Islam versus the World
 
            
                
                    NCfan                
                
                    Posts: 945                
            
                        
            
                    December 3, 2006
Conquest and Concession
The fate of the Hagia Sophia and the Aqsa Mosque
by Raymond Ibrahim
Private Papers
Previous to Pope Benedict XVI’s November 30th visit to the Hagia Sophia complex in Constantinople, Muslims and Turks expressed fear, apprehension, and rage. Turkey’s independent paper Vatan expressed it thus: “The risk is that Benedict will send Turkey’s Muslims and much of the Islamic world into paroxysms of fury if there is any perception that the Pope is trying to re-appropriate a Christian center that fell to Muslims.” Apparently praying, making the sign of the cross or any other gesture of Christian worship in Hagia Sophia constitutes an attempt to “re-appropriate a Christian center that fell to Muslims.”
Built in Constantinople in the 6th century, Hagia Sophia — Greek for “Holy Wisdom” — was Christendom’s greatest and most celebrated church. After parrying centuries of jihadi thrusts from Arabs, Constantinople was finally sacked by Turks in the jihad of 1453. Its crosses desecrated and icons defaced, this millennium-old church — as well as thousands of other churches in the then Byzantine Empire — was immediately converted into a mosque, the tall minarets of Islam surrounding it in triumph. (Ironically, when Benedict quoted a Byzantine emperor saying that Islam was spread by the sword, Muslims worldwide were outraged, more churches were desecrated and a nun was shot in the back.) As part of reformer Ataturk’s drive to modernize Turkey, Hagia Sophia was secularized and transformed into a museum in 1935.
In protestation of Benedict’s visit, a gang of Turks stormed and occupied Hagia Sophia on November 22nd, exclaiming “Allahu Akbar!” and warning “Pope! don’t make a mistake; don’t wear out our patience.” On the day of the Pope’s visit, another throng of Islamists waved banners saying “Pope get out of Turkey” while chanting “Aya Sofya [Hagia Sophia] is Turkish and will remain Turkish.” And of course al Qaeda in Iraq got in on the action by denouncing Benedict’s visit on an Internet statement. (Meanwhile, one of the Pope’s expressed purposes for visiting Turkey was to promote inter-religious dialogue and denounce violence in the name of God.)
Contrast such Islamic intolerance with the tolerance granted Muslims in regards to their Aqsa mosque. Just as with emperor Justinian’s Hagia Sophia annexed by Islam, the Aqsa Mosque is a Muslim site annexed by Judaism. But unlike the permanent Muslim desecration of Hagia Sophia, one of Christendom’s holiest sites, after Israel’s victory in the 1967 war, the Jews did not deface or convert the Muslim mosque into a Jewish synagogue or temple — even though the Aqsa mosque is deliberately built atop the remains of the Temple Mount, the most important site in Judaeo-Christian eschatology.
Moreover, since reclaiming the Temple Mount, Israel has granted Muslims control over the Aqsa mosque (except during times of crises). And under Muslim control, Christians and Jews are barred from freely worshipping anywhere near the mosque. Despite such concessions, jihad has been declared on Israel, while Muslims worldwide are simultaneously demanding “justice” from the world body.
All this illustrates well the privileged status many Muslims have come to expect for themselves in the international arena: when Muslims conquer non-Muslim territories, such as Constantinople — through fire and steel, with all the attendant human suffering and misery — those whom they conquered are not to expect any “apologies,” let alone political or territorial concessions. Indeed, Turkey has yet to even recognize its genocide against its Armenian population in 1917.
Herein lies the conundrum. When Islamists wage jihad — past, present, and future — conquering and consolidating non-Muslim territories and centers in the name of Islam, never once considering to cede them back to their rightful owners, they ultimately demonstrate that they live by the age-old adage that “might makes right.” That’s fine; many peoples agree with this Hobbesian view. But there must be consistency. In other words, if we live in a world where the strong rule and the weak submit, why is it that whenever Muslim regions are conquered, such as in the case of Palestine, the same Islamists who would never concede one inch of Islam’s conquests resort to the United Nations demanding “justice,” “restitutions,” “rights,” and so forth?
Put another way, when Muslims beat infidels, it’s just too bad for the latter: they must submit to their overlords’ rules, that is, Islamic — not international or humanitarian — law, with all the attendant discrimination and humiliation mandated for non-Muslims. History unflinchingly proves this to the present day. Yet when Islam is beaten, demands for unprecedented apologies and concessions both humanitarian and secular are expected from the infidel world at large.
Double standards do not make for international justice. Either territorial conquests are always unjust and should therefore be ameliorated through concessions, or else they are not; they are merely manifestations of the natural order of things in which survival goes to the fittest. The excuse that the Islamic conquests are an expression of Allah’s will and an altruistic service to infidels obviously must fail in the international arena. Conquests are conquests. Nor does the passage of time exonerate crime. The fact that Turkey conquered Constantinople over 500 years ago does not prevent the Turkish government from returning Hagia Sophia to Christendom today — which would undoubtedly be a great gesture. But of course that can never be. The Muslim world would undergo a “paroxysm of fury” if a Christian pope dare pray in the conquered church; what would the Muslim world do if Hagia Sophia were actually converted back to a church?
Islam does not have — or at least should not be granted — a monopoly over the dispensation of war and peace, conquests and concessions. There is nothing out of the ordinary if some Muslims wish to wage eternal jihad until Islam dominates the globe; in fact, by so doing, they are only being true to Islam and its doctrines. However, in such a setting — where the world is divided into two warring camps, Islam and Infidelity, or, in Islamic terms, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War — how can Muslims expect any concessions from the international community? The natural conclusion of the view that “might makes right” is “to the victor go the spoils.”
But of course, Muslims cannot be blamed for expecting special treatment for themselves, as well as believing that jihad is righteous and decreed by the Almighty. The West constantly goes out of its way to confirm such convictions. By constantly criticizing itself, apologizing and offering concessions — things the Islamic world has yet to do — the West reaffirms Islam’s privileged status in the world.
A minor but revealing example: no Muslim map contains the word “Israel,” only “Palestine.” Yet almost every Western map has the word “Istanbul” where “Constantinople” used to be. The implication is clear: the West fully acknowledges Islam’s conquests of its own lands whereas Islam refuses to acknowledge its conquered state in Israel.
At any rate, what did the Pope do in his controversial visit to Hagia Sophia? He caved in, refrained from any gesture that could be misconstrued as Christian worship and instead worshipped in a mosque like a true dhimmi — a subdued non-Muslim living under Islamic law — and acknowledging Islamic superiority.
And therein is the final lesson. Muslim zeal for their holy places and lands is not intrinsically blameworthy. Indeed, there’s something to be said about being passionate and protective of one’s own. Here the secular West — Christendom’s prodigal son and true usurper — can learn something from Islam. For whenever and wherever the West concedes — ideologically, politically, and especially spiritually — Islam will be sure to conquer. If might does not make right, zeal apparently does.
Raymond Ibrahim is a research librarian at the Library of Congress. His new book, The Al Qaeda Reader, which translates Osama bin Laden's communiqués, will be available in April 2007.
                Conquest and Concession
The fate of the Hagia Sophia and the Aqsa Mosque
by Raymond Ibrahim
Private Papers
Previous to Pope Benedict XVI’s November 30th visit to the Hagia Sophia complex in Constantinople, Muslims and Turks expressed fear, apprehension, and rage. Turkey’s independent paper Vatan expressed it thus: “The risk is that Benedict will send Turkey’s Muslims and much of the Islamic world into paroxysms of fury if there is any perception that the Pope is trying to re-appropriate a Christian center that fell to Muslims.” Apparently praying, making the sign of the cross or any other gesture of Christian worship in Hagia Sophia constitutes an attempt to “re-appropriate a Christian center that fell to Muslims.”
Built in Constantinople in the 6th century, Hagia Sophia — Greek for “Holy Wisdom” — was Christendom’s greatest and most celebrated church. After parrying centuries of jihadi thrusts from Arabs, Constantinople was finally sacked by Turks in the jihad of 1453. Its crosses desecrated and icons defaced, this millennium-old church — as well as thousands of other churches in the then Byzantine Empire — was immediately converted into a mosque, the tall minarets of Islam surrounding it in triumph. (Ironically, when Benedict quoted a Byzantine emperor saying that Islam was spread by the sword, Muslims worldwide were outraged, more churches were desecrated and a nun was shot in the back.) As part of reformer Ataturk’s drive to modernize Turkey, Hagia Sophia was secularized and transformed into a museum in 1935.
In protestation of Benedict’s visit, a gang of Turks stormed and occupied Hagia Sophia on November 22nd, exclaiming “Allahu Akbar!” and warning “Pope! don’t make a mistake; don’t wear out our patience.” On the day of the Pope’s visit, another throng of Islamists waved banners saying “Pope get out of Turkey” while chanting “Aya Sofya [Hagia Sophia] is Turkish and will remain Turkish.” And of course al Qaeda in Iraq got in on the action by denouncing Benedict’s visit on an Internet statement. (Meanwhile, one of the Pope’s expressed purposes for visiting Turkey was to promote inter-religious dialogue and denounce violence in the name of God.)
Contrast such Islamic intolerance with the tolerance granted Muslims in regards to their Aqsa mosque. Just as with emperor Justinian’s Hagia Sophia annexed by Islam, the Aqsa Mosque is a Muslim site annexed by Judaism. But unlike the permanent Muslim desecration of Hagia Sophia, one of Christendom’s holiest sites, after Israel’s victory in the 1967 war, the Jews did not deface or convert the Muslim mosque into a Jewish synagogue or temple — even though the Aqsa mosque is deliberately built atop the remains of the Temple Mount, the most important site in Judaeo-Christian eschatology.
Moreover, since reclaiming the Temple Mount, Israel has granted Muslims control over the Aqsa mosque (except during times of crises). And under Muslim control, Christians and Jews are barred from freely worshipping anywhere near the mosque. Despite such concessions, jihad has been declared on Israel, while Muslims worldwide are simultaneously demanding “justice” from the world body.
All this illustrates well the privileged status many Muslims have come to expect for themselves in the international arena: when Muslims conquer non-Muslim territories, such as Constantinople — through fire and steel, with all the attendant human suffering and misery — those whom they conquered are not to expect any “apologies,” let alone political or territorial concessions. Indeed, Turkey has yet to even recognize its genocide against its Armenian population in 1917.
Herein lies the conundrum. When Islamists wage jihad — past, present, and future — conquering and consolidating non-Muslim territories and centers in the name of Islam, never once considering to cede them back to their rightful owners, they ultimately demonstrate that they live by the age-old adage that “might makes right.” That’s fine; many peoples agree with this Hobbesian view. But there must be consistency. In other words, if we live in a world where the strong rule and the weak submit, why is it that whenever Muslim regions are conquered, such as in the case of Palestine, the same Islamists who would never concede one inch of Islam’s conquests resort to the United Nations demanding “justice,” “restitutions,” “rights,” and so forth?
Put another way, when Muslims beat infidels, it’s just too bad for the latter: they must submit to their overlords’ rules, that is, Islamic — not international or humanitarian — law, with all the attendant discrimination and humiliation mandated for non-Muslims. History unflinchingly proves this to the present day. Yet when Islam is beaten, demands for unprecedented apologies and concessions both humanitarian and secular are expected from the infidel world at large.
Double standards do not make for international justice. Either territorial conquests are always unjust and should therefore be ameliorated through concessions, or else they are not; they are merely manifestations of the natural order of things in which survival goes to the fittest. The excuse that the Islamic conquests are an expression of Allah’s will and an altruistic service to infidels obviously must fail in the international arena. Conquests are conquests. Nor does the passage of time exonerate crime. The fact that Turkey conquered Constantinople over 500 years ago does not prevent the Turkish government from returning Hagia Sophia to Christendom today — which would undoubtedly be a great gesture. But of course that can never be. The Muslim world would undergo a “paroxysm of fury” if a Christian pope dare pray in the conquered church; what would the Muslim world do if Hagia Sophia were actually converted back to a church?
Islam does not have — or at least should not be granted — a monopoly over the dispensation of war and peace, conquests and concessions. There is nothing out of the ordinary if some Muslims wish to wage eternal jihad until Islam dominates the globe; in fact, by so doing, they are only being true to Islam and its doctrines. However, in such a setting — where the world is divided into two warring camps, Islam and Infidelity, or, in Islamic terms, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War — how can Muslims expect any concessions from the international community? The natural conclusion of the view that “might makes right” is “to the victor go the spoils.”
But of course, Muslims cannot be blamed for expecting special treatment for themselves, as well as believing that jihad is righteous and decreed by the Almighty. The West constantly goes out of its way to confirm such convictions. By constantly criticizing itself, apologizing and offering concessions — things the Islamic world has yet to do — the West reaffirms Islam’s privileged status in the world.
A minor but revealing example: no Muslim map contains the word “Israel,” only “Palestine.” Yet almost every Western map has the word “Istanbul” where “Constantinople” used to be. The implication is clear: the West fully acknowledges Islam’s conquests of its own lands whereas Islam refuses to acknowledge its conquered state in Israel.
At any rate, what did the Pope do in his controversial visit to Hagia Sophia? He caved in, refrained from any gesture that could be misconstrued as Christian worship and instead worshipped in a mosque like a true dhimmi — a subdued non-Muslim living under Islamic law — and acknowledging Islamic superiority.
And therein is the final lesson. Muslim zeal for their holy places and lands is not intrinsically blameworthy. Indeed, there’s something to be said about being passionate and protective of one’s own. Here the secular West — Christendom’s prodigal son and true usurper — can learn something from Islam. For whenever and wherever the West concedes — ideologically, politically, and especially spiritually — Islam will be sure to conquer. If might does not make right, zeal apparently does.
Raymond Ibrahim is a research librarian at the Library of Congress. His new book, The Al Qaeda Reader, which translates Osama bin Laden's communiqués, will be available in April 2007.
Post edited by Unknown User on 
0
            Comments
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            Yep, been saying it for a very long time, now.0
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            Wow, so everyone has a religion and there are only two religions in the world.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0
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            What a load of shite. The essay failed to mention that the Aya Sofia was built by the Romans, who invaded and conquered Turkey by force, introducing christianity along the way.It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
 -C Addison0
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            When I was a kid my parents took me on a vacation to Turkey, I saw the Aya Sophia in person. It was absolutely one of the most amazing structures I have ever seen in my life. Truly an amazing engineering feat.www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon0
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            sapperskunk wrote:When I was a kid my parents took me on a vacation to Turkey, I saw the Aya Sophia in person. It was absolutely one of the most amazing structures I have ever seen in my life. Truly an amazing engineering feat.
 I agree. It really is a spectacular building. And the details are facinating as well. I can't understand why the turks removed most of the christian icons, but left some behind. Like the gold-leaf mosaics that show the virgin mary and some christian saints. Maybe they just appreciated fine art. Still, there are lots of crucifixes around the place that they didn't scratch off. Did they miss them, or were they just lazy, or did they not really care that much?
 The Al aqsa mosque is pretty unimpressive in comparison, Its got a cool roof though. They wouldn't let us inside.It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
 -C Addison0
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            Half the story. No mentioning of Israel shooting civilians year after year, or expelling non-Jews born in Israel. Also it seems to imply the only defense against Sharia Law is Christianity. What a load of tosh. I'm not sure I would be too unhappy if they banned religion altogether.A restaurant with a smoking section is like a swimming pool with a pissing section0
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            NCfan wrote:At any rate, what did the Pope do in his controversial visit to Hagia Sophia? He caved in, refrained from any gesture that could be misconstrued as Christian worship and instead worshipped in a mosque like a true dhimmi — a subdued non-Muslim living under Islamic law — and acknowledging Islamic superiority.
 hahaha what a moron. So if I take off my shoes before entering a Japanese home or restaurant, I'm bowing down in submission as a non-Japanese person living under their laws, and acknowledging their superiority...
 Hate speech has never been more amusing than it is these days.0
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            Islam bashing - check.
 Highlighting "muslim agression" and never mentioning the christian agression - check.
 Lamenting that "they" are so close to their religion, and why oh why can't "we" be as them. Read the bible and worship, you dicks! - check
 Whipping up some hate speech and easy interpretations to underpin an atmosphere of getting back at them with force. - check
 Me yawning - check
 Me checking out what else is on - check
 Peace
 Dan"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
 "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 19650
- 
            OutOfBreath wrote:Islam bashing - check.
 Highlighting "muslim agression" and never mentioning the christian agression - check.
 Lamenting that "they" are so close to their religion, and why oh why can't "we" be as them. Read the bible and worship, you dicks! - check
 Whipping up some hate speech and easy interpretations to underpin an atmosphere of getting back at them with force. - check
 Me yawning - check
 Me checking out what else is on - check
 Peace
 Dan
 While I agree with your post, I do hope you reserve that attitude for those who deserve it only, and not just for anyone who has anything bad to say about the Jihadists.A restaurant with a smoking section is like a swimming pool with a pissing section0
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 I do. NCFan consistently throws up these things.Coming back to life wrote:While I agree with your post, I do hope you reserve that attitude for those who deserve it only, and not just for anyone who has anything bad to say about the Jihadists.
 And I have nothing but scorn for jihadists. I yawn the Islam vs West excuse for war.
 Peace
 Dan"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
 "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 19650
- 
            OutOfBreath wrote:I do. NCFan consistently throws up these things.
 And I have nothing but scorn for jihadists. I yawn the Islam vs West excuse for war.
 Peace
 Dan
 Not sure how you can scorn jihadists and yawn at the notion that radical Islam and the West have mutually exlusive goals for the future of mankind.
 Conflict is imminent. Do you think either side is going to change their mind? Do you think either side is going to abandon their traditions? Do you think there is a compromise to be had? Each side is going to continue to grow and strengthen. Iran and Saudi Arabia are both theocracies that force Sharia law on their citizens. The ranks of states like these is growing. The ideology of radical Islam is growing. It's just natural that these two cultures are going to clash.... i don't see how they can't. Maybe you can explain to me how we can all just live together and get along fine. I don't see it happening, but I'm open to ideas.
 I just don't see how part of the world can send humans to space, continue the progress of the Enlightenment, heal our sick with advanced medicine, feed our poor and extend to our citizens the opportunity to determine their own destiny...... while another part of the world FORCES people to believe in one fundamental religion, neglect the rights of women, persecute intelectuals, kill homosexuals, promote honor killings, gender apartied, female circumcison, etc....
 Again, maybe you know how the U.S. can except this ideology (that encompasses all the things and more) and allow it to spread in the world....0
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 Name them.NCfan wrote:The ranks of states like these is growing.0
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            post #12 really brings the unintentionals, thanks for thathate was just a legend0
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            One of the best articles ive read in a long time.
 Imo until the Catholic church can reclaim constantinople, than i dont see any reason to give the palestinians their just land.America...the greatest Country in the world.0
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            miller8966 wrote:One of the best articles ive read in a long time.
 :rolleyes:
 If that's one of the best articles you have read in a long time, I reckon you don't read much articles. I'm not even saying you have to read "liberal biased articles", cause I'm sure you'll something like that, but come on, I've read many "right leaning articles" that were much much better than this.THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!
 naděje umírá poslední0
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            Collin wrote::rolleyes:
 If that's one of the best articles you have read in a long time, I reckon you don't read much articles. I'm not even saying you have to read "liberal biased articles", cause I'm sure you'll something like that, but common, I've read many "right leaning articles" that were much much better than this.
 Imo we should reclaim constantinople.America...the greatest Country in the world.0
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            John Budge wrote:Name them.
 The government in Lebanon is under seige by Hezbollah. Last week, a high ranking government Christian was assisnated, followed by hundreds of thousands protesting in the streets to end the the current regime and replace it with Hezbollah rule. There is also the continuing war in Afghanistan against remnants of the Taliban who are trying to regain control of the country. Also, you have countries like Pakistan, where large sects of radicals are breaking away from the government and living by their own rules. In many parts of Pakistan, women are not allowed to be educated. Mogadishu has recently been conqurered by radical Islmists and they are attempting to consolidate power. Then you have Sudan, where a widely acknowledged genocide is taking place among Sunnis and Shites. Of course there is always Iraq too, where Al Qaida has established a presence and is fighting for their objectives and control. This is real, and it is happening all across the globe.0
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            SweetHarmonics wrote:post #12 really brings the unintentionals, thanks for that
 What does that mean?0
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            Nfan imo hits the nail on the head.America...the greatest Country in the world.0
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            NCfan wrote:The government in Lebanon is under seige by Hezbollah. Last week, a high ranking government Christian was assisnated, followed by hundreds of thousands protesting in the streets to end the the current regime and replace it with Hezbollah rule. There is also the continuing war in Afghanistan against remnants of the Taliban who are trying to regain control of the country. Also, you have countries like Pakistan, where large sects of radicals are breaking away from the government and living by their own rules. In many parts of Pakistan, women are not allowed to be educated. Mogadishu has recently been conqurered by radical Islmists and they are attempting to consolidate power. Then you have Sudan, where a widely acknowledged genocide is taking place among Sunnis and Shites. Of course there is always Iraq too, where Al Qaida has established a presence and is fighting for their objectives and control. This is real, and it is happening all across the globe.
 I don't see how that's possible, the gov't of Lebanon being under seige by Hizbollah, as they are allied at this point. Hizbollah has the support of the Lebanese political leadership.
 The Afghani scenario can be traced back to aanother failure in US foreign policy, its been 30 years and to this day the damage is still evident-in teh state of teh country, in teh violence in the region, in the exploding heroine trade...and so on.
 Before the Iraq war US policy planners accepted the realization that invading Iraq would not make the world a more safe place, quite the opposite. And they also realized that invading Iraq would encourage other countries to pursue WMD programs to be used as a deterrant against the agressive US foreign policy. They acknowledged these facts and invaded anyway, with world opinion at only %10 in support of war...and here we are again, another failed attempt and conquest.
 It seems it isn't the muslims and radical Islam that the world is most afraid of, it seems- and the numbers back me up on this-that it is the United States that the world fears the most.0
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