Is homosexuality a disease?

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanie wrote:
    That's correct catefrances both of them voted against it and disappointingly so did Peter Garrett. (I'm finding it harder and harder to reconcile the man we now see with the man I thought I knew)
    Anyway we've still got a long way to go as the ammendments to the legislation won't be finalized until next year and I'm a firm believer in there's many a slip between cup and lip. :)

    peter garrett lost me the minute he sold his soul to the devil that is the establishment. i do not believe you can rot the system from the inside. or exact any real change if you are kowtowing to party lines that are designed to censure original thought and practice. quite honestly i believe the Labor party is their own worst enemy.
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  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    onelongsong wrote:
    i did do it and didn't find out the full ramifications until i started working with kids. a parent calling a kid a f'n idoit or worthless stays with them longer than most think.
    I think it depends on a lot of other factors. Obviously, it's not something that anyone wants to hear, but if it happens with any frequency at all, or if the parent doesn't apologize later, that makes a huge difference. There is not one person alive over the age of about four that hasn't said something that they regretted before they were even finished saying it. Kids aren't stupid, they can understand that if you admit your mistake. I see the bigger problem as being how few parents are willing to admit to their kids that they were wrong.

    I'm certainly not condoning verbal abuse, I think it's at least as damaging as physical abuse. I'm just saying that a once-in-a-blue-moon hurtful remark in an otherwise loving household doesn't constitute abuse.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    catefrances wrote:
    peter garrett lost me the minute he sold his soul to the devil that is the establishment.

    Me too! It left me completely reeling because it negated all that I thought he stood for! And I had been such a fan for such a long time. It was completely out of left field as far as I could see and makes it extremely difficult to listen to Midnight oil anymore which is like excising a greater part of my soul.
    catefrances wrote:
    i do not believe you can rot the system from the inside. or exact any real change if you are kowtowing to party lines that are designed to censure original thought and practice.

    I agree. At the very least if he felt that he MUST join a political party he would have been better served joining The Greens but I agree that he would have been able to more effectively bring about change by remaining an agitator.
    catefrances wrote:
    quite honestly i believe the Labor party is their own worst enemy.

    I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!! I have this theory that they have been infiltrated by secret Liberal sleeper cells that only come out to distract the rest of the party from putting forward effective policy by continually agitating for leadership challenges! :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    Very funny :D

    So why do you think that so many people are opposed to it on ethical grounds. The reason I ask is because it seems (and I could be very wrong) that the majority of Americans don't support it (or is that just because your voices have been hijacked by the religious right?) and up until this week I though we Aussies would be following suit (because most of us have been completely hijacked by the religious element in our current government) but amazingly they have just passed the debate through both houses in favor of the research.

    I think in most cases it's either religious or lack of understanding of prenatal development.

    All too often, stem-cell research is referred to as fetal stem-cell research. When the majority of lab grown research doesn't make it to the fetal stage. It's mostly embryonic or zygotic from what I understand.

    For people that are non-religious and aware of the prenatal development. There is something about it that just sits wrong, maybe they are PETA members. I don't know.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    hippiemom wrote:
    The majority of Americans DO support it. Unfortunately, they often vote for politicians who are opposed to it, because they base their vote on other issues. But in the one state where it was on the ballot this year (Missouri, a conservative state), it was approved.

    This is great news to hear hippiemom! Unfortunately we live in a bit of a media fog here since Rupert took over the world! It so hard even to cut through all the local crap so that I feel swamped trying to work out were the US stands. It's good to know that it is being supported , particularly by conservative states. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I think in most cases it's either religious or lack of understanding of prenatal development.

    All too often, stem-cell research is referred to as fetal stem-cell research. When the majority of lab grown research doesn't make it to the fetal stage. It's mostly embryonic or zygotic from what I understand.

    For people that are non-religious and aware of the prenatal development. There is something about it that just sits wrong, maybe they are PETA members. I don't know.
    Most Americans support it, but of the ones who don't, your reasons account for a huge number of them.

    I've never personally discussed it with anyone who didn't support it. My son-in-law, however, grew up in rural PA, and he took his mom to a church event where it came up, and they were talking about the poor little babies in test tubes!!! That is seriously the picture they have in their minds when you talk about embryonic stem cells. How do you even begin to talk to such people?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hippiemom wrote:
    Most Americans support it, but of the ones who don't, your reasons account for a huge number of them.

    I've never personally discussed it with anyone who didn't support it. My son-in-law, however, grew up in rural PA, and he took his mom to a church event where it came up, and they were talking about the poor little babies in test tubes!!! That is seriously the picture they have in their minds when you talk about embryonic stem cells. How do you even begin to talk to such people?

    Yea, that's messed up.

    I've also heard the argument that we should no play God. Somehow using stem-cells is playing God. That's assuming of course.. there is a God.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I think we need a legal moral line, for example, the second or third trimester might be too late to abort ethically speaking.

    But concerning wether or not we should abort period. That should be left up to the individual, the same with stem-cells.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I think in most cases it's either religious or lack of understanding of prenatal development.

    I guess what I don't understand is why is it so abhorent to people on religious or moral grounds when many of them seem so ready to support war. It's no secret I have no religious affiliations but perhaps I'm immoral too because I think it is far worse to kill a fully grown human being that can stand on his own simply to procur oil or some other financial advantage.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    All too often, stem-cell research is referred to as fetal stem-cell research. When the majority of lab grown research doesn't make it to the fetal stage. It's mostly embryonic or zygotic from what I understand.
    I went to a public lecture about this recently which was asking us to support The Lockhart Report and during the lecture they spoke about being able to create stem cells by fertalizing the nucleus with other tissue stem cells which would have no potential for ever being a human being. Does this sound correct? I felt like I was sitting at the airport for much of it! :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    I guess what I don't understand is why is it so abhorent to people on religious or moral grounds when many of them seem so ready to support war. It's no secret I have no religious affiliations but perhaps I'm immoral too because I think it is far worse to kill a fully grown human being that can stand on his own simply to procur oil or some other financial advantage.

    I went to a public lecture about this recently which was asking us to support The Lockhart Report and during the lecture they spoke about being able to create stem cells by fertalizing the nucleus with other tissue stem cells which would have no potential for ever being a human being. Does this sound correct? I felt like I was sitting at the airport for much of it! :D

    Haha, yea, I'm pretty sure there isn't any fertilization involved either. They basically microwave the egg and a few cells pop up and they use those. But the egg is toast after that.

    It should be noted too that each individual ovary and each individual sperm cell is an organism all on it's own. Every time a woman has a period or every time a guy jacks off they are killing something.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    hippiemom wrote:
    Most Americans support it, but of the ones who don't, your reasons account for a huge number of them.

    I've never personally discussed it with anyone who didn't support it. My son-in-law, however, grew up in rural PA, and he took his mom to a church event where it came up, and they were talking about the poor little babies in test tubes!!! That is seriously the picture they have in their minds when you talk about embryonic stem cells. How do you even begin to talk to such people?

    That is truly offensive! (If we can't control you with fire & brimstone we'll mozz you with scare campaigns and ignorance!) Why do people do this?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Tell you what, I'll find a good video lecture on stem-cell research and post it.

    It's going to take me a while to weed through the religious crap though.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Jeanie wrote:
    That is truly offensive! (If we can't control you with fire & brimstone we'll mozz you with scare campaigns and ignorance!) Why do people do this?
    I don't know if anyone actually told them this. I tend to think it's more that's what pops into their head when they hear the word "embryo." They're all heavily into the so-called pro-life thing, so they're used to seeing pictures of embryos (way beyond the blastocyst stage, obviously) blown up and put on posters, so when they hear that word they picture a teeny tiny baby. I doubt their pastor is telling them blatant lies, they're just completely ignorant of the facts. And of course, anyone who isn't "pro-life" is a baby-hating fiend, so they're able to actually believe that a bunch of Alzheimer's researchers have babies in jars lining the shelves of their labs. It's truly bizarre. My son-in-law tried to inject a little reality into their meeting, but everyone was ganging up on him, he wound up shaking his head and telling them "go read a book, for crying out loud." His mom was not pleased, haha.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It should be noted too that each individual ovary and each individual sperm cell is an organism all on it's own. Every time a woman has a period or every time a guy jacks off they are killing something.

    I agree! Unfortunately the righteous have already hijacked this because isn't it a sin to use a condom or to masturbate in the catholic religion? Why am I singing "every sperm is sacred" over & over in my head??!! :D
    It's all a plot to control women anyway!
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Tell you what, I'll find a good video lecture on stem-cell research and post it.

    It's going to take me a while to weed through the religious crap though.

    That would be excellent, thank you. And better you than me with the religious crap! I really have a low tolerance for it! Break out in ranting attacks! :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Jeanie wrote:
    I agree! Unfortunately the righteous have already hijacked this because isn't it a sin to use a condom or to masturbate in the catholic religion? Why am I singing "every sperm is sacred" over & over in my head??!! :D
    It's all a plot to control women anyway!
    HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    As I was typing my last post, I was singing that song to myself! You know what they say about great minds ;)

    :D:D:D
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    That would be excellent, thank you. And better you than me with the religious crap! I really have a low tolerance for it! Break out in ranting attacks! :D

    This is probably going to be the best lecture series online, you just need to register and they send you a free poster.

    http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/stemcells/lectures.html

    Lecture One—Understanding Embryonic Stem Cells
    56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1

    Lecture Two—Adult Stem Cells and Regeneration
    56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1

    Lecture Three—Coaxing Embryonic Stem Cells
    56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1

    Lecture Four—Stem Cells and the End of Aging
    56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1

    You can also order all of their lectures on DVD for free, but this one isn't available until some time next year.

    EDIT: Damn, need realplayer, I don't have it at work, but I've watched all of the HHMI holiday lectures and they are really good.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    hippiemom wrote:
    I don't know if anyone actually told them this. I tend to think it's more that's what pops into their head when they hear the word "embryo." They're all heavily into the so-called pro-life thing, so they're used to seeing pictures of embryos (way beyond the blastocyst stage, obviously) blown up and put on posters, so when they hear that word they picture a teeny tiny baby. I doubt their pastor is telling them blatant lies, they're just completely ignorant of the facts. And of course, anyone who isn't "pro-life" is a baby-hating fiend, so they're able to actually believe that a bunch of Alzheimer's researchers have babies in jars lining the shelves of their labs. It's truly bizarre. My son-in-law tried to inject a little reality into their meeting, but everyone was ganging up on him, he wound up shaking his head and telling them "go read a book, for crying out loud." His mom was not pleased, haha.

    Well I am very pleased with his efforts! It takes a brave man to stand up to the uninformed! :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    Well I am very pleased with his efforts! It takes a brave man to stand up to the uninformed! :)

    Haha, I'm watching this video on google video
    http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-4149054203035932863&q=stem+cell

    "If you think a blastocyst is the same as a baby, you obviously aren't doing this research."
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    hippiemom wrote:
    HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    As I was typing my last post, I was singing that song to myself! You know what they say about great minds ;)

    :D:D:D


    Clearly we are on the same page! :D:D:D

    It's from Monty Python? Yes? My memory is not what is used to be! Really need that stem cell research! ;)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift

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