?