he was not one of a small number of people in this world that are "angry". in fact, I would guess that MOST people are angry or bitter about something or other. there are probably MANY people that are as mad or MORE angry and bitter than this guy. the problem was, that on top of that, he had severe mental problems and ignored the help that was offered him. those 2 things coupled together made for a lethal situation.
what I'm saying here is that there are people who are bitter and angry, and then there are people with mental problems. but if you have a person who is bitter/angry AND has mental problems, you better hope they're taking their prescriptions. and of course there are other circumstances too.....too easy to get a gun, he was probably the only person of his race in every class he ever had all the way through school, obviously couldn't make a lot of friends and not popular with girls. possibly was abused. there were circumstances. but there is nothing that society can do to alleviate all these circumstances. so it therefore becomes more important for society to be on it's guard, because there's no way to ever try to make everybody be happy-go-lucky. it's an impossibility.
but whatever the circumstances, his points became null and void (to me) when he decided to murder 32 innocent people who were not the cause of his problems.
He obviously wanted to be famous, and we're indulging him and giving him his wish, along with showing similarly disturbed people that this is a really effective way to get yourself noticed.
I couldn't agree withn you more. I was sickened to see the media airing this guys crazy ramblings. I can understand professionals revuing the material to better understand what was going on in his head, but there is no need to glorify his actions by airing his video and pictures.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
There is no way to prevent this from happening again. If there is blame here it may lie with the court that didn't remand him to mental health facility, maybe. His parents didn't make him this way and we should say a prayer for them as well; they lost someone as well. I would just like to point out that NBC broadcast this "manifesto" but said "we recognize this is hurtful, and painful to all involved" however we need ratings and we are gonna air this. What the fuck is wrong with NBC?
Philly '98 '00 (1 & 2) '03 '06 (1 & 2) '08 (1 & 2)
East Rutherford '98
Merriweather '98
Gorge '05
Vancouver '05
Los Angeles I,II '06
Santa Barbara '06
Fonda Theater '06
I know you arent justifying the killings, and I agree that there are several issues that need to be examined. But I think we need to make sure we look at the right issues, and Im not sure the "poor issue" is really a factor, because he obviously had himself in a position to at least have a chance at a promising future. Obviously more information will come from this, and you could certainly have a point. But at this time I honestly think he was just a fucked up kid who didnt get the proper treatment. And I am certainly not one for throwing drugs at every person who seems a little different, because some people are just different, but I do think there are real psychological problems that need to be addressed. And obviously, his were not addressed properly.
Oh, I think you are right. I just think something good maybe can come out of this tragedy. It's not even the poor thing. It's the taste for competition, for making inequality hurt, it's tolerating the abuse that kids, teenagers, and college students heap upon each other and the weakest among them.
I am trying to understand things that could be done or said so that the pain and anger of a child don't turn murderous like this. My child was telling me this morning about someone in his class telling him he hates him cause he is not a cool kid. Then he stopped and said "but people who hate other people are not cool". I asked him whether he had come up with such a smart thought, or someone had told him. He said his friend Ben told him. I'm just hoping for lots of Bens scattered among kids in this country.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
There is no way to prevent this from happening again. If there is blame here it may lie with the court that didn't remand him to mental health facility, maybe. His parents didn't make him this way and we should say a prayer for them as well; they lost someone as well. I would just like to point out that NBC broadcast this "manifesto" but said "we recognize this is hurtful, and painful to all involved" however we need ratings and we are gonna air this. What the fuck is wrong with NBC?
Well the courts did remand him to a mental health facility but under the law they can only keep you for 72 hours unless while under their care you continue to display actions and thought of hurting yourself and/or others or the patients willingly decides to stay for more treatment.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Apparently a 12 year old can legally buy a gun in the state of Virginia
Am I the only one who finds this beyond ridiculous? You cannot even legally purchase a video game that contains a lot of violence, watch any PG13 or R movies at this age. You cannot legally drink or drive. However you have the right to purchase a firearm?
Fair enough. His family immigrated from South Korea and owned a dry cleaner. I can easily see him ashamed of his origins, or not being able to afford things other kids were able to afford. Sometimes being allowed into the circle of the well-off makes you feel the pain of inequality even more bitterly.
Again, I am not excusing the killings, nor suggesting we need a communist revolution to make everything better. I am just saying that before we conclude (and we may rightfully conclude this!) that this is just a mental health issue, we would be well advised as a society to try and understand the anger our economic and political institutions sometimes produce.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau had talked about this a while ago
Thank you so much meme for stating my position on this so much better than I could get accross.
No I'm not a retard. Look at our society people! If you have never been poor, I understand why you find it hard to see this. If you have been poor, it is clear. Some haven't ever been poor and they can empathize. Just think about it. Our society has failed a LOT of people.
This failure clearly generates anger...do you drug it with happy pills and booze? Should we institutionalize anyone who can't afford their house payments for fear that they will snap?
Yeah, I guess this means I am a communist or a nutcase...or a retard.
Donate to Advocacy for Patients with Chronic Illness today.
Does anyone remember Jeremy Wade-Delle? Would it have been better for this nutcase to just shoot himself, yes but you would not be looking at the story anymore. I hate to put it that way...and I am so heartbroken about these poor innocent victims...
This is why I wanted to become a teacher...someone needs to be on the lookout for this exact thing! I will take up that task. I WILL be on the lookout for that troubled kid...so maybe I can help him or get him some help...before it is too late...before he gets to college...before he buys a gun...before he makes such a bad decision...before his mental state gets that far gone...
Donate to Advocacy for Patients with Chronic Illness today.
I couldn't agree withn you more. I was sickened to see the media airing this guys crazy ramblings. I can understand professionals revuing the material to better understand what was going on in his head, but there is no need to glorify his actions by airing his video and pictures.
People for whatever reason seem to need to get their sick thrills watching this stuff. I think it's disgusting, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a very disturbed young man is out there somewhere watching the news and shooting his own videos in preparation for his very own killing spree.
Eye on the the TV
'Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor it happens to be, like...
"Killed by the husband"
"Drowned by the ocean"
"Shot by his own son"
"See used a poison
in his tea...kissed him goodbye"
It's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies
Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying,
"Why, oh why?"
Cause I need to watch things die... from a distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie
Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
write as the story's told
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
I need to watch things die... from a good safe distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same, so...
Why can't we just admit it?
Blood like rain falling down
Drawn by the brave and proud
Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivorous Voyuer
Stare at the transmitter
Sing to the death rattle
La, la, la, la, la, la-la-lie (x4)
Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
But pull your head on out
you hippies and give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again
The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been
We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
People for whatever reason seem to need to get their sick thrills watching this stuff. I think it's disgusting, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a very disturbed young man is out there somewhere watching the news and shooting his own videos in preparation for his very own killing spree.
Eye on the the TV
'Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor it happens to be, like...
"Killed by the husband"
"Drowned by the ocean"
"Shot by his own son"
"See used a poison
in his tea...kissed him goodbye"
It's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies
Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying,
"Why, oh why?"
Cause I need to watch things die... from a distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie
Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
write as the story's told
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
I need to watch things die... from a good safe distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same, so...
Why can't we just admit it?
Blood like rain falling down
Drawn by the brave and proud
Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivorous Voyuer
Stare at the transmitter
Sing to the death rattle
La, la, la, la, la, la-la-lie (x4)
Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
But pull your head on out
you hippies and give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again
The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been
We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I
While agree with you that airing this is disgusting I don't think it will cause another person to go on a shooting spree. Regardless of the level of media coverage if someone wants to go out and kill scores of people they will do it.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
While agree with you that airing this is disgusting I don't think it will cause another person to go on a shooting spree. Regardless of the level of media coverage if someone wants to go out and kill scores of people they will do it.
That is no doubt true, but I also think it's possible that someone with a mental illness who feels like he's invisible and no one listens to what he has to say could see this media frenzy and decide this is a way to make a name for himself. Obviously, you'd have to have serious problems inside your head to make that kind of leap, but there's no shortage of mentally ill people in this country.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
People for whatever reason seem to need to get their sick thrills watching this stuff. I think it's disgusting, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a very disturbed young man is out there somewhere watching the news and shooting his own videos in preparation for his very own killing spree.
I just watched it on the internet. It's disturbing and disgusting. But on the other hand perhaps his message will show some people that bullying isn't always as innocent or whatever. Maybe the people will start to think that we should treat each other with more kindness, I don't know...
That is no doubt true, but I also think it's possible that someone with a mental illness who feels like he's invisible and no one listens to what he has to say could see this media frenzy and decide this is a way to make a name for himself. Obviously, you'd have to have serious problems inside your head to make that kind of leap, but there's no shortage of mentally ill people in this country.
It definetly wasn't the right thing to do, airing the video and pictures. I just see it as more of a disrespect to the victims families and to a certain extend the killers family as well. While we may loath this kid for what he did his family lost someone too and not only do that have to deal with the grief of that loss but also thew guilt that their son did this and what could they have done to prevent it. I just can't make the leap of seeing the media coverage being the catalyst that sets someone off.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I just watched it on the internet. It's disturbing and disgusting. But on the other hand perhaps his message will show some people that bullying isn't always as innocent or whatever. Maybe the people will start to think that we should treat each other with more kindness, I don't know...
You make a good point. Maybe someone who does a bit of bullying is seeing this and thinking that maybe they should change their ways. And if this incident sparks discussion at schools across the country and makes administrators take a harder line on bullying, that would be something positive coming out of this nightmare.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I just watched it on the internet. It's disturbing and disgusting. But on the other hand perhaps his message will show some people that bullying isn't always as innocent or whatever. Maybe the people will start to think that we should treat each other with more kindness, I don't know...
I certainly do think there is some "blood" on the bullies' "hands"
And on 12 year olds being able to legally buy guns in VA... even if you put the gun issue as a matter of right, a 12 year old hardly has ANY legal right, why would buying a gun be one of them?
Beyond all the gun control talks there simply should be things everyone can agree on, and this (as well as no guns for people who have been committed to mental institutions for being a danger to themselves and others) should be one of them.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Comments
what I'm saying here is that there are people who are bitter and angry, and then there are people with mental problems. but if you have a person who is bitter/angry AND has mental problems, you better hope they're taking their prescriptions. and of course there are other circumstances too.....too easy to get a gun, he was probably the only person of his race in every class he ever had all the way through school, obviously couldn't make a lot of friends and not popular with girls. possibly was abused. there were circumstances. but there is nothing that society can do to alleviate all these circumstances. so it therefore becomes more important for society to be on it's guard, because there's no way to ever try to make everybody be happy-go-lucky. it's an impossibility.
but whatever the circumstances, his points became null and void (to me) when he decided to murder 32 innocent people who were not the cause of his problems.
I couldn't agree withn you more. I was sickened to see the media airing this guys crazy ramblings. I can understand professionals revuing the material to better understand what was going on in his head, but there is no need to glorify his actions by airing his video and pictures.
East Rutherford '98
Merriweather '98
Gorge '05
Vancouver '05
Los Angeles I,II '06
Santa Barbara '06
Fonda Theater '06
Oh, I think you are right. I just think something good maybe can come out of this tragedy. It's not even the poor thing. It's the taste for competition, for making inequality hurt, it's tolerating the abuse that kids, teenagers, and college students heap upon each other and the weakest among them.
I am trying to understand things that could be done or said so that the pain and anger of a child don't turn murderous like this. My child was telling me this morning about someone in his class telling him he hates him cause he is not a cool kid. Then he stopped and said "but people who hate other people are not cool". I asked him whether he had come up with such a smart thought, or someone had told him. He said his friend Ben told him. I'm just hoping for lots of Bens scattered among kids in this country.
Well the courts did remand him to a mental health facility but under the law they can only keep you for 72 hours unless while under their care you continue to display actions and thought of hurting yourself and/or others or the patients willingly decides to stay for more treatment.
Am I the only one who finds this beyond ridiculous? You cannot even legally purchase a video game that contains a lot of violence, watch any PG13 or R movies at this age. You cannot legally drink or drive. However you have the right to purchase a firearm?
No I'm not a retard. Look at our society people! If you have never been poor, I understand why you find it hard to see this. If you have been poor, it is clear. Some haven't ever been poor and they can empathize. Just think about it. Our society has failed a LOT of people.
This failure clearly generates anger...do you drug it with happy pills and booze? Should we institutionalize anyone who can't afford their house payments for fear that they will snap?
Yeah, I guess this means I am a communist or a nutcase...or a retard.
This is why I wanted to become a teacher...someone needs to be on the lookout for this exact thing! I will take up that task. I WILL be on the lookout for that troubled kid...so maybe I can help him or get him some help...before it is too late...before he gets to college...before he buys a gun...before he makes such a bad decision...before his mental state gets that far gone...
Eye on the the TV
'Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor it happens to be, like...
"Killed by the husband"
"Drowned by the ocean"
"Shot by his own son"
"See used a poison
in his tea...kissed him goodbye"
It's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies
Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying,
"Why, oh why?"
Cause I need to watch things die... from a distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie
Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
write as the story's told
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
I need to watch things die... from a good safe distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same, so...
Why can't we just admit it?
Blood like rain falling down
Drawn by the brave and proud
Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivorous Voyuer
Stare at the transmitter
Sing to the death rattle
La, la, la, la, la, la-la-lie (x4)
Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
But pull your head on out
you hippies and give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again
The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been
We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I
While agree with you that airing this is disgusting I don't think it will cause another person to go on a shooting spree. Regardless of the level of media coverage if someone wants to go out and kill scores of people they will do it.
I just watched it on the internet. It's disturbing and disgusting. But on the other hand perhaps his message will show some people that bullying isn't always as innocent or whatever. Maybe the people will start to think that we should treat each other with more kindness, I don't know...
naděje umírá poslední
It definetly wasn't the right thing to do, airing the video and pictures. I just see it as more of a disrespect to the victims families and to a certain extend the killers family as well. While we may loath this kid for what he did his family lost someone too and not only do that have to deal with the grief of that loss but also thew guilt that their son did this and what could they have done to prevent it. I just can't make the leap of seeing the media coverage being the catalyst that sets someone off.
I certainly do think there is some "blood" on the bullies' "hands"
And on 12 year olds being able to legally buy guns in VA... even if you put the gun issue as a matter of right, a 12 year old hardly has ANY legal right, why would buying a gun be one of them?
Beyond all the gun control talks there simply should be things everyone can agree on, and this (as well as no guns for people who have been committed to mental institutions for being a danger to themselves and others) should be one of them.