Cho Seung-Hui video/pics/manifesto

It is so easy to look at this guy as a nutcase, loony, crazy...whatever. Yes, he probably is crazy...but what is he saying?

Is this a sign that the elistist fashion with which college campuses in particular conduct the business of education is causing resentful feelings? Fraternities and Sororities make a general practice of excluding people. Why is THIS accepted?

Plus, has anyone noticed that the media coverage has been mostly white, affluent kids? Just because you are rich, that does not mean you are better than anyone else.

I'm not saying the guy was right. Murder is wrong in any way (war included!) I'm just saying that the way we do things in this world needs to be tweeked. Let us reward merit, not money. Let us give help to a bright kid with no political friends in the family. I'm talking about more than scholarships. You know what, I am my brothers keeper...and so are you. If a child dies of starvation in your state...it is your fault! Get off your butt and do something good for the world!!!

I can't help but rant. I am a college graduate. I remember the sorority girls and frat guys. I remember the way they acted. I remember the way faculty and staff treated the frat guys and sorority girls. I remember sitting in class watching them get extensions on their papers because they had some sort of frat house thing and didn't get their work done. Mine was completed and turned in on time. I got the same A.

This guy may have been the craziest person on the planet...and most of what he had to say was just weird and stupid...but there are some things in there we should look at...

KidCarnivore wrote:

Are you fucking retarded? Yeah, let's take a very serious look at the intelligent and poignant things he had to say...

Why wouldn't we take a look at it? Aren't we interested in preventing such things in the future? How can we do that if we don't understand why they happen?

JD Sal wrote:

I haven't seen the video yet, but I think we're going to find out soon that this guy was either sexually or physically abused as a child, or both.

It sounds like the abuse may have been going on on campus.
Beyond all gun control discussions, I just can't wrap my head around the fact that someone who had been committed to a mental health facilities and had been considered a danger to himself and others could buy 2 guns cause (as the guy who sold them to him said) he looked clean and well dressed. "we wouldn't sell a gun to someone who didn't look right"

KidCarnivore wrote:

We absolutely should look at it. However, there's a difference between looking at what he said and giving it any credit. Placing any minute amount of blame on fraternities is ridiculous and sickening.

It's not about blame. It's about finding out how people like this are created, so we can stop creating them. Sure, there was a lot more going on here than being rejected or bullied by some frat boys, I think that's obvious, but things build up over time and you never really know what's going to be the final straw. No, of course you don't blame some fraternity for this atrocity, but it's never a bad idea to take a look at how any element of society may be having a negative affect on the larger society.

hippiemom wrote:

It's not about blame. It's about finding out how people like this are created, so we can stop creating them. Sure, there was a lot more going on here than being rejected or bullied by some frat boys, I think that's obvious, but things build up over time and you never really know what's going to be the final straw. No, of course you don't blame some fraternity for this atrocity, but it's never a bad idea to take a look at how any element of society may be having a negative affect on the larger society.

There are some good points in there. However, I'm still extremely skeptical of the idea that any blame lies with the frats. Keep in mind, I was never in a fraternity, and don't have too many favorable memories of them.

dg1979us wrote:

I agree. Though the evidence certainly needs to be examined, most people who are picked on by frats do not react in anyway remotely similar to this kid. I think its quite obvious that there was some type of mental illness going on, and I really dont think there is anything more to it than that.

Clearly there was mental illness, that's why he was recommended for psychiatric help. The problem is that the process of buying a gun is too easy. If you've ever been recommended for psychiatric help, you have no business holding or owning a gun. I don't care if you seem like a normal guy. He wasn't. Another thought is the fact that on numerous occasions the University had serious complaints about this kid. He was asked to leave a class for taking pictures of girls' legs with his phone, not to mention his extremely disturbing writing. I'm not calling for censorship of writing, but the warning signs were there, and they were stronger in this case than they have been in many cases of youth violence in suicide. The school, state, and entire gun system messed up. I recognize the importance of states' rights, but the federal gun laws need to be changed. Anyone who wants to purchase a gun should have to go through a background check that is just as intense as if they were applying to be a government employee. If the individual states want to add further regulations, go for it. But before that happens, the federal laws need to be stricter, end of story. I have no problem with the right to bear arms, but that right should only apply to those people who have completely clean slates. If you've been arrested, tough cookies, YOU CAN'T BUY A GUN. If you've been recommended by the courts for mental help, NO FUCKING GUN. Officials at the school need to held accountable for much of what happened, and the gun laws need to be reevaluated.

Sorry for the rant.

Trujeeper wrote:

It is so easy to look at this guy as a nutcase, loony, crazy...whatever. Yes, he probably is crazy...but what is he saying?

Is this a sign that the elistist fashion with which college campuses in particular conduct the business of education is causing resentful feelings? Fraternities and Sororities make a general practice of excluding people. Why is THIS accepted?

Plus, has anyone noticed that the media coverage has been mostly white, affluent kids? Just because you are rich, that does not mean you are better than anyone else.

..

I knew people would bring in racism. he was a nutcase, end of story!

cinredzfan47 wrote:

Clearly there was mental illness, that's why he was recommended for psychiatric help. The problem is that the process of buying a gun is too easy. If you've ever been recommended for psychiatric help, you have no business holding or owning a gun. I don't care if you seem like a normal guy. He wasn't. Another thought is the fact that on numerous occasions the University had serious complaints about this kid. He was asked to leave a class for taking pictures of girls' legs with his phone, not to mention his extremely disturbing writing. I'm not calling for censorship of writing, but the warning signs were there, and they were stronger in this case than they have been in many cases of youth violence in suicide. The school, state, and entire gun system messed up. I recognize the importance of states' rights, but the federal gun laws need to be changed. Anyone who wants to purchase a gun should have to go through a background check that is just as intense as if they were applying to be a government employee. If the individual states want to add further regulations, go for it. But before that happens, the federal laws need to be stricter, end of story. I have no problem with the right to bear arms, but that right should only apply to those people who have completely clean slates. If you've been arrested, tough cookies, YOU CAN'T BUY A GUN. If you've been recommended by the courts for mental help, NO FUCKING GUN. Officials at the school need to held accountable for much of what happened, and the gun laws need to be reevaluated.

Sorry for the rant.

I dont disagree with the gun control aspect, I just didnt really take that as the point of the thread. I more took it as to why someone would behave in this way. Like I said, I certainly dont disagree with most of what you just typed, but just because you can buy a gun, doesnt mean you will act in this type of manner. This wasnt gang violence, or a lovers quarrell, or a robbery, or anything like that. This was what seems to be a random killing of innocent people, which I would guess most of which he probably didnt even know. Mentally healthy people dont do that. So sure the gun issue a certainly a legitimate issue, but I took the thread to be more about his motives, not about how he obtained the means that made him became capable of his actions. And I think his motives more or less comes down to the fact that he was not a mentally healthy person.

ramification wrote:

Would he still have done it if he had known the movies & pictures would not be shown on national TV? I can't believe people do not question TV channels broadcasting his manifesto over and over and over again. He got what he wanted. He got his fame. Everybody is a bit guilty in this, not just him.

Thats a leap of logic that you cant substantiate. Sure, he wanted this to be on TV or he would have filmed himself and sent it to NBC. But, it is impossible to say he would or wouldnt have done this if not for the TV aspect.