Honestly, The Iraq War has been a massive success
my2hands
Posts: 17,117
Just take a look at the swollen bank accounts of this administrations crony's, the bank accounts of those in the defense industry, and the bank accounts of the energy industry.
They are laughing all the way to the bank, with our fucking money. And we can only blame ourselves for letting this happen in our name.
They are laughing all the way to the bank, with our fucking money. And we can only blame ourselves for letting this happen in our name.
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In this case it's so damn obvious, as they stopped trying to hide long ago. They just slapped a terrorist sticker on it.
Coincidence people in office connected to it are dropping like flies?
hmm...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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or we could blame the senators who continuously vote to fund it and will not pull us out of iraq if elected....or not, totally up to you, my man!
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
or we could realize a certain junior senator voted to begin withdraw... the president veto'd it... and then maybe you could refocus that blame on the war monger republicans that blocked any chance of overturning that veto
obama did his part... or perhaps you forgot there are 99 other sentaors and 565 other represenatives in congress
Seriously. How many times have we been over this? To me, this shows the Obama haters true bias since they can't see the big picture and place blame where blame is actually due.
Obama invaded Iraq!!!!!
And we've been over how they haven't done nearly all they could to stop this war. That's why this congress has an even lower approval rating than Bush. I noticed you didn't reply to the filibuster thread where it detailed exactly how they could have stopped the funding bill and introduced a withdrawal plan that we already have money for. Just because Obama says they couldn't do anything else, doesn't mean it's the truth. It would have to take political courage, a concern for this neverending loss of life and our ever increasing national debt over these congress person's ambition and an overall ability to stand up for what's right instead of buckling and going along. Bush had no problem vetoing their bill yet they vote his in despite it being against the will of the people. The blame does not solely rest on Bush and co...it rests on the congress who has the power of the purse and could have taken the steps it would take to stop this war and it rests on all of us for not holding our elected officials accountable and acting like they are all powerless to stop this shit when that is far from the fucking truth! They won't be getting anymore free passes from this anti-war voter. Drastic times call for drastic measures. If it was your country reduced to rubble, your life on the line, your family in danger of being killed every day then I imagine you wouldn't be so quick to excuse this politicing, excuses and be so willing to give this gov't a free pass.
Oh and yes, Dermocrats have gotten even more funding from defense contractors this election cycle than republicans for the first time ever. Explain to me what their angle is in doing this?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No, he just helped to keep the blood bath chugging along.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
PEARL JAM~San Antonio, TX. 4~5~03
INCUBUS~Houston, TX. 1~19~07
INCUBUS~Denver, CO. 2~8~07
Lollapalooza~Chicago, IL. 8~5~07
INCUBUS~Austin, TX. 9~3~07
Bonnaroo~Manchester, TN 6~14~08
I haven't been around much this week and I don't recall seeing the filibuster thread.
Here's a question which you haven't answered the last couple times we discussed this - how is Obama or anyone else going to get legislation passed with a timetable for withdraw, or to cut funding, when they can't get 2/3 majority to override a veto? Please answer how this is possible.
He can filibuster and if he gets 41 members to go along with him then the bill can not be brought back up again. Then they push for a withdrawal...if that gets vetoed then it's not their fault it's Bush's. He has a less than 20% approval rating...if he opts to leave the troops stranded to fight a war that almost 70% of the population wants to be over then he most certainly should be impeached. That would be running this country all on his own with no checks and balances and no accountability. If people couldn't get together and get his ass out of office after defiantly ignoring the demands of the people and most of the congress then we really are a powerless, spineless, sorry bunch of idiots.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
But listen to what you're saying...."they push for a withdrawal...if that gets vetoed then it's not their fault it's Bush's." They already did this. Many times in fact. I'm sorry, but I don't understand this logic at all. It sounds like you want Obama and the Dems to do what they've already done several times, except with a different Bushie result. Facts are facts, Bush doesn't care about approval rating.
Sadly, I don't think your opinion will ever waiver, which makes the continuous debate over this pointless. We've been through this countless times, and each time it comes down to the Dems not getting a 2/3 majority to override a veto. And you describe this scenario where we'll cut funds and Bush will just back down! He'll cave to public pressure! Wrong. You think Bush is going to stay the course for 5 years and then back down to public pressure with only months left in his term? This is not reality, it's fantasy.
Have you seen this clip of Cheney?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-vEb8nSzQE
Interviewer: 2/3 of America thinks the war is wrong
Cheney: So
Then he goes on about how he can't worry about 'fluctuations' in the public opinion polls. Fluctuations? Seriously, we're talking about pure evil here, and Bushie and co don't care about me, you, my2hands, or anyone else's opinion. The sooner you start to realize this, the sooner we can stop looking back and start looking forward, and elect someone as President that will do everything possible to end this war. Face it, Bush ain't getting impeached and this war will not end before his term is up. And one more time, blame the republicans for not crossing party lines to support a withdraw.
Filibuster and impeachment are there for a VERY GOOD reason. And I can't think of a much better reason than to save the lives of thousands of people. But that would require courage, determination and a concern for the people's voice....not the congress we know and loathe. Is anytime or any scenario dire enough for you guys to think these measures would be reasonable? Fuck em, right?....filibustering and impeachment would just be silly. I'm not buying it and I'm not going along with the murder of anymore innocent people.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Abook, please redirect your anger and frustration toward the republicans. Do you realize if only a handful of repubs would have crossed party lines and supported legislation for withdraw, this war would already be over.
I see no difference between any of those slimeballs that voted to continue this war, and you shouldn't either.
So about the filibuster and impeachment?
And there have been those who spoke out against voting for the funding...Kucinich and Paul for example. Those two know the constitution and they are not unreasonable, biased know-nothings. Youtube both of those guys speaking out about war funding, they know what they're talking about and you won't listen to me.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
perhaps you forgot 41 votes is all it takes to block bush's war funding? he did his part?? by voting to fund the war repeatedly?? ha!
this is how rosa parks would've been if she were in the congress you defend so
bus drive: you need to get out of this seat
rosa parks: no!
bus driver: i said you have to move
rosa parks: ok, whatever you say!!!!
funny, i remember a thread or 2 from you about how ineffectual our government was...guess some ppl only feel that way for 3 years, take a year off, then will resume later?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
do you realize this? :
-the dems have what, 49 members?
-all they need is 41 votes to block bush's war funding.
see, all these excuses you guys keep giving are bullshit. they were voted in b/c ppl were fed up w/ iraq. they get in, offer withdrawal and bush says no...so what do they do??? they give in!!!
why can't they filibuster bush's new war funding? then they can keep offering emergency bills to get the troops what they need so they are not cut off....then that would be bush's fault. he is faced w/ cutting the troops off or not. then if he cuts them off there would be enough support for impeachment, which should be happening anyway, we can't afford to let our elected officials think they can get away w/ all the shit this administration has, but the majority of dems don't seem to have the balls
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
The Republicans can filibuster also.
They want the troops to stay there and be funded with no strings attached. You don't think they'd block any bills that try to get around funding?
Bush was threatening to cut over 200,000 civilian jobs/close bases etc. last year before the Democrats finally caved in to the funding. It was quite a standoff for much of last year. If it wasn't for the R party being 100% for continued war things would be different right now.
At least the Dem's are trying to do something about it. I don't know why you all constantly attack Democrats, yet Republicans seem to get a free pass around here on this stuff.
I don't think the Republicans get a free pass. It was a Republican administration and a Republican congress that fucked things up. We all know it, and we've talked about it for years. The Democrats won congress back on promises to turn things around bring our troops home. People are just trying to hold their feet to the fire, and to point out that they really haven't done jack shit since being elected.
If they'd put up bills to cut funding and made their case to the people, we'd understand, even if Bush vetoed the bills. If they tried, but couldn't succeed, we'd at least be able to say they tried. But instead they're doing nothing but acting complicit in this whole business.
Face it, both parties are interested in the same thing - power. The dems never had any intention of turning things around, they simply said what the figured voters wanted to hear.
Vote 3rd party.
Have they done it multiple times? I remember one a year ago that included limited funding and a timetable for withdrawal that got vetoed. I thought that was the one shot. If they've been doing it regularly with the same result, I apologize. Maybe they need to make a stronger case to the people. I honestly only remember last year's effort.
I think it has been 2 times so far. They could only do it once they took the House and Senate back at the end of 2006, of course.
1st time in May 07: (1st one after they entered office in the beginning of 07)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Troop_Readiness%2C_Veterans%27_Care%2C_Katrina_Recovery%2C_and_Iraq_Accountability_Appropriations_Act%2C_2007
The 2nd was just a couple months ago in December, though it was a pocket veto:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_vetoes
And? So the republicans can do it, that means the dems shouldn't stand up and take all the measures they have available to them to stop something they view as wrong and unjust. This argument doesn't hold any water.
Again, I don't understand this reasoning of just going along with the republicans because they might block this or that. They can't force you to vote a certain way no matter what they block. And they can't tie your hands from trying to your best ability to do ALL you could to stop this horrible war. You don't just play dead and roll over because they say so. All the dems have shown is that they want this war funded just as much as the reps....let's face it. I know I wouldn't vote to have WMA beheaded just because I knew the republicans were going to vote to do it anyway. I don't care if they were going to get what they wanted in the end anyways...I wouldn't have my name on the list of people who allowed it to be done....especially if I had been telling everyone how against it I was and thought it was sooo wrong. No one forced anyone to vote to fund this war.
Then hold him accountable for this shit! How can we, as a people, as a congress, allow this kind of stuff!? he does not have the power to run the show like this single handedly and you guys know it. You use Bush to excuse the downfalls of your own guy when you know the Dems could have pushed to impeach Bush if he did some crap like this! Less than 20% approval rating?! Close to 70% of the population wanting to end this war?! And we can't do anything about it because Bush says so?! Bullshit!! We are not powerless and congress is NOT powerless!
Who gave the republicans a free pass? I've been railing against the reps as along as I've been on this board. But I will not pick a side and pull for them when I see them doing the same crap! It is not about reps and dems for me...it's about standing up for what's right no matter who it is doing the wrong. Most of you guys here know the reps and what they're about. I don't need to come on here and preach to the choir. BUT you guys seem blind to the fact that the Dems are pulling the SAME shit! Only it's even worse because they lie and act like they are so powerless and against this war....STRAIGHT BULLSHIT! Everything they've done points otherwise. And i can't stand a liar. I'd rather someone be straight forward and wrong than to lie to me, pretending to be something they most certainly are not.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Exactly!! The Dems have proved themselves ineffectual and spineless. They deserve my contempt every bit as much as the Reps. I don't play favorites...I stand up for what I believe in regardless of party lines.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
well, i should just say 'what jeffbr said!' but, you did quote me so
ok, the republicans can filibuster also...for some reason it reminds me of that scene in big lebowski
'i'll say it again; you told brandt on the phone, he told me, i know what happened...yes, yes!?!?'
you really think that would play well w/ the republican base? how many of em ya reckon drive a suv w/ a support our troops sticker
then hold bush accountable!!!! most of the dems and certainly not hillary or obama, supported even a fucking censure on bush! for fucking sake was the aba who said this administration broke over 750 laws (and that was a year or so ago, sure the counter is still ticking), we had a SURPLUS of BILLIONS, now look at our deficit!!! the troops were rushed to a needless war we were mislead into w/o even adequate protection in a lot of cases, 'you go to war w/ the military you have, not the one you'd like to have' no money for them but money for no-bid contracts to pals and fucking bonsus' for them when audits, whistleblowers, commonfucking sense said they weren't even performing, proven overcharging us, our surplus, our money for the ppl that comes out of our checks.....damn, man, don't get me started!!
i have NEVER given the republicans a free pass here or anywhere but damn it, hold bush accountable, don't just shrug and allow it to become a precedent
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
All I see here lately is Dem bashing, even though they are the only ones actually trying to end the freakin war. No matter how you try to spin it, the fact is that they have.
ok, i can understad that. call it a difference of opinion b/c i don't see this breeze you do and that's not my 'spin' it's my opinion
i do not see many - any answers in the dems.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I started a thread on this where the guy lays out the process quite clearly.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=278223
From what I read, it takes a 3/5 vote(60 senators) to end a filibuster...which the republicans do not have. We're not talking about ending the filibuster, we're talking about getting 40 other dems to go along with the filibuster.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't call 2 efforts enough to call yourself trying to end the war especially when you turn right around and vote to fund it every time. It appears to be nothing more than show if that's all you can bring yourself to do. I have already stated the other options they could have taken that congressmen like Kucinich and Paul have supported. So there is no 'spin' here. Spin would mean we're covering something up or lying...and we are not. We simply disagree that the Dems have done all they could to stop this war. Voting to find it war ain't going to stop it...no matter how you spin it
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde