where do we draw the line?
soulsinging
Posts: 13,202
this kid was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct becos his teacher found the violence in his hs creative writing assignment to be too disturbing. how far do we go now?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070426essay,1,1089899.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070426essay,1,1089899.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
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can't read it, i'm not a registered user.
High school teacher 'disturbed' by violent content of assignment
By Jeff Long and Carolyn Starks
Tribune staff reporters
Published April 26, 2007
Told to express emotion for a creative-writing class, high school senior Allen Lee penned an essay so disturbing to his teacher, school administrators and police that he was charged with disorderly conduct, officials said Wednesday.
Lee, 18, a straight-A student at Cary-Grove High School, was arrested Tuesday near his home and charged with the misdemeanor for an essay police described as violently disturbing but not directed toward any specific person or location.
Neither police nor the school would release a copy of the essay written Monday. School officials declined to say whether Lee had any previous disciplinary problems, but said he was an excellent student. Authorities said Lee had never been in trouble with the police.
The charge against Lee comes as schools in the Chicago area and across the country wrestle with how to react in the wake of the massacre at Virginia Tech.
Bomb threats at high schools in Schaumburg and Country Club Hills caused evacuations. And extra police were on duty at a Palos Hills high school this week because of a threatening note found in the bathroom of a restaurant a half-mile away.
Cary Police Chief Ron Delelio said the charge against Lee was appropriate even though the essay was not published or posted for public viewing.
Disorderly conduct, which carries a maximum penalty of 30 days in jail and a $1,500 fine, is often filed for such pranks as pulling a fire alarm or dialing 911 unnecessarily, he said. But it can also apply when someone's writings disturb an individual, Delelio said.
"The teacher was alarmed and disturbed by the content," he said.
The teen's father said he understood concerns about violence but not why a creative-writing exercise resulted in charges against his son.
"I understand what happened recently at Virginia Tech," said Albert Lee. But he added, "I don't see how somebody can get charged by writing in their homework. The teacher asked them to express themselves, and he followed instructions."
Some legal experts said the charge is troubling because it was over an essay that even police admit contained no direct threats against anyone at the school. A civil rights advocate said the teacher's reaction to an essay shouldn't make it a crime.
"One of the elements is that some sort of disorder or disruption is created," said Ed Yohnka, a spokesman for the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois. "When something is done in private -- when a paper is handed in to a teacher -- there isn't a disruption."
Yohnka also said that it was inevitable that schools would focus on potentially threatening writings in the aftermath of what happened at Virginia Tech, where a gunman killed 32 students and teachers, then fatally shot himself.
"After so much attention was paid last week to what was written by the shooter at Virginia Tech, I think there is no question people will be paying more attention to things like this," he said.
The goals this month for Lee's Creative English class were for students to communicate ideas and emotions through writing. But students were warned that if they wrote something that posed a threat to self or others, the school could take action, said Community High School District 155 Supt. Jill Hawk.
Essay discussed
Lee's English teacher, whom officials declined to identify, read the essay and reported it to a supervisor and the principal. After a lively discussion, district officials decided to report it to the police, Hawk said.
"Our staff is very familiar with adolescent behavior," she said. "We're very well-versed with types of creativity put into writing. We know the standards of adolescent behavior that are acceptable and that there is a range."
But Hawk added, "There can certainly be writing that conveys concern for us even though it does not name names, location or date."
Simmie Baer, an attorney with the Children and Family Justice Center at Northwestern University School of Law, said the school's action was an example of zero-tolerance policies gone awry.
Children, she said, are not as sophisticated as adults and often show emotion through writing or pictures, which is what teachers should want because it is a safe outlet.
"They should be able to show their feelings or thoughts without fearing they will be arrested because of them," she said.
On Wednesday, some students at the school rallied behind Lee, organizing a petition drive to have him readmitted. They posted on walls quotes from the English teacher that encouraged students to express their emotions through writing.
"I'm not going to lie. I signed the petition," said senior James Gitzinger. "But I can understand where the administration is coming from. I think I would react the same way if I was a teacher."
Albert Lee came to the United States from China 30 years ago and has lived in Cary for 16 years. His son, Albert Lee said, posted $75 bail Tuesday and later met with a psychiatrist. The teen was not suspended or expelled but was forced to attend classes elsewhere, his father said.
"The teacher graded [the essay] and was disturbed," Albert Lee said. "She reported it to a department head, who reported it to the principal. The first contact I had was by the police, when they arrested him Tuesday."
Arrest outside school
Chief Delelio would only say that Lee was arrested outside of school, near his home on Ardmore Drive.
Albert Lee said his son, a wrestler at Cary-Grove, was "very upset" about the incident, adding that the boy would have no comment.
The essay may have been a joke on his son's part, but he can't say for sure because he hasn't read it, Albert Lee said.
"That's the only logical explanation," said the father, who would not say whether his son had ever had disciplinary problems at school.
Seung Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, was from South Korea. Albert Lee would not say whether he thinks the fact that his son is Chinese-American had any bearing on the incident.
"I can't tell you what they were thinking," he said.
During a short interview at his family's two-story home in a Cary subdivision near the high school, Lee said he felt administrators did the right thing.
He added, however, that he does not think his son is a threat to anyone.
"I definitely think that there is some misunderstanding," he said. "That's my only interpretation of this."
Lee said he was confident his son will graduate as scheduled this year with his class.
"With Virginia Tech, everyone is more sensitive to these kinds of issues," Lee said. "I'm sure if he wrote something last year, nothing would alarm anybody. It's just the timing."
so much for the first amendment. could it have been any more violent than some video games or movies? if we're going to censor; let's censor the source and not the product of the source.
1st Amendment
there was a case in chicago years back where a student painted a picture of the mayor in a dress. he was protected by the 1st amendment and allowed to display the picture.
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
sure, the teacher may have over reacted, but can you blame him? I may have taken the kid aside, and set him in a counselor's office and called his parents to discuss this. But to arrest him, no, that's overreacting. But again... you never know.
I would like to see this paper the kid wrote.
First PJ Show: March 20, 1994 | Ann Arbor | Crisler Arena
Other than to piss him off if he really is angry at the world.
I cannot believe that this is even a possible outcome for utilizing one's artistic freedom.
And I wish I didn't feel quite so disturbed by the fact that he was Asian-American.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Mmmm...smell that Hollywood violence permeating the pores of society. Lock and load my giant popcorn and super biggie coke...the movies about to start.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You might think this is crazy, but it's real, and it's coming. Energy crisis imminent. Viable alternatives of energy aren't happening...wonder why? I'll give you a hint...they're not exactly viable when you zoom out and look at the big picture.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Prepare.html
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and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
im actually kinda excited. free from all societal restraints, id love to set myself up as a warlord in anarchist america.
So everyone has to pay the price for Cho. Maybe someone will stop the next Cho. Maybe someone will stop the next Eric and Dylan. In the meantime, this kid is now labeled and judged by the action of a killer. How many more lives does he get to destroy?
Yes adults might be surprised as you are, but remember that teenagers can be quite in their own world, and maybe don't pay that much attention to the news and current events. How do you know how much he knew about the VT situation?
This is a shame because all its going to do is to teach kids to keep their thoughts INSIDE and become more secretive. It won't stop them having those thoughts.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
Unless this kid wrote an essay detailing how he planned to murder his teacher, or something to a similar effect, this is just plain fucking retarded.
The Bible is full of lies - Stone is the leader of us all!
lol...oh man... I'd love to go back to simpler times, just not in a societal collapse scenario. The right to bear arms will probably become the new first post energy world amendment.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Just as
Bush arresting every muslim aint gonna do squat.
I wonder why so many kids write violent poems or stories? Its not like we live in utopia folks, our world is violent HELLO!!!
Thats what I dont get, its like people are so dense. No wonder kinds would behave so violently. We live in a violent culture.
Tell me this, what happens if you fail to pay rent? What will occur. Well your landlord will be upset. And you most likely will get a letter from the police saying you are evicted and must leave.
Then what happens next?
Then if you still havent paid rent, and still havent left, you most likely will be visited by a big, burly, armed police officer, who will knock on your door.
What will be the response of that officer if he says "please sir or maam, we need you to leave immediately", and you refuse to budge? Whats the response of the officer going to be? Is the response going to be violent?
How about if you steal some groceries from the store? Whats the response by police and the state?
Its funny how in america, we dont give people the basic amenities to live, that YOU are forced to work for food clothes and shelter.
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These discussions on child violence are so absurd. Michael Moore laid it out, and you all refuse to see it. He connected Columbine with the fact clinton dropped more bombs on Kosovo than at any other time up until that point in history since WWII.
School shootings and office shootings and mass murders and people going postal can only be understood one way, they are modern day slave rebellions. And although I dont condone anyone killing, I do think I understand and think this behavior is inevitable under this sick, criminal and immoral system of exploitation and control
Stop child violence?
Stop kids from writing violent poems and lyrics, and stories?
Why not stop the whole culture from its tacit support of violence?
How can you say, the state can murder someone with a letal syringe
The state can murder someone by force, by police?
How can you say the state can murder someone by failing to give them food clothes and shelter?
And yet condemn these child killers
there is no direct correlation between clinton bombing kosovo and what happened at columbine.
however violence does beget violence.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
What the fuck has this world...
but lets be frank, this connection at least is more thought out than the idea that just because kids watch violent video games or listen to Marilyn Manson that they are going to go slaughter other humans.
Your right there is no direct connection of violence but its the most thorough and honest and thoughtful and thoughtout stance on guns and kids and schools I have heard yet/
I am against guns, but I dont support all the liberals who took the time to use the tragedy as a way to suggest we all need to support gun control. Lets face it gun control is only one piece of the puzzle. Lots of other weapons exists and are legal. Why not stop the kids from even considering or getting to the point of murder.
And I dont support the right wing who think the culture is too leniant and that we need to teach more morality, religion and so on in schools.
Both stances are wrong.
To me, this kid isnt just some one who snapped. He went 24 years of his life without murder and violence. His violence was brought on by something. And it sure as hell wasnt listening to Anti Christ Superstar or listening to ozzy or watching American Psycho that drove this kid off the edge.
We always blame people for tragedies like these. Why not blame things or people that are ACTUALLY responsible.
his violence was bought on by psychosis.
yes we live in a violent society. violence is an innate trait that man tries his darndest to suppress. every now and again it's gonna rear it's ugly head with catastrophic results. like columbine. like virginia tech.
war is a tool of capitalism. of a lot of isms for that matter. it's institutionalised violence. much the same as the death penalty.
cho is responsible for his actions. but society can be held responsible for begetting people such as cho.
we are not much different from the other species on earth. it is survival of the fittest and if you can't keep it together you're gonna pay the price. and sometimes society willl pay as well. and when society pays the price it still ignores the ugliness and pretends such acts are abhorrant behaviour.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
arent those part of the violent culture you bemoan? i mean, they glorify violence too.