Honestly, The Iraq War has been a massive success

2»

Comments

  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    WMA wrote:
    They did do that, multiple times. And Bush did veto them. They couldn't get the votes for overriding the veto.

    Have they done it multiple times? I remember one a year ago that included limited funding and a timetable for withdrawal that got vetoed. I thought that was the one shot. If they've been doing it regularly with the same result, I apologize. Maybe they need to make a stronger case to the people. I honestly only remember last year's effort.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • WMA
    WMA Posts: 175
    jeffbr wrote:
    Have they done it multiple times? I remember one a year ago that included limited funding and a timetable for withdrawal that got vetoed. I thought that was the one shot. If they've been doing it regularly with the same result, I apologize. Maybe they need to make a stronger case to the people. I honestly only remember last year's effort.

    I think it has been 2 times so far. They could only do it once they took the House and Senate back at the end of 2006, of course.

    1st time in May 07: (1st one after they entered office in the beginning of 07)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Troop_Readiness%2C_Veterans%27_Care%2C_Katrina_Recovery%2C_and_Iraq_Accountability_Appropriations_Act%2C_2007

    The 2nd was just a couple months ago in December, though it was a pocket veto:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_vetoes
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    WMA wrote:
    The Republicans can filibuster also.

    And? So the republicans can do it, that means the dems shouldn't stand up and take all the measures they have available to them to stop something they view as wrong and unjust. This argument doesn't hold any water.
    WMA wrote:
    They want the troops to stay there and be funded with no strings attached. You don't think they'd block any bills that try to get around funding?

    Again, I don't understand this reasoning of just going along with the republicans because they might block this or that. They can't force you to vote a certain way no matter what they block. And they can't tie your hands from trying to your best ability to do ALL you could to stop this horrible war. You don't just play dead and roll over because they say so. All the dems have shown is that they want this war funded just as much as the reps....let's face it. I know I wouldn't vote to have WMA beheaded just because I knew the republicans were going to vote to do it anyway. I don't care if they were going to get what they wanted in the end anyways...I wouldn't have my name on the list of people who allowed it to be done....especially if I had been telling everyone how against it I was and thought it was sooo wrong. No one forced anyone to vote to fund this war.

    WMA wrote:
    Bush was threatening to cut over 200,000 civilian jobs/close bases etc. last year before the Democrats finally caved in to the funding. It was quite a standoff for much of last year. If it wasn't for the R party being 100% for continued war things would be different right now.

    Then hold him accountable for this shit! How can we, as a people, as a congress, allow this kind of stuff!? he does not have the power to run the show like this single handedly and you guys know it. You use Bush to excuse the downfalls of your own guy when you know the Dems could have pushed to impeach Bush if he did some crap like this! Less than 20% approval rating?! Close to 70% of the population wanting to end this war?! And we can't do anything about it because Bush says so?! Bullshit!! We are not powerless and congress is NOT powerless!
    WMA wrote:
    At least the Dem's are trying to do something about it. I don't know why you all constantly attack Democrats, yet Republicans seem to get a free pass around here on this stuff.

    Who gave the republicans a free pass? I've been railing against the reps as along as I've been on this board. But I will not pick a side and pull for them when I see them doing the same crap! It is not about reps and dems for me...it's about standing up for what's right no matter who it is doing the wrong. Most of you guys here know the reps and what they're about. I don't need to come on here and preach to the choir. BUT you guys seem blind to the fact that the Dems are pulling the SAME shit! Only it's even worse because they lie and act like they are so powerless and against this war....STRAIGHT BULLSHIT! Everything they've done points otherwise. And i can't stand a liar. I'd rather someone be straight forward and wrong than to lie to me, pretending to be something they most certainly are not.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jeffbr wrote:
    I don't think the Republicans get a free pass. It was a Republican administration and a Republican congress that fucked things up. We all know it, and we've talked about it for years. The Democrats won congress back on promises to turn things around bring our troops home. People are just trying to hold their feet to the fire, and to point out that they really haven't done jack shit since being elected.

    If they'd put up bills to cut funding and made their case to the people, we'd understand, even if Bush vetoed the bills. If they tried, but couldn't succeed, we'd at least be able to say they tried. But instead they're doing nothing but acting complicit in this whole business.

    Face it, both parties are interested in the same thing - power. The dems never had any intention of turning things around, they simply said what the figured voters wanted to hear.

    Vote 3rd party.


    Exactly!! The Dems have proved themselves ineffectual and spineless. They deserve my contempt every bit as much as the Reps. I don't play favorites...I stand up for what I believe in regardless of party lines.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    WMA wrote:
    The Republicans can filibuster also.

    They want the troops to stay there and be funded with no strings attached. You don't think they'd block any bills that try to get around funding?

    Bush was threatening to cut over 200,000 civilian jobs/close bases etc. last year before the Democrats finally caved in to the funding. It was quite a standoff for much of last year. If it wasn't for the R party being 100% for continued war things would be different right now.

    At least the Dem's are trying to do something about it. I don't know why you all constantly attack Democrats, yet Republicans seem to get a free pass around here on this stuff.


    well, i should just say 'what jeffbr said!' but, you did quote me so


    ok, the republicans can filibuster also...for some reason it reminds me of that scene in big lebowski

    'i'll say it again; you told brandt on the phone, he told me, i know what happened...yes, yes!?!?'

    you really think that would play well w/ the republican base? how many of em ya reckon drive a suv w/ a support our troops sticker ;) i'm kidding, no offense to a % of republicans. but seriously, how would it look that they would filibuster an emergency funding for....the troops to have what they need?

    then hold bush accountable!!!! most of the dems and certainly not hillary or obama, supported even a fucking censure on bush! for fucking sake was the aba who said this administration broke over 750 laws (and that was a year or so ago, sure the counter is still ticking), we had a SURPLUS of BILLIONS, now look at our deficit!!! the troops were rushed to a needless war we were mislead into w/o even adequate protection in a lot of cases, 'you go to war w/ the military you have, not the one you'd like to have' no money for them but money for no-bid contracts to pals and fucking bonsus' for them when audits, whistleblowers, commonfucking sense said they weren't even performing, proven overcharging us, our surplus, our money for the ppl that comes out of our checks.....damn, man, don't get me started!! :)

    i have NEVER given the republicans a free pass here or anywhere but damn it, hold bush accountable, don't just shrug and allow it to become a precedent
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • WMA
    WMA Posts: 175
    El_Kabong wrote:
    well, i should just say 'what jeffbr said!' but, you did quote me so


    ok, the republicans can filibuster also...for some reason it reminds me of that scene in big lebowski

    'i'll say it again; you told brandt on the phone, he told me, i know what happened...yes, yes!?!?'

    you really think that would play well w/ the republican base? how many of em ya reckon drive a suv w/ a support our troops sticker ;) i'm kidding, no offense to a % of republicans. but seriously, how would it look that they would filibuster an emergency funding for....the troops to have what they need?

    then hold bush accountable!!!! most of the dems and certainly not hillary or obama, supported even a fucking censure on bush! for fucking sake was the aba who said this administration broke over 750 laws (and that was a year or so ago, sure the counter is still ticking), we had a SURPLUS of BILLIONS, now look at our deficit!!! the troops were rushed to a needless war we were mislead into w/o even adequate protection in a lot of cases, 'you go to war w/ the military you have, not the one you'd like to have' no money for them but money for no-bid contracts to pals and fucking bonsus' for them when audits, whistleblowers, commonfucking sense said they weren't even performing, proven overcharging us, our surplus, our money for the ppl that comes out of our checks.....damn, man, don't get me started!! :)

    i have NEVER given the republicans a free pass here or anywhere but damn it, hold bush accountable, don't just shrug and allow it to become a precedent
    I only quoted you because you were explaining in the post why you shouldn't refocus the blame on the people who caused the problem in the first place.

    All I see here lately is Dem bashing, even though they are the only ones actually trying to end the freakin war. No matter how you try to spin it, the fact is that they have.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    WMA wrote:
    I only quoted you because you were explaining in the post why you shouldn't refocus the blame on the people who caused the problem in the first place.

    All I see here lately is Dem bashing, even though they are the only ones actually trying to end the freakin war. No matter how you try to spin it, the fact is that they have.


    ok, i can understad that. call it a difference of opinion b/c i don't see this breeze you do and that's not my 'spin' it's my opinion

    i do not see many - any answers in the dems.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 25,074
    correct me if i am wrong, and i am slightly tipsy right now, but i thought only the minority party has the power to fillibuster and it takes greater than 60 votes to break the fillibuster. i may be way off here, but i thought that fillibustering was one of the only powers that the minority party has.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    correct me if i am wrong, and i am slightly tipsy right now, but i thought only the minority party has the power to fillibuster and it takes greater than 60 votes to break the fillibuster. i may be way off here, but i thought that fillibustering was one of the only powers that the minority party has.

    I started a thread on this where the guy lays out the process quite clearly.

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=278223

    From what I read, it takes a 3/5 vote(60 senators) to end a filibuster...which the republicans do not have. We're not talking about ending the filibuster, we're talking about getting 40 other dems to go along with the filibuster.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    WMA wrote:
    I only quoted you because you were explaining in the post why you shouldn't refocus the blame on the people who caused the problem in the first place.

    All I see here lately is Dem bashing, even though they are the only ones actually trying to end the freakin war. No matter how you try to spin it, the fact is that they have.

    I don't call 2 efforts enough to call yourself trying to end the war especially when you turn right around and vote to fund it every time. It appears to be nothing more than show if that's all you can bring yourself to do. I have already stated the other options they could have taken that congressmen like Kucinich and Paul have supported. So there is no 'spin' here. Spin would mean we're covering something up or lying...and we are not. We simply disagree that the Dems have done all they could to stop this war. Voting to find it war ain't going to stop it...no matter how you spin it
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • WMA
    WMA Posts: 175
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't call 2 efforts enough to call yourself trying to end the war especially when you turn right around and vote to fund it every time. It appears to be nothing more than show if that's all you can bring yourself to do. I have already stated the other options they could have taken that congressmen like Kucinich and Paul have supported. So there is no 'spin' here. Spin would mean we're covering something up or lying...and we are not. We simply disagree that the Dems have done all they could to stop this war. Voting to find it war ain't going to stop it...no matter how you spin it

    Spin like - 'they voted for it, but they didn't really mean it'.

    They have had the majority for 1 year, and these bills don't pop up that often. They aren't voting to fund monthly or anything like that. They did try to pass a short term bill to fund for a short period of time so they could work out some sort of agreement, but it was shot down.

    Twice in the 1 year was the most possible times they could have done it.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    WMA wrote:
    Spin like - 'they voted for it, but they didn't really mean it'.

    They have had the majority for 1 year, and these bills don't pop up that often. They aren't voting to fund monthly or anything like that. They did try to pass a short term bill to fund for a short period of time so they could work out some sort of agreement, but it was shot down.

    Twice in the 1 year was the most possible times they could have done it.


    How much could they have meant it if they turned around and voted to fund it? Kucinich meant it and voted to not fund the war. Paul meant it and he voted not to keep funding the war. I wonder why they voted that way?

    Who forced the Dems to vote to approve the funding of the war?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    double post
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • WMA
    WMA Posts: 175
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    How much could they have meant it if they turned around and voted to fund it? Kucinich meant it and voted to not fund the war. Paul meant it and he voted not to keep funding the war. I wonder why they voted that way?

    Who forced the Dems to vote to approve the funding of the war?

    Bush wasn't planning on stopping the war either way. He was ready to cut over 200,000 civilian jobs/close bases to free up funds. Plus the "feed and forage act" was being talked about also to keep the troops supplied.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_and_Forage_Act

    Bush took the position that he'd rather let everything fall apart than not get his way apparently.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    WMA wrote:
    Bush wasn't planning on stopping the war either way. He was ready to cut over 200,000 civilian jobs/close bases to free up funds. Plus the "feed and forage act" was being talked about also to keep the troops supplied.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_and_Forage_Act

    Bush took the position that he'd rather let everything fall apart than not get his way apparently.


    And we just sit back and let him get away with that kind of shit. Why even have impeachment or filibuster....nothing's apparently important enough to use it for. The President does not have absolute power no matter what you guys say. If he pulled this crap and the dems and reps couldn't come together (with the support of the majority of american citizens who want this war over) to impeach his ass and let everything fall apart, what good are they? There's no way he could do something like that and not expect blowback from the citizenry and our elected representatives! And how would they ever expect to maintain their seats if they sat there and did nothing? There is supposed to be a system of checks and balances but our gov't is so phoney and sleazy...they only pretend to give a shit.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    my2hands wrote:
    Just take a look at the swollen bank accounts of this administrations crony's, the bank accounts of those in the defense industry, and the bank accounts of the energy industry.

    They are laughing all the way to the bank, with our fucking money. And we can only blame ourselves for letting this happen in our name.

    If we'd stop giving them our money, it would be a little more difficult for them to do this.

    Vote for people who will lower taxes....
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • searchlightsoul
    searchlightsoul Posts: 583
    A serious question. Did even a single member of the US adminsitration loose their job over the Iraq disaster?
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    searchlightsoul wrote:
    A serious question. Did even a single member of the US adminsitration loose their job over the Iraq disaster?
    rumsfield
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    rumsfield


    i thought he resigned?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    searchlightsoul wrote:
    A serious question. Did even a single member of the US adminsitration loose their job over the Iraq disaster?

    nope! in fact, ppl like condi rice got promoted! (and obama voted for her promotion) the guy who was condi's assistant, can't think of his name off hand, stephen something maybe?, anyway, he has condi's old job now...when it came out that the cia told the white house, condi's office and speechwriters the yellowcake and other things were untrue and should be taken out...this clown said the phone calls and memos from the cia over this just 'slipped his mind' and they accidentally were left in the state of the union address....so no, not anyone lost their job, in fact that clown tried to resign after it came out the cia DID tell them they disagreed (despite bush saying they never did) bush refused to accept his resignation!!! and like i said, now he has condi's old job as national security advisor
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way

Categories