Iraq war, the worst foreign policy mistake un US History

Byrnzie wrote:

Well, maybe in America the situation was different. Not surprising i suppose, when you consider how skewered and subservient to power the media is over there. I still don't think it absolves anyone. Information is freely available to anyone who makes the effort to find it. There's no excuse anymore. People should have learnt the lesson of the Nazi era that you can't believe anything your government tells you, and that you need to read between the lines. The American and British governments made the job too easy in the case of their justifications for invading Iraq, as their lies and desperation were only too obvious. Shame on anyone who fell for that crap.

So i guess you knew more than, say, Collin Powell did ya? People did the best they could with the information provided. People on both sides of the Atlantic fucked up. But this country was, and still is, in a great deal of shock from the horrors of 9/11. We all weren't thinking so clearly back in 01-02. There was a great deal of fear over here, which wasn't improved very much by the abandonment of our "allies". It's still very injurious to many Americans. Maybe not many here, but many who voted cared more about protecting ourselves than about what our n'er do well "allies" thought about it.

Last Exodus wrote:

The United States did not invade South Vietnam. There was a civillian government already present in South Vietnam that was nominally democratic. We never inviaded South OR North Vietnam, even though we should have and could have. Cambodia and Laos is another story. Nixon bombed the shit out of both those countries, true. But both those countries essentially became combatants by allowing the Ho Chi Minh trail to be cut down the middle of their countries.

what would you call it then?

Last Exodus wrote:

Why are you still talking about this? No one denies the intel was faulty. That's yesterdays news. Actually yesteryears news. No one here is saying there is justification for the war. The issue now is, how do we stabilize the region before leaving. You Europeans are more dependent on foreign oil than we are. Unless you guys are 100% ready with your Euro electric cars, you need the region to be stable, just like we do.

...
That's the tough part... where do we go from here?
But, just because we are where we are, doesn't mean we can't beat the fuck out of the asshole that got us here. And at what point do we figure out that listening to this asshole has gotten us deeper and deeper into the shit? When do we say, "ENOUGH! You've been consistantly wrong in the past, why should we believe you now?"
We can stabilize it with tons of troops going out on patrol and living in opolice stations outside of the Green Zone... but, for how long? If I was Muqtada al Sadr... I'd sit tight, knowing that the American HAVE to leave at some point... even if it's 10 years from now... time is on Al Sadr's side. We cannot stay there forever. When we do leave... he can come back in and begin his payback for all those death's under Hussein's watch.
It's tough... but, at some point, we may have to concede that it is a lost cause because the fact of the matter is.. the Shi'ites are in control, now... and it's going to be tough to keep them from eventually teaming up with their brothers in Iran.

Cosmo wrote:

...
That's the tough part... where do we go from here?
But, just because we are where we are, doesn't mean we can't beat the fuck out of the asshole that got us here. And at what point do we figure out that listening to this asshole has gotten us deeper and deeper into the shit? When do we say, "ENOUGH! You've been consistantly wrong in the past, why should we believe you now?"
We can stabilize it with tons of troops going out on patrol and living in opolice stations outside of the Green Zone... but, for how long? If I was Muqtada al Sadr... I'd sit tight, knowing that the American HAVE to leave at some point... even if it's 10 years from now... time is on Al Sadr's side. We cannot stay there forever. When we do leave... he can come back in and begin his payback for all those death's under Hussein's watch.
It's tough... but, at some point, we may have to concede that it is a lost cause because the fact of the matter is.. the Shi'ites are in control, now... and it's going to be tough to keep them from eventually teaming up with their brothers in Iran.

If not for Iran becoming as belligerent as it has, I think we could have been well on our way to being out of there. Alot of the reason we are still in Iraq has less to do with Iraq, then it does with Iran. Do you think Bush really gives two shits anymore about whether Iraq becomes a democracy or not? Hell no. Our Gulf State allies are depending on us to stay and stabilize the region from a menacing Iran. That's the only reason we have not drawn back.
Whether we like it or not, the world depends on that oil. If we walk away from the region before it has its shit together, we are just leaving the door open for Gulf War 3 with Iran.

catefrances wrote:

what would you call it then?

to be historically accurate there was no invasion....at the time they called it an invastion. D=Day was an invasion. i make the distinction for the sake of accuracy.

Last Exodus wrote:

to be historically accurate there was no invasion....at the time they called it an invastion. D=Day was an invasion. i make the distinction for the sake of accuracy.

and the difference being.....?

Last Exodus wrote:

You have to generally shoot at someone to invade....

says who?

and exactly what do you think those thousands of 'military advisors' were there for?

catefrances wrote:

says who?

and exactly what do you think those thousands of 'military advisors' were there for?

why they were there teaching people morals and values the american way of course.

Last Exodus wrote:

why they were there teaching people morals and values the american way of course.

of course. :rolleyes: how silly of me to be ignorant of that fact.

Last Exodus wrote:

Well it was either than or they were there giving cooking lessons...Not sure which

well what ever it was, it certainly wasn't how to successfully execute a war.