Cho Seung-Hui video/pics/manifesto

scw156scw156 Posts: 442
edited April 2007 in A Moving Train
Didn't see it posted anywhere. NBC got a package from Cho Seung-Hui with an 1,800 word "manifesto" with pictures of himself holding guns and some videos.

you can find links at http://www.cnn.com/

what a messed up guy
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  • mca47mca47 Posts: 13,297
    Yeah, that guy was a real nut!

    Scary how someone can be/think that way.
  • TrujeeperTrujeeper Posts: 58
    It is so easy to look at this guy as a nutcase, loony, crazy...whatever. Yes, he probably is crazy...but what is he saying?

    Is this a sign that the elistist fashion with which college campuses in particular conduct the business of education is causing resentful feelings? Fraternities and Sororities make a general practice of excluding people. Why is THIS accepted?

    Plus, has anyone noticed that the media coverage has been mostly white, affluent kids? Just because you are rich, that does not mean you are better than anyone else.

    I'm not saying the guy was right. Murder is wrong in any way (war included!) I'm just saying that the way we do things in this world needs to be tweeked. Let us reward merit, not money. Let us give help to a bright kid with no political friends in the family. I'm talking about more than scholarships. You know what, I am my brothers keeper...and so are you. If a child dies of starvation in your state...it is your fault! Get off your butt and do something good for the world!!!

    I can't help but rant. I am a college graduate. I remember the sorority girls and frat guys. I remember the way they acted. I remember the way faculty and staff treated the frat guys and sorority girls. I remember sitting in class watching them get extensions on their papers because they had some sort of frat house thing and didn't get their work done. Mine was completed and turned in on time. I got the same A.

    This guy may have been the craziest person on the planet...and most of what he had to say was just weird and stupid...but there are some things in there we should look at...
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  • Trujeeper wrote:
    It is so easy to look at this guy as a nutcase, loony, crazy...whatever. Yes, he probably is crazy...but what is he saying?

    Is this a sign that the elistist fashion with which college campuses in particular conduct the business of education is causing resentful feelings? Fraternities and Sororities make a general practice of excluding people. Why is THIS accepted?

    Plus, has anyone noticed that the media coverage has been mostly white, affluent kids? Just because you are rich, that does not mean you are better than anyone else.

    I'm not saying the guy was right. Murder is wrong in any way (war included!) I'm just saying that the way we do things in this world needs to be tweeked. Let us reward merit, not money. Let us give help to a bright kid with no political friends in the family. I'm talking about more than scholarships. You know what, I am my brothers keeper...and so are you. If a child dies of starvation in your state...it is your fault! Get off your butt and do something good for the world!!!

    I can't help but rant. I am a college graduate. I remember the sorority girls and frat guys. I remember the way they acted. I remember the way faculty and staff treated the frat guys and sorority girls. I remember sitting in class watching them get extensions on their papers because they had some sort of frat house thing and didn't get their work done. Mine was completed and turned in on time. I got the same A.

    This guy may have been the craziest person on the planet...and most of what he had to say was just weird and stupid...but there are some things in there we should look at...

    Are you fucking retarded? Yeah, let's take a very serious look at the intelligent and poignant things he had to say...
    "All governments are murderers and liars."
    -Bill Hicks
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    You can see segments of his video here...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6570241.stm
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    I find it interesting that no one is compelled to look into the pretty specific accusations he is making in the video.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Are you fucking retarded? Yeah, let's take a very serious look at the intelligent and poignant things he had to say...
    Why wouldn't we take a look at it? Aren't we interested in preventing such things in the future? How can we do that if we don't understand why they happen?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • JD SalJD Sal Posts: 790
    I haven't seen the video yet, but I think we're going to find out soon that this guy was either sexually or physically abused as a child, or both.
    "If no one sees you, you're not here at all"
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    JD Sal wrote:
    I haven't seen the video yet, but I think we're going to find out soon that this guy was either sexually or physically abused as a child, or both.

    It sounds like the abuse may have been going on on campus.
    Beyond all gun control discussions, I just can't wrap my head around the fact that someone who had been committed to a mental health facilities and had been considered a danger to himself and others could buy 2 guns cause (as the guy who sold them to him said) he looked clean and well dressed. "we wouldn't sell a gun to someone who didn't look right"
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • hippiemom wrote:
    Why wouldn't we take a look at it? Aren't we interested in preventing such things in the future? How can we do that if we don't understand why they happen?

    We absolutely should look at it. However, there's a difference between looking at what he said and giving it any credit. Placing any minute amount of blame on fraternities is ridiculous and sickening.
    "All governments are murderers and liars."
    -Bill Hicks
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    We absolutely should look at it. However, there's a difference between looking at what he said and giving it any credit. Placing any minute amount of blame on fraternities is ridiculous and sickening.
    It's not about blame. It's about finding out how people like this are created, so we can stop creating them. Sure, there was a lot more going on here than being rejected or bullied by some frat boys, I think that's obvious, but things build up over time and you never really know what's going to be the final straw. No, of course you don't blame some fraternity for this atrocity, but it's never a bad idea to take a look at how any element of society may be having a negative affect on the larger society.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • mookie9999mookie9999 Posts: 4,677
    I can't believe he is reading off a script. Note to self, if I ever go crazy make sure I allow the words to flow freely without needing crib notes. Speak from the inner depths of your being. That's just my opinion at least.
    "The leads are weak!"

    "The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"

    "What's your name?"

    "FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
  • hippiemom wrote:
    It's not about blame. It's about finding out how people like this are created, so we can stop creating them. Sure, there was a lot more going on here than being rejected or bullied by some frat boys, I think that's obvious, but things build up over time and you never really know what's going to be the final straw. No, of course you don't blame some fraternity for this atrocity, but it's never a bad idea to take a look at how any element of society may be having a negative affect on the larger society.

    There are some good points in there. However, I'm still extremely skeptical of the idea that any blame lies with the frats. Keep in mind, I was never in a fraternity, and don't have too many favorable memories of them.
    "All governments are murderers and liars."
    -Bill Hicks
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    There are some good points in there. However, I'm still extremely skeptical of the idea that any blame lies with the frats. Keep in mind, I was never in a fraternity, and don't have too many favorable memories of them.


    I agree. Though the evidence certainly needs to be examined, most people who are picked on by frats do not react in anyway remotely similar to this kid. I think its quite obvious that there was some type of mental illness going on, and I really dont think there is anything more to it than that.
  • dg1979us wrote:
    I agree. Though the evidence certainly needs to be examined, most people who are picked on by frats do not react in anyway remotely similar to this kid. I think its quite obvious that there was some type of mental illness going on, and I really dont think there is anything more to it than that.

    Clearly there was mental illness, that's why he was recommended for psychiatric help. The problem is that the process of buying a gun is too easy. If you've ever been recommended for psychiatric help, you have no business holding or owning a gun. I don't care if you seem like a normal guy. He wasn't. Another thought is the fact that on numerous occasions the University had serious complaints about this kid. He was asked to leave a class for taking pictures of girls' legs with his phone, not to mention his extremely disturbing writing. I'm not calling for censorship of writing, but the warning signs were there, and they were stronger in this case than they have been in many cases of youth violence in suicide. The school, state, and entire gun system messed up. I recognize the importance of states' rights, but the federal gun laws need to be changed. Anyone who wants to purchase a gun should have to go through a background check that is just as intense as if they were applying to be a government employee. If the individual states want to add further regulations, go for it. But before that happens, the federal laws need to be stricter, end of story. I have no problem with the right to bear arms, but that right should only apply to those people who have completely clean slates. If you've been arrested, tough cookies, YOU CAN'T BUY A GUN. If you've been recommended by the courts for mental help, NO FUCKING GUN. Officials at the school need to held accountable for much of what happened, and the gun laws need to be reevaluated.

    Sorry for the rant.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    Apparently a 12 year old can legally buy a gun in the state of Virginia
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • seanw1010seanw1010 Posts: 1,205
    Trujeeper wrote:
    It is so easy to look at this guy as a nutcase, loony, crazy...whatever. Yes, he probably is crazy...but what is he saying?

    Is this a sign that the elistist fashion with which college campuses in particular conduct the business of education is causing resentful feelings? Fraternities and Sororities make a general practice of excluding people. Why is THIS accepted?

    Plus, has anyone noticed that the media coverage has been mostly white, affluent kids? Just because you are rich, that does not mean you are better than anyone else.

    ..
    I knew people would bring in racism. he was a nutcase, end of story!
    they call them fingers, but i never see them fing. oh, there they go
  • meme wrote:
    Apparently a 12 year old can legally buy a gun in the state of Virginia

    This is true, and this is why we need a federal minimum age for buying firearms (18? 21?), and then states can go higher if they want. Children in the state of Virginia can buy rifles, shotguns, and even assault weapons, many times without parental consent. THIS IS WHAT IS SO WRONG.
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    Clearly there was mental illness, that's why he was recommended for psychiatric help. The problem is that the process of buying a gun is too easy. If you've ever been recommended for psychiatric help, you have no business holding or owning a gun. I don't care if you seem like a normal guy. He wasn't. Another thought is the fact that on numerous occasions the University had serious complaints about this kid. He was asked to leave a class for taking pictures of girls' legs with his phone, not to mention his extremely disturbing writing. I'm not calling for censorship of writing, but the warning signs were there, and they were stronger in this case than they have been in many cases of youth violence in suicide. The school, state, and entire gun system messed up. I recognize the importance of states' rights, but the federal gun laws need to be changed. Anyone who wants to purchase a gun should have to go through a background check that is just as intense as if they were applying to be a government employee. If the individual states want to add further regulations, go for it. But before that happens, the federal laws need to be stricter, end of story. I have no problem with the right to bear arms, but that right should only apply to those people who have completely clean slates. If you've been arrested, tough cookies, YOU CAN'T BUY A GUN. If you've been recommended by the courts for mental help, NO FUCKING GUN. Officials at the school need to held accountable for much of what happened, and the gun laws need to be reevaluated.

    Sorry for the rant.

    I dont disagree with the gun control aspect, I just didnt really take that as the point of the thread. I more took it as to why someone would behave in this way. Like I said, I certainly dont disagree with most of what you just typed, but just because you can buy a gun, doesnt mean you will act in this type of manner. This wasnt gang violence, or a lovers quarrell, or a robbery, or anything like that. This was what seems to be a random killing of innocent people, which I would guess most of which he probably didnt even know. Mentally healthy people dont do that. So sure the gun issue a certainly a legitimate issue, but I took the thread to be more about his motives, not about how he obtained the means that made him became capable of his actions. And I think his motives more or less comes down to the fact that he was not a mentally healthy person.
  • Would he still have done it if he had known the movies & pictures would not be shown on national TV? I can't believe people do not question TV channels broadcasting his manifesto over and over and over again. He got what he wanted. He got his fame. Everybody is a bit guilty in this, not just him.
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    Would he still have done it if he had known the movies & pictures would not be shown on national TV? I can't believe people do not question TV channels broadcasting his manifesto over and over and over again. He got what he wanted. He got his fame. Everybody is a bit guilty in this, not just him.


    Thats a leap of logic that you cant substantiate. Sure, he wanted this to be on TV or he would have filmed himself and sent it to NBC. But, it is impossible to say he would or wouldnt have done this if not for the TV aspect.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    dg1979us wrote:
    Thats a leap of logic that you cant substantiate. Sure, he wanted this to be on TV or he would have filmed himself and sent it to NBC. But, it is impossible to say he would or wouldnt have done this if not for the TV aspect.
    He obviously wanted to be famous, and we're indulging him and giving him his wish, along with showing similarly disturbed people that this is a really effective way to get yourself noticed.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • NCBRINCBRI Posts: 1,902
    Damn! He mailed off the package between the 2 shootings.
    Brian
  • Brain of J.LoBrain of J.Lo Posts: 3,259
    hippiemom wrote:
    and we're indulging him and giving him his wish, along with showing similarly disturbed people that this is a really effective way to get yourself noticed.

    Yup...and at the same time, exploiting a sad situation and a very sick individual for the sake of sensationalism!

    I am so tired of the media.
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    hippiemom wrote:
    He obviously wanted to be famous, and we're indulging him and giving him his wish, along with showing similarly disturbed people that this is a really effective way to get yourself noticed.


    I dont disagree with that. But you cant possibly say that this wouldnt have happened if not for his wish to be on TV. Perhaps not, but that is just speculation.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    I don't know how to say this without leading someone to believe I think the shootings were justified or even understandable, but I really think Truejeeper has a point there.

    I find it very odd that this society is completely brushing off the fact that there are pockets of immense anger within itself. This is, to me, the dark side of the American dream. This economic system surely encourages hard work and allows for great opportunities, but there are a lot of people down there at the bottom for which it doesn't work at all, and they are angry as hell. Some dull their anger with drugs, some go about realizing that dream in any way they can, legal or illegal, some just fucking lose it.

    Obviously not all of them go around killing people, obviously there was deep suffering and pain in this case that went deeper than just something society-related, pain which apparently lead to severe psychological disturbances. But really... I think some thinking needs to be done about these issues too.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    meme wrote:
    I don't know how to say this without leading someone to believe I think the shootings were justified or even understandable, but I really think Truejeeper has a point there.

    I find it very odd that this society is completely brushing off the fact that there are pockets of immense anger within itself. This is, to me, the dark side of the American dream. This economic system surely encourages hard work and allows for great opportunities, but there are a lot of people down there at the bottom for which it doesn't work at all, and they are angry as hell. Some dull their anger with drugs, some go about realizing that dream in any way they can, legal or illegal, some just fucking lose it.

    Obviously not all of them go around killing people, obviously there was deep suffering and pain in this case that went deeper than just something society-related, pain which apparently lead to severe psychological disturbances. But really... I think some thinking needs to be done about these issues too.

    But this kid was a senior at a really good school. I cant see how it can be concluded he was at the bottom of society.

    Not to mention he is from centerville VA, which is in Fairfax co which is supposedly one of the richest counties in the country. I have no idea of his economic background, and dont know much about centerville, but it doesnt seem to be a real downtrodden town.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Clearly there was mental illness, that's why he was recommended for psychiatric help. The problem is that the process of buying a gun is too easy. If you've ever been recommended for psychiatric help, you have no business holding or owning a gun. I don't care if you seem like a normal guy. He wasn't. Another thought is the fact that on numerous occasions the University had serious complaints about this kid. He was asked to leave a class for taking pictures of girls' legs with his phone, not to mention his extremely disturbing writing. I'm not calling for censorship of writing, but the warning signs were there, and they were stronger in this case than they have been in many cases of youth violence in suicide. The school, state, and entire gun system messed up. I recognize the importance of states' rights, but the federal gun laws need to be changed. Anyone who wants to purchase a gun should have to go through a background check that is just as intense as if they were applying to be a government employee. If the individual states want to add further regulations, go for it. But before that happens, the federal laws need to be stricter, end of story. I have no problem with the right to bear arms, but that right should only apply to those people who have completely clean slates. If you've been arrested, tough cookies, YOU CAN'T BUY A GUN. If you've been recommended by the courts for mental help, NO FUCKING GUN. Officials at the school need to held accountable for much of what happened, and the gun laws need to be reevaluated.

    Sorry for the rant.

    the u.s. attorney's office refused to hire me as an unpaid volunteer student law clerk for a temporary summer position because i was arrested for drunk driving over 2 years ago. but i can still buy a gun.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    dg1979us wrote:
    But this kid was a senior at a really good school. I cant see how it can be concluded he was at the bottom of society.

    Fair enough. His family immigrated from South Korea and owned a dry cleaner. I can easily see him ashamed of his origins, or not being able to afford things other kids were able to afford. Sometimes being allowed into the circle of the well-off makes you feel the pain of inequality even more bitterly.

    Again, I am not excusing the killings, nor suggesting we need a communist revolution to make everything better. I am just saying that before we conclude (and we may rightfully conclude this!) that this is just a mental health issue, we would be well advised as a society to try and understand the anger our economic and political institutions sometimes produce.

    Jean-Jacques Rousseau had talked about this a while ago :)
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    meme wrote:
    Fair enough. His family immigrated from South Korea and owned a dry cleaner. I can easily see him ashamed of his origins, or not being able to afford things other kids were able to afford. Sometimes being allowed into the circle of the well-off makes you feel the pain of inequality even more bitterly.

    Again, I am not excusing the killings, nor suggesting we need a communist revolution to make everything better. I am just saying that before we conclude (and we may rightfully conclude this!) that this is just a mental health issue, we would be well advised as a society to try and understand the anger our economic and political institutions sometimes produce.

    Jean-Jacques Rousseau had talked about this a while ago :)


    I know you arent justifying the killings, and I agree that there are several issues that need to be examined. But I think we need to make sure we look at the right issues, and Im not sure the "poor issue" is really a factor, because he obviously had himself in a position to at least have a chance at a promising future. Obviously more information will come from this, and you could certainly have a point. But at this time I honestly think he was just a fucked up kid who didnt get the proper treatment. And I am certainly not one for throwing drugs at every person who seems a little different, because some people are just different, but I do think there are real psychological problems that need to be addressed. And obviously, his were not addressed properly.
  • scw156scw156 Posts: 442
    Trujeeper wrote:
    It is so easy to look at this guy as a nutcase, loony, crazy...whatever. Yes, he probably is crazy...but what is he saying?

    I can't help but rant. I am a college graduate. I remember the sorority girls and frat guys. I remember the way they acted. I remember the way faculty and staff treated the frat guys and sorority girls. I remember sitting in class watching them get extensions on their papers because they had some sort of frat house thing and didn't get their work done. Mine was completed and turned in on time. I got the same A.

    i can't say i COMPLETELY agree with you on this.

    I graduated just under 4 months ago, yes, there are frat and sorority people who are jerks and think they are better, who also happen to be rich.

    On my campus, few people got extensions etc. IF there was an "event" that WAS going to impede someones progress on completing a paper they would have to work it out with the professor, whatever arrangement that would be. And when the situation did come up where something would be late, alot of frat/sorority types WOULD be doing something for the greater good of the community. We have THON at PSU, its a 48 hour dance marathon to raise money for kids with cancer and other illnesses. Frats/sororities (along with other student organizations) put MAJOR time into it for a good 10 months out of the year. They go canning across the country to raise money and then at the actual event, many of them dance for 48 straight hours for a sick child who is living or in one's memory. Thats 48 hours of standing... no sitting, no breaks. So of course professors give those people a break, they are being selfless for kids and raising over 5 million dollars, why not. It sucks you've had such terrible experiences with the faculty/staff possibly abusing power etc.

    Also, this Cho Seung-Hui guy was a total loaner. People did try to talk to him, invited him places in the beginning.(of course there were probably the asshole here or there that made fun or something) Also, there are SO many student organizations he could have joined to feel a part of something, not just a fraternity. There are hundreds of groups that get together from book clubs, to astronomy, to dungeons and dragons, you name it, people gather to be around people who are alike. So I think he may have been abused and had metal illnesses and probably DIDN'T have a group to belong to... only because I don't think there was a huge student interest in forming a "Write terrible plays and be a psycho who stalks girls" club.
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