Why Do Athiests

Options
1…2728303233…40

Comments

  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    hippiemom wrote:
    No, no, no, that's not what I was saying. I should have clarified ... there is no evidence whatsoever that the prayers of others do anything at all for the person who is sick. I don't concern myself much with what others do, so if their prayers are helping them, they should by all means have at it. I don't care if others pray for me, if it makes them happy, but they should be clear that they're doing it for themselves and not for me. It's sort of like if someone were to give me a violin for my birthday ... ok, this is lovely, but you know I don't play the violin, so why are you giving this to me? It's just odd and a bit awkward when people tell me they're doing it. It puts me in the position of having to be either rude or insincere, which I quite dislike.

    It's also been my experience that the people who tell me they are praying for me (not necessarily here, I'm thinking more of my 3-D life) are the ones who'd be most likely to freak out if a Wiccan told them that they were going to light a candle to the goddess and perform a spell for them ... which is, after all, only the Wiccan form of prayer. One of my bosses has told me several times that she's going to pray for me whether I like it or not, and I know she'd go through the roof if someone told her they were going to cast spells for her good health whether she liked it or not. That sort of arrogance is annoying.

    :) I understand what you are saying mom.
    I figure it's all about the intention and the person. Oh! And the timing! :D
    I've had people tell me to "trust in God" or that they are praying for me, which irritated me no end. But I came to realize that it was just a way for them to appear to be doing something and that as you say, was to make them feel better and had nothing to do with me at all. Truth be told those people have no real power in my life. And by avoiding them, I find I am much happier. People that truly love and care for me, who have good intentions will respect my views and act accordingly. One of my dearest friends brought me Angel cards last time I was in hospital. And told me an Angel was watching over me. I confess that at the time, for a split second, I could have cheerfully thrown them at her! Must have been the prednisolone!!! ;):D
    But I recognized that she was simply telling me that she loved me and was worried about me, and was speaking using ideas and concepts that were familiar to her. However I would have be less accepting of a complete stranger or someone that I'm not close to swaning in and telling me to pray to Jesus, or to have faith in God. So yes, I think it's the individual, their intention and as always, timing!! :D

    You should take some Wiccan candles in and give them to your boss for her next birthday. :) It would be very considerate of you. :) And thoughtful. :)
    Sometimes the only way to get the message across is to fight fire with fire.
    Sounds like she needs a little fire in her life! ;)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    similar cases were discussed in the american medical journal. i believe december 2005. doctors are prescribing patients to eat buffalo meat all over the country. researchers are trying to isolate the compound that destroys the cancer. thanks to the chemical companies; you cannot claim a cure until you can precisely measure dosage. that's the law. so until the compound is isolated; and an exact dosage can be established; millions will die from cancer. this is why natural products cannot be advertised and medicines.

    here's a breast cancer study you may be interested in. sorry to those who've already seen it.

    CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) is a cancer-fighting fat that is most abundant in grassfed products. Two new European studies link a diet high in CLA with a lower risk of breast cancer. In Finland, researchers measured CLA levels in the serum of women with and without breast cancer. Those women with the most CLA had a significantly lower risk of the disease. Meanwhile, French researchers measured CLA levels in the breast tissues of 360 women. Once again, the women with the most CLA had the lowest risk of cancer. In fact, the women with the most CLA had a staggering 74% lower risk of breast cancer than the women with the least CLA.
    The most natural and effective way to increase your intake of CLA is to eat the meat and dairy products of grassfed animals.
    A. Aro et al, Kuopio University, Finland; Bougnoux, P, Lavillonniere F, Riboli E. "Inverse relation between CLA in adipose breast tissue and risk of breast cancer. A case-control study in France." Inform 10;5:S43, 1999

    what does any of this have to do with you giving someone water from the lourdes shrine?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    *edit* nevermind. your next post cleared things up for me.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i do soulsigning, i do. but i do it in church where it belongs. i'm not in no way involved with politics because it goes against my beliefs. i used to "preach" in church for a little and would speak about how as christians (btw, i never really used the word "christian" cause i'm against the word but i'm using it here so you can understand it) we should not interfere with public relations. i don't support bush or the republicans. i don't support any of it cause it's all very mundaine and "unchristian". those things are completely against the teachings of jesus. i don't believe in war. i don't believe in the death penalty. i don't believe in the right to bare arms. but i'm not gonna go and advocate my beliefs in politics. that's why you never hear me speaking about politics on these boards... mainly, religion cause it fascinates me. and also so i could learn.

    but i can sympathize with your beliefs... you will never see me standing in front of the texas state capital (which is where i live) raising up signs that say, "God hates fags" but i will never march with homosexuals either cause those are contrary to my beliefs as well. i mean, thank god for mlk and all. he served of great purpose for our nation, but he never advocated his own beliefs in protest against the oppressions of his people. if he did, i bet he would've never been successful.

    would that there were more followers of jesus like you... and im not being sarcastic there. i mean it. you're too rare.
  • lucylespian
    lucylespian Posts: 2,403
    cornnifer wrote:
    lucylespian wrote:

    Deceitful and patronising?! i am not easily offended but i have to say i am right now. You know NOTHING about me or my motivations. i just got through saying i don't do it for personal gratification. i don't think it makes me a better person. i am in no way arrogant.
    leave me alone.

    Hey, it's teh MOving Train, place to debate politics and religion. If you come here, ya gotta expect some heat. I know what you said, I'm just calling bullshit on it.

    Doing something behind someones back is certainly deceitful.
    Christians are always banging on about entry to heaven, so don't claim there is no secondary gain, or personal motivation to your piety. Again, it's that hippocrisy that pisses off athiests.

    I have been patted on teh head and "blessed" by copmplete strangers withotu my premission, cos they assume they have teh right, but they don't, and it's offensive to me.
    Music is not a competetion.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    people of religion welcome death. the ultimate prize is to be with God. i'm only 51 yet i have a standing DNR order. i've done more than most people; now i want something better. you speak of death like it's something bad; to others; it's the best part of life.

    id be happy to help you out with that...
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    right. water was only an example of how faith can heal.
    the actual "cure" is something in buffalo meat. science says it's a compound and are trying to isolate it. i think it's the entire combination of everything available in buffalo meat. if and only if the buffalo are raised properly. the usda has a lot of information as well as the NIH.

    but the faith did not heal. you just admitted yourself that it was the buffalo meat that did it.

    and as i suspected, this all came down to a sales pitch, as most of religion does ;)
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    hippiemom wrote:
    Your "study" of one person isn't a study at all, it's an anecdote. Scientific studies of the sort that are published in peer-reviewed professional journals do indeed have controls, and study large groups over long periods.

    While they are busy studying over long periods and having things published and reviewed by peers, I might just continue with my alternate therapy regimes as an adjunct to the medically prescribed regimes.
    As the alternate is doing no harm, and could potentially be doing some good, not to mention they may discover other negative impacts from the prescribed medications further down the track, I have no problem with weighing up all the information and deciding if an alternative treatment is course of action that I believe will benefit me. Waiting for scientific peer review to catch up is not always a good thing.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    cornnifer wrote:
    i DO, and you know it damn well. That doesn't mean i am going to sit back and let non-christians make broad brushstroke generalizations about Christians and Christianity and not call THEM on it as well.
    Furthermore, it is one thing for Christians such as MLK or myself to call Christians on some of their behavior. It is something altogether different for a non-Christian to point out shortcomings of Christians in an attempt to discredit their faith. i have no problems with other Christians pointing it out to me when i may be stumbling in my "Christian walk", i have a bit of a problem with non-Christians doing it and making prejudicial judgements of a faith they don't share and know very little about. Its different.

    i am/was christian. it was those people who forced me to abandon my faith. i was sickened by the hypocrisy of it and the ignorant unwillingness to even acknowledge it. jesus was equally sickened, but he was a better man than i. so i found my own way to god. but that doesn't mean im going to keep my mouth shut about it. i was raised catholic... it sticks. a large part of me is still hoping one day they will all wake the fuck up and realize it's not 1300 ad anymore.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    i am/was christian. it was those people who forced me to abandon my faith. i was sickened by the hypocrisy of it and the ignorant unwillingness to even acknowledge it. jesus was equally sickened, but he was a better man than i. so i found my own way to god. but that doesn't mean im going to keep my mouth shut about it. i was raised catholic... it sticks. a large part of me is still hoping one day they will all wake the fuck up and realize it's not 1300 ad anymore.

    Ah young skywalker, you have much to learn. Us atheists are waiting for you to wake up. ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    While they are busy studying over long periods and having things published and reviewed by peers, I might just continue with my alternate therapy regimes as an adjunct to the medically prescribed regimes.
    As the alternate is doing no harm, and could potentially be doing some good, not to mention they may discover other negative impacts from the prescribed medications further down the track, I have no problem with weighing up all the information and deciding if an alternative treatment is course of action that I believe will benefit me. Waiting for scientific peer review to catch up is not always a good thing.

    I hear dog food is really good at curing colds.

    Also, and this isn't a lie. If you age your meat for like 6 weeks and then eat it, it will degenerate your cells and cancer will be unable to propagate and will eventually die, if you don't die first.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Ah young skywalker, you have much to learn. Us atheists are waiting for you to wake up. ;)

    atheists are no better off than catholics. they're both claiming absolute certain knowledge of the unknowable.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    soulsinging wrote:
    id be happy to help you out with that...

    :rolleyes: Now ss! That was just plain nasty! And I suspect a fib anyway! :p:)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I hear dog food is really good at curing colds.

    Also, and this isn't a lie. If you age your meat for like 6 weeks and then eat it, it will degenerate your cells and cancer will be unable to propagate and will eventually die, if you don't die first.

    Got any more info on it Ahnimus? :p

    Probably not something I would choose as a cure for the common cold, but there has been anecdotal evidence that Vitamin C is very good for warding off the common cold and as Vitamin C is also an antioxidant, and what is not absorbed into the blood stream is flushed out in the urine, I see no reason why incorporating a daily dose into my diet would do harm.
    And as I have a compromised immune system, then I'll do whatever I deem appropriate to help myself. Same as everyone else.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Jeanie wrote:
    While they are busy studying over long periods and having things published and reviewed by peers, I might just continue with my alternate therapy regimes as an adjunct to the medically prescribed regimes.
    As the alternate is doing no harm, and could potentially be doing some good, not to mention they may discover other negative impacts from the prescribed medications further down the track, I have no problem with weighing up all the information and deciding if an alternative treatment is course of action that I believe will benefit me. Waiting for scientific peer review to catch up is not always a good thing.
    I agree pretty much completely, in cases where an alternative treatment is genuinely doing no harm. My problem is with people who claim to be able to cure cancer ... that's a claim no oncologist would ever make, and no one else should be making it either. My doctor told me of a patient of hers who spent all of her money going to see some guy in NYC who assured her that he could cure her. He didn't, and now her elderly husband is alone and penniless. He probably would have been alone anyway, her cancer was very advanced, but he didn't have to be broke. Every oncologist knows dozens of stories like this ... for every "miracle," there are dozens of dead people with bankrupt families.

    So sure, if you're following a particular diet plan, or taking some relatively low-cost nutritional supplements, or something along those lines, that's great. But there are a LOT of charlatans out there preying on desperate people, and anyone who claims to have a "cure" for cancer is a charlatan unless they can prove it. If they're honestly saying "I think this may be of some benefit to you," that's one thing, but a lot of them are telling people they have a cure, and they don't, no one does. People who are dying are often desperate to believe these claims, and oftentimes their illness muddles their thinking. Those who prey on them are the lowest of the low.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    soulsinging wrote:
    atheists are no better off than catholics. they're both claiming absolute certain knowledge of the unknowable.

    i don't claim knowledge of the unknowable. what i claim is an absolute disbelief as it pertains to me. i can not bring myself to put my faith in something as nonsensical as a God.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    catefrances wrote:
    i don't claim knowledge of the unknowable. what i claim is an absolute disbelief as it pertains to me. i can not bring myself to put my faith in something as nonsensical as a God.

    maybe im muddling the distinction between agnostic, atheist, and anti-theist. there is a difference between refusing to put your faith in a god you see no evidence for and between stating as fact that there is no god and there is no possibility that such an entity could ever exist.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Jeanie wrote:
    :rolleyes: Now ss! That was just plain nasty! And I suspect a fib anyway! :p:)

    nasty? im just offering to help out a friend. im offering my secular compassion to someone who cannot wait to be reunited with their god.

    but no fib. in this odd sense, i very much agree with ols. i dont see the big deal with death. i never have.
  • lucylespian
    lucylespian Posts: 2,403
    hippiemom wrote:
    I agree pretty much completely, in cases where an alternative treatment is genuinely doing no harm. My problem is with people who claim to be able to cure cancer ... that's a claim no oncologist would ever make, and no one else should be making it either. My doctor told me of a patient of hers who spent all of her money going to see some guy in NYC who assured her that he could cure her. He didn't, and now her elderly husband is alone and penniless. He probably would have been alone anyway, her cancer was very advanced, but he didn't have to be broke. Every oncologist knows dozens of stories like this ... for every "miracle," there are dozens of dead people with bankrupt families.

    So sure, if you're following a particular diet plan, or taking some relatively low-cost nutritional supplements, or something along those lines, that's great. But there are a LOT of charlatans out there preying on desperate people, and anyone who claims to have a "cure" for cancer is a charlatan unless they can prove it. If they're honestly saying "I think this may be of some benefit to you," that's one thing, but a lot of them are telling people they have a cure, and they don't, no one does. People who are dying are often desperate to believe these claims, and oftentimes their illness muddles their thinking. Those who prey on them are the lowest of the low.

    Actually, trying alternative therapies is part of the bargaining stage of teh grieving process. It occurs in all illness, not just cancer, and I re-iterate my point that these charlatans are parasites preying on desperation.

    My father-in-law bankrupted himself trying sanke venom therapy when his second wife was dying of breat cancer. NOw the children are poor and he struggle to provide for some years after her death. The parasite, no doubt is doing just fine !!
    Music is not a competetion.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    soulsinging wrote:
    maybe im muddling the distinction between agnostic, atheist, and anti-theist. there is a difference between refusing to put your faith in a god you see no evidence for and between stating as fact that there is no god and there is no possibility that such an entity could ever exist.

    well conor anything's possible, but..... :)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say

Categories