where do we draw the line?

whitepants wrote:

I'm surprised that a "straight A 18 year old" student would be reckless enough to write such a distrubing essay, damn well knowing about the VT murders and Cho's history of writing disturbing essay's in his creative writing class.

Yes adults might be surprised as you are, but remember that teenagers can be quite in their own world, and maybe don't pay that much attention to the news and current events. How do you know how much he knew about the VT situation?

This is a shame because all its going to do is to teach kids to keep their thoughts INSIDE and become more secretive. It won't stop them having those thoughts.

soulsinging wrote:

im actually kinda excited. free from all societal restraints, id love to set myself up as a warlord in anarchist america.

lol...oh man... I'd love to go back to simpler times, just not in a societal collapse scenario. The right to bear arms will probably become the new first post energy world amendment.

arresting every kid who writes violent poems, lyrics to songs in a band, reads violent books, watches violent movies, aint gonna do squat.

Just as

Bush arresting every muslim aint gonna do squat.

I wonder why so many kids write violent poems or stories? Its not like we live in utopia folks, our world is violent HELLO!!!

Thats what I dont get, its like people are so dense. No wonder kinds would behave so violently. We live in a violent culture.

Tell me this, what happens if you fail to pay rent? What will occur. Well your landlord will be upset. And you most likely will get a letter from the police saying you are evicted and must leave.

Then what happens next?

Then if you still havent paid rent, and still havent left, you most likely will be visited by a big, burly, armed police officer, who will knock on your door.

What will be the response of that officer if he says "please sir or maam, we need you to leave immediately", and you refuse to budge? Whats the response of the officer going to be? Is the response going to be violent?

How about if you steal some groceries from the store? Whats the response by police and the state?

Its funny how in america, we dont give people the basic amenities to live, that YOU are forced to work for food clothes and shelter.
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These discussions on child violence are so absurd. Michael Moore laid it out, and you all refuse to see it. He connected Columbine with the fact clinton dropped more bombs on Kosovo than at any other time up until that point in history since WWII.

School shootings and office shootings and mass murders and people going postal can only be understood one way, they are modern day slave rebellions. And although I dont condone anyone killing, I do think I understand and think this behavior is inevitable under this sick, criminal and immoral system of exploitation and control


Stop child violence?

Stop kids from writing violent poems and lyrics, and stories?

Why not stop the whole culture from its tacit support of violence?

How can you say, the state can murder someone with a letal syringe

The state can murder someone by force, by police?

How can you say the state can murder someone by failing to give them food clothes and shelter?

And yet condemn these child killers

We draw the line BEFORE arresting people for something they WRITE.

What the fuck has this world...

Cheguevara6 wrote:

but lets be frank, this connection at least is more thought out than the idea that just because kids watch violent video games or listen to Marilyn Manson that they are going to go slaughter other humans.

Your right there is no direct connection of violence but its the most thorough and honest and thoughtful and thoughtout stance on guns and kids and schools I have heard yet/

I am against guns, but I dont support all the liberals who took the time to use the tragedy as a way to suggest we all need to support gun control. Lets face it gun control is only one piece of the puzzle. Lots of other weapons exists and are legal. Why not stop the kids from even considering or getting to the point of murder.

And I dont support the right wing who think the culture is too leniant and that we need to teach more morality, religion and so on in schools.

Both stances are wrong.

To me, this kid isnt just some one who snapped. He went 24 years of his life without murder and violence. His violence was brought on by something. And it sure as hell wasnt listening to Anti Christ Superstar or listening to ozzy or watching American Psycho that drove this kid off the edge.

We always blame people for tragedies like these. Why not blame things or people that are ACTUALLY responsible.

his violence was bought on by psychosis.

yes we live in a violent society. violence is an innate trait that man tries his darndest to suppress. every now and again it's gonna rear it's ugly head with catastrophic results. like columbine. like virginia tech.

war is a tool of capitalism. of a lot of isms for that matter. it's institutionalised violence. much the same as the death penalty.

cho is responsible for his actions. but society can be held responsible for begetting people such as cho.

we are not much different from the other species on earth. it is survival of the fittest and if you can't keep it together you're gonna pay the price. and sometimes society willl pay as well. and when society pays the price it still ignores the ugliness and pretends such acts are abhorrant behaviour.

sure, and I include myself in that even though I have never got in a physical fight with anyone and never used violence.

My point is in the past, school shootings always promoted people to single out and blame one person or thing. Marilyn manson, video games, movies, music, books, etc...

My point is this: as long as its just marilyn manson responsible, no one has to look at themselves or the culture. They dont have to ask real questions. After all we arent marilyn manson and we arent Stephen King and we arent Quentin Tarantino and we arent hip hop etc...

The whole culture is rotten, thats the whole point. Trying to lock up a few bad apples isnt going to stop anything. Just as locking up a few bad apples who beat and brutalized inmates in abu Gharaib and Gitmo doesnt stop rampant prisoner abuse in iraq and Gitmo.

They are scapegoats.

My plan would be to examine society as a whole, the culture as a whole, and for each of us to look at ourselves.

To me, this make much more sense than anything I have heard by the talking heads about this school shooting.

Doesnt this concern people, the rise in school shoootings, the rising in domestic violence, the rising in murders and rapes? What is this rise in crime due to?

Cheguevara6 wrote:

My plan would be to examine society as a whole, the culture as a whole, and for each of us to look at ourselves.

To me, this make much more sense than anything I have heard by the talking heads about this school shooting.

Doesnt this concern people, the rise in school shoootings, the rising in domestic violence, the rising in murders and rapes? What is this rise in crime due to?

but i like my violent side. i channel it constructively. though sometimes it escapes.

you are never gonna change society when our most primeval instinct is supressed cause no one wants to admit it exists in all of us. when no one will admit that acts of violence aren't anomalous but part of who we are.