Was christianity a hoax?

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    I am prompted to agree with you once more. Religion, as I have interpreted as, is a sort of replacement for great things that we lack in our lives. So instead of aiming for those things that we want for in life, we miss our objective completely and settle for an established set of rules. This to me is religion. I know, this is more philosophical then it is rational. But sometimes we get so caught up with our beliefs that we forget what religion was intended for originally. This is why religion will never work. I don't care what kind. Many christians do the very same thing.

    ah yes, man's quest to fill up the God shaped vacuum.
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  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    is this all in reference to the bible, or in some other religion?? cause if it's the bible, I'd like to have a conversation with you.
    I'm not sure what you mean. I'm speaking about some personal spiritual experiences I have had--numerous ones.

    Also, I'm speaking to the fact that people think there is equal proof that divinity does not exist as there is that it does exist, when that is not the case.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Also, I'm speaking to the fact that people think there is equal proof that divinity does not exist as there is that it does exist, when that is not the case.

    There is no proof either way.

    I don't think it needs to be proven that divinity doesn't exist. I think the onus is on proving it does exist. Which, there is no proof.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    angelica wrote:
    I'm not sure what you mean. I'm speaking about some personal spiritual experiences I have had--numerous ones.

    Also, I'm speaking to the fact that people think there is equal proof that divinity does not exist as there is that it does exist, when that is not the case.
    I understand about "personal spitual experiences", but it's just that you said certain things that have nothing to do with the scriptures... i was a little clueless about your statements.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    There is no proof either way.

    I don't think it needs to be proven that divinity doesn't exist. I think the onus is on proving it does exist. Which, there is no proof.

    faith requires NO PROOF. that's why they call it FAITH. the onus is on no one.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
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  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    There is no proof either way.

    I don't think it needs to be proven that divinity doesn't exist. I think the onus is on proving it does exist. Which, there is no proof.
    When one has a personal experience with something, one has KNOWledge and experience. That is quite different than having a lack of experience and a complete void of experience with something. I have had all the personal proof that I ever need, and then some! I completely understand if others don't believe. For me, it's not about having others believe based on my experience. For me it's about how my life dramatically changed for the better.

    As for proof in an argument, someone, say cornnifer or CurranPete can make an argument or an assertion, and it will either stay standing, or it can be disproven. If an argument cannot be disproven, it must stand by virtue of it's own standingness.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    faith requires NO PROOF. that's why they call it FAITH. the onus is on no one.

    In that regard, a lot of things exist that can not be proven. Like the Easter Bunny.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    In that regard, a lot of things exist that can not be proven. Like the Easter Bunny.
    Possibilities are possibilities for a reason. I don't make the basic rules of reason or proof. They exist independently of me.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    When one has a personal experience with something, one has KNOWledge and experience. That is quite different than having a lack of experience and a complete void of experience with something. I have had all the personal proof that I ever need, and then some! I completely understand if others don't believe. For me, it's not about having others believe based on my experience. For me it's about how my life dramatically changed for the better.

    As for proof in an argument, someone, say cornnifer or CurranPete can make an argument or an assertion, and it will either stay standing, or it can be disproven. If an argument cannot be disproven, it must stand by virtue of it's own standingness.

    Divinity is lacking in logic. Every argument I've heard is illogical, but it's delivered by people that are illogical, so it's awefully difficult to convince them they are wrong.

    I'm glad you don't consider your personal experience a valid argument on this subject, because experience is subjective and could be attributed to many different things you aren't aware of.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Possibilities are possibilities for a reason. I don't make the basic rules of reason or proof. They exist independently of me.

    Everything is possible within the laws of nature. But the probabilities are so low that it's pointless to make an assumption that it must exist.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Divinity is lacking in logic. Every argument I've heard is illogical, but it's delivered by people that are illogical, so it's awefully difficult to convince them they are wrong.
    If you cannot disprove something using logic, it stands. You can't blame your inability on someone else. Lack of being able to disprove something means it's not disproven at all.
    I'm glad you don't consider your personal experience a valid argument on this subject, because experience is subjective and could be attributed to many different things you aren't aware of.
    My experience is certainly valid for me to assert as my experience. You know I assert it all the time.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

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  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Divinity is lacking in logic. Every argument I've heard is illogical, but it's delivered by people that are illogical, so it's awefully difficult to convince them they are wrong.
    Convince me that I am wrong. If it is true and you are sure beyond a reasonable doubt that someone with faith is wrong, then convince me. For instance, convince me that Jesus is not the Son of God.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    If you cannot disprove something using logic, it stands. You can't blame your inability on someone else. Lack of being able to disprove something means it's not disproven at all.

    My experience is certainly valid for me to assert as my experience. You know I assert it all the time.

    Exactly, you are convinced, so it's impossible for you to change your mind, and therefor impossible for me to disprove it to you.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    Convince me that I am wrong. If it is true and you are sure beyond a reasonable doubt that someone with faith is wrong, then convince me. For instance, convince me that Jesus is not the Son of God.

    I can't, you are already convinced that Jesus is the Son of God, and your mind is locked tight.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Exactly, you are convinced, so it's impossible for you to change your mind, and therefor impossible for me to disprove it to you.
    Try disproving my assertion to the message board. You don't have to disprove it to me, only disprove it period. Go ahead.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I can't, you are already convinced that Jesus is the Son of God, and your mind is locked tight.
    Are you trying to say your inability to prove something is the fault of another? That's a very interesting argument, Ahnimus.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I can't, you are already convinced that Jesus is the Son of God, and your mind is locked tight.
    No. That is exactly why I posted it, because my mind is completely open to you. As educated as you sound in your posts, I thought you would figure that. And regardless if someone's mind is tightly locked or not, if you convince someone then you convince someone. Convince me.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    angelica wrote:
    Try disproving my assertion to the message board. You don't have to disprove it to me, only disprove it period. Go ahead.
    Now I admit, you and I have been over and over this--I present a point you try to disprove it using some rationale or another. Then I present a valid counterpoint, etc. All the while nothing gets disproven because of the many variables of our ongoing debate on the subject. But that's the point. They are opinions that we are basing on fact. Neither of us holds the final word on the subject. If you could disprove divinity, you'd be a celebrated and rich man right now. Sometimes we have to accept the grey areas that do exist in life, and acknowledge that for what we know, there is sooooo much that we don't know.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    angelica wrote:
    Now I admit, you and I have been over and over this--I present a point you try to disprove it using some rationale or another. Then I present a valid counterpoint, etc. All the while nothing gets disproven because of the many variables of our ongoing debate on the subject. But that's the point. They are opinions that we are basing on fact. Neither of us holds the final word on the subject. If you could disprove divinity, you'd be a celebrated and rich man right now. Sometimes we have to accept the grey areas that do exist in life, and acknowledge that for what we know, there is sooooo much that we don't know.
    And this, my friends, ends the discussion of, "Was christianity a hoax?" Tune in next time for another heated discussion of "Are all Muslims terrorists?"
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    And this, my friends, ends the discussion of, "Was christianity a hoax?" Tune in next time for another heated discussion of "Are all Muslims terrorists?"
    That's hysterical! :)



    (something tells me Ahnimus has something brewing, however. )
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!

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