all it takes for something to exist is...

1…2021232526…30

Comments

  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    about what such things?

    Alien reptilian entities breeding with humans to create hybrids that rule over all humans to this day by exploiting the complex robotic system we operate with, by implanting illusions such as free-will and God to control us.

    Think about it, Christianity is always about forgiving, turning the other cheek, ignoring the atrocities. Turning a blind eye to the real issues. Would this not be a perfect system for influencing large numbers of people to behave specifically?

    I don't necissarily believe that's what happened, but I do beleive Christianity was created for the purpose of influencing decision making. I believe all religions were created for that purpose. It's the same mechanisms used in advertising and propaganda.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Alien reptilian entities breeding with humans to create hybrids that rule over all humans to this day by exploiting the complex robotic system we operate with, by implanting illusions such as free-will and God to control us.

    Think about it, Christianity is always about forgiving, turning the other cheek, ignoring the atrocities. Turning a blind eye to the real issues. Would this not be a perfect system for influencing large numbers of people to behave specifically?

    I don't necissarily believe that's what happened, but I do beleive Christianity was created for the purpose of influencing decision making. I believe all religions were created for that purpose. It's the same mechanisms used in advertising and propaganda.

    well i've got to say they did a piss poor job of controlling us. cos people are hardly docile. and christianity is NOT always about ignoring atrocity or turning a blind eye to issues. many branches are about fighting actively for social justice... for forgiving criminals and loving them and trying to help them alter their ways. how is this different from your contention that we shouldn't condemn criminals, accept their atrocities patiently, and focus on rehabilitating them?

    and once again... you ignore this:

    "and i notice you did not answer my other contentions. even if people agree with your determinism premise, they will diverge over its implications for social issues. thus, it is no better than christianity. just as all christians believe in jesus and the bible, but some favor trying to be compassionate and rehabilitate criminals, and others believe in eye for an eye justice."

    is the problem that you have no answer and realize i am right but dont want to admit it?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    well i've got to say they did a piss poor job of controlling us. cos people are hardly docile. and christianity is NOT always about ignoring atrocity or turning a blind eye to issues. many branches are about fighting actively for social justice... for forgiving criminals and loving them and trying to help them alter their ways. how is this different from your contention that we shouldn't condemn criminals, accept their atrocities patiently, and focus on rehabilitating them?

    Rehabilitate them by filling their heads with illusions. No thanks, I like solidity.
    and once again... you ignore this:

    "and i notice you did not answer my other contentions. even if people agree with your determinism premise, they will diverge over its implications for social issues. thus, it is no better than christianity. just as all christians believe in jesus and the bible, but some favor trying to be compassionate and rehabilitate criminals, and others believe in eye for an eye justice."

    is the problem that you have no answer and realize i am right but dont want to admit it?

    That's not going to happen my friend. All us determinists have the same ideas about social justice. There is no divide, unless the person truly does not understand determinism.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    catefrances wrote:

    jeez guys why don't you just whip 'em out and we'll see whose is bigger? :D:p


    No need. My one is the only one that exists. :D
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    farfromglorified wrote:
    wikipedia articles.




    I don't like citing wikipedia either, for the record. ;)
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Rehabilitate them by filling their heads with illusions. No thanks, I like solidity.

    That's not going to happen my friend. All us determinists have the same ideas about social justice. There is no divide, unless the person truly does not understand determinism.

    it WILL happen, and human nature dictates that. surely as a scientist you can look at human history and see that it is scientific fact that humans are prone to superstition and violence and selfishness. you think by convincing people christianity is wrong they will all suddenly somehow comprehend determinism? that is ridiculous. christians say the same thing: "the hate mongering christians just dont understand jesus' message which is truly about love and service." misinterpretation or misunderstanding will not change that. if determinism becomes widely accepted it will quickly be distorted into just what i've described. just as the original christian message was love and tolerance and acceptance, but it became twisted for personal gain.

    you're the one advocating a mindlessly docile populace here... a people who do not question why they do what they do becos science has already told them how they will behave and will let atrocities go unchecked becos the people committing the atrocities simply cannot help themselves.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Oh, are we talking about intellect? Damn, you might have me beat.

    What happened to this thread? It was swarming, and just as it started to get interesting it turned desolate.

    i can only speak for myself ahnimus. you're too argumentative and confrontational for me to deal with right now.


    Jeanie wrote:
    um......not all spiritual people believe in God or God's will or that everything happens for a reason.

    amen to that sister. :D:D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    No need. My one is the only one that exists. :D
    :D
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    If I die, then who will express my opinion?

    your death will be an expression of that opinion ahnimus. :D:p
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • lucylespian
    lucylespian Posts: 2,403
    soulsinging wrote:
    well i've got to say they did a piss poor job of controlling us. cos people are hardly docile. and christianity is NOT always about ignoring atrocity or turning a blind eye to issues. many branches are about fighting actively for social justice... for forgiving criminals and loving them and trying to help them alter their ways. how is this different from your contention that we shouldn't condemn criminals, accept their atrocities patiently, and focus on rehabilitating them?

    and once again... you ignore this:

    "and i notice you did not answer my other contentions. even if people agree with your determinism premise, they will diverge over its implications for social issues. thus, it is no better than christianity. just as all christians believe in jesus and the bible, but some favor trying to be compassionate and rehabilitate criminals, and others believe in eye for an eye justice."

    is the problem that you have no answer and realize i am right but dont want to admit it?


    This is so ironic it's not even funny.
    At one stage fully one third of inmates of gaols in Queensland had been raised as children in state funded, Church run "Homes". These boys were mostly ophans or had beent aken from their parents for various reasons. They were rasied in a loveless environment, whre they were fed poorly and misytreated. There was no positive role modelling and all education was punitive in nature. Beatings, physical violence and sexual abuse prevailed. There was no recognition of grief a child may have felt for loss of parents or family. The result was that these boys grew up to be social outcasts, misfits and criminals.
    TYhis problem has had so much impact that our State Govt in in teh process of formulating a compensation packae to provide medical, empoyment support and mental health care for these men, several decades later.
    So much for the church loving criminals, they should, they created them !!!
    I very much doubt that Ausrtalia is unique in this fashion.

    BTW ahnimus, I went to lunch.
    Music is not a competetion.
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    catefrances wrote:
    yep spelling duly noted fins. cause it's french that means it has more validity than if it were in english, no? :D:D:p

    It has more validity because it celebrates having less! If ya git meh. ;)
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    It has more validity because it celebrates having less! If ya git meh. ;)

    and you subscribe to derrida's notion fins?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    lucylespian wrote:
    This is so ironic it's not even funny.
    At one stage fully one third of inmates of gaols in Queensland had been raised as children in state funded, Church run "Homes". These boys were mostly ophans or had beent aken from their parents for various reasons. They were rasied in a loveless environment, whre they were fed poorly and misytreated. There was no positive role modelling and all education was punitive in nature. Beatings, physical violence and sexual abuse prevailed. There was no recognition of grief a child may have felt for loss of parents or family. The result was that these boys grew up to be social outcasts, misfits and criminals.
    TYhis problem has had so much impact that our State Govt in in teh process of formulating a compensation packae to provide medical, empoyment support and mental health care for these men, several decades later.
    So much for the church loving criminals, they should, they created them !!!
    I very much doubt that Ausrtalia is unique in this fashion.

    BTW ahnimus, I went to lunch.

    again, the christians would say this was becos some christians distort the message and abuse their position of authority. you put determinism in some sort of authoritative state and people will abuse it to the same ends. the jails will just be run by scientists performing electroshock treatments or lobotomies or surgeries on inmates and whatnot for the purpose of curing them.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    again, the christians would say this was becos some christians distort the message and abuse their position of authority. you put determinism in some sort of authoritative state and people will abuse it to the same ends. the jails will just be run by scientists performing electroshock treatments or lobotomies or surgeries on inmates and whatnot for the purpose of curing them.

    The actual method is to regrow dead brain regions by hyperstimulation. Though I'm not certain the exact method. Electroshock and lobotomies have been out of comission since the invention of neuroscience.

    Check it http://www.brainsource.com/criminal_brain.htm
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The actual method is to regrow dead brain regions by hyperstimulation. Though I'm not certain the exact method. Electroshock and lobotomies have been out of comission since the invention of neuroscience.

    Check it http://www.brainsource.com/criminal_brain.htm

    and that goes against everything freedom stands for. where does it end? do we mess with everybody's brain chemistry becos we think we can make it "better"? pedophile? we've got an operation for that. serial rapist, we can fix that by stimulation. gay? get an operation. believe in jesus? we can cut that part out of you. you don't believe determinism? you're clearly malfunctioning, we will fix you, sit down, strap in, all better!

    i cannot believe you are the one decrying christianity's drive to produce docile homogeneity.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Nana's Helper:

    http://www.cbc.ca/kidscbc/nanashelper.html

    Choose to work on Russell's dog house until you pimp it out (past level 4) or until your brain melts... :D
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    and that goes against everything freedom stands for. where does it end? do we mess with everybody's brain chemistry becos we think we can make it "better"? pedophile? we've got an operation for that. serial rapist, we can fix that by stimulation. gay? get an operation. believe in jesus? we can cut that part out of you. you don't believe determinism? you're clearly malfunctioning, we will fix you, sit down, strap in, all better!

    i cannot believe you are the one decrying christianity's drive to produce docile homogeneity.

    Freedom? You think a person being physically abused as a child is freedom?

    A lot of times, a child is abused and it damages their brain, a person could be in a serious accident, like Phineas Gage, a classic example of a man's brain being impaled by a railroad spike, it caught him in the pre-frontal lobe where all that advanced stuff happens. He was a changed man, he became aggressive and violent, although the extent of which is under question. Gage was the first inclination that the brain is vitally important to decision making and behavior. I don't consider a person free who has a damaged brain. If you found out a part of your brain was dead, wouldn't you feel ripped off? Like you were denied a normal life? It doesn't matter what a person believes, as much as it matters that their brain is intact. You can't really change what a person believes by lobotomizing them. You can only reduce their capacity and remove functions.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    not that all this isn't fascinating, but how does it relate to the original question?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Ahnimus wrote:
    They can stay in the past where they belong. I'm reading up-to-date scientific results and philosophy.

    I used to have a lot of respect for you Dan, but lately you aren't adding to the topics. This is just verbal diahrrea.

    Why thank you.

    I am not addin much to topics lately cause I'm busier than a rabbit in mating-season juggling 2 jobs, applying for others, girlfriend back being long time away, travelling and generally having little time to sit on the net at length. (apart from 2 hours this tuesday) Hence, my comments usually are just quick comments with a humorous slant. As in this case. I have long since missed the boat on this thread, and couldn't resist a word on an interesting heads up of posters. Sue me.

    (edit) it may seem you interpreted this as an attack on you from me, after reading a bit more of this thread. It wasn't. I was just kicking back watching 2 completely at odds notions about to battle it out. Literate deconstructionism/post modernism vs hard science. There was no opnion of you embedded, except perhaps implicitly that I view you as a person who takes to official science pretty often.

    Maybe when things quiet down I may return and post more comprehensively. Planning on making a thread concerning "The Holographic Universe" when I'm done reading it, actually.

    I have respect for you too for the threads you make and good debates, but often, slinging of derogatives for no real reason makes me lose my respect for you.

    You may all continue with the thread now. This is a side-track.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Freedom? You think a person being physically abused as a child is freedom?

    A lot of times, a child is abused and it damages their brain, a person could be in a serious accident, like Phineas Gage, a classic example of a man's brain being impaled by a railroad spike, it caught him in the pre-frontal lobe where all that advanced stuff happens. He was a changed man, he became aggressive and violent, although the extent of which is under question. Gage was the first inclination that the brain is vitally important to decision making and behavior. I don't consider a person free who has a damaged brain. If you found out a part of your brain was dead, wouldn't you feel ripped off? Like you were denied a normal life? It doesn't matter what a person believes, as much as it matters that their brain is intact. You can't really change what a person believes by lobotomizing them. You can only reduce their capacity and remove functions.

    the point is once you ok the government tinkering with people's brains in the name of rehabilitating criminals, other people will take it and run with it as a means of rehabilitating undesirable traits... like homosexuality and so on. your determinism views will not suddenly cure society and make it a utopia, they will be twisted and perverted to rationalize atrocities in the same manner christianity has been, and every other philosophical belief system has been.

Categories