Cho Seung-Hui video/pics/manifesto

hippiemom · April 2007

dg1979us wrote:

Thats a leap of logic that you cant substantiate. Sure, he wanted this to be on TV or he would have filmed himself and sent it to NBC. But, it is impossible to say he would or wouldnt have done this if not for the TV aspect.

He obviously wanted to be famous, and we're indulging him and giving him his wish, along with showing similarly disturbed people that this is a really effective way to get yourself noticed.

NCBRI · April 2007

Damn! He mailed off the package between the 2 shootings.

Brain of J.Lo · April 2007

hippiemom wrote:

and we're indulging him and giving him his wish, along with showing similarly disturbed people that this is a really effective way to get yourself noticed.

Yup...and at the same time, exploiting a sad situation and a very sick individual for the sake of sensationalism!

I am so tired of the media.

dg1979us · April 2007

hippiemom wrote:

He obviously wanted to be famous, and we're indulging him and giving him his wish, along with showing similarly disturbed people that this is a really effective way to get yourself noticed.

I dont disagree with that. But you cant possibly say that this wouldnt have happened if not for his wish to be on TV. Perhaps not, but that is just speculation.

meme · April 2007

I don't know how to say this without leading someone to believe I think the shootings were justified or even understandable, but I really think Truejeeper has a point there.

I find it very odd that this society is completely brushing off the fact that there are pockets of immense anger within itself. This is, to me, the dark side of the American dream. This economic system surely encourages hard work and allows for great opportunities, but there are a lot of people down there at the bottom for which it doesn't work at all, and they are angry as hell. Some dull their anger with drugs, some go about realizing that dream in any way they can, legal or illegal, some just fucking lose it.

Obviously not all of them go around killing people, obviously there was deep suffering and pain in this case that went deeper than just something society-related, pain which apparently lead to severe psychological disturbances. But really... I think some thinking needs to be done about these issues too.

dg1979us · April 2007

meme wrote:

I don't know how to say this without leading someone to believe I think the shootings were justified or even understandable, but I really think Truejeeper has a point there.

I find it very odd that this society is completely brushing off the fact that there are pockets of immense anger within itself. This is, to me, the dark side of the American dream. This economic system surely encourages hard work and allows for great opportunities, but there are a lot of people down there at the bottom for which it doesn't work at all, and they are angry as hell. Some dull their anger with drugs, some go about realizing that dream in any way they can, legal or illegal, some just fucking lose it.

Obviously not all of them go around killing people, obviously there was deep suffering and pain in this case that went deeper than just something society-related, pain which apparently lead to severe psychological disturbances. But really... I think some thinking needs to be done about these issues too.

But this kid was a senior at a really good school. I cant see how it can be concluded he was at the bottom of society.

Not to mention he is from centerville VA, which is in Fairfax co which is supposedly one of the richest counties in the country. I have no idea of his economic background, and dont know much about centerville, but it doesnt seem to be a real downtrodden town.

soulsinging · April 2007

cinredzfan47 wrote:

Clearly there was mental illness, that's why he was recommended for psychiatric help. The problem is that the process of buying a gun is too easy. If you've ever been recommended for psychiatric help, you have no business holding or owning a gun. I don't care if you seem like a normal guy. He wasn't. Another thought is the fact that on numerous occasions the University had serious complaints about this kid. He was asked to leave a class for taking pictures of girls' legs with his phone, not to mention his extremely disturbing writing. I'm not calling for censorship of writing, but the warning signs were there, and they were stronger in this case than they have been in many cases of youth violence in suicide. The school, state, and entire gun system messed up. I recognize the importance of states' rights, but the federal gun laws need to be changed. Anyone who wants to purchase a gun should have to go through a background check that is just as intense as if they were applying to be a government employee. If the individual states want to add further regulations, go for it. But before that happens, the federal laws need to be stricter, end of story. I have no problem with the right to bear arms, but that right should only apply to those people who have completely clean slates. If you've been arrested, tough cookies, YOU CAN'T BUY A GUN. If you've been recommended by the courts for mental help, NO FUCKING GUN. Officials at the school need to held accountable for much of what happened, and the gun laws need to be reevaluated.

Sorry for the rant.

the u.s. attorney's office refused to hire me as an unpaid volunteer student law clerk for a temporary summer position because i was arrested for drunk driving over 2 years ago. but i can still buy a gun.

meme · April 2007

dg1979us wrote:

But this kid was a senior at a really good school. I cant see how it can be concluded he was at the bottom of society.

Fair enough. His family immigrated from South Korea and owned a dry cleaner. I can easily see him ashamed of his origins, or not being able to afford things other kids were able to afford. Sometimes being allowed into the circle of the well-off makes you feel the pain of inequality even more bitterly.

Again, I am not excusing the killings, nor suggesting we need a communist revolution to make everything better. I am just saying that before we conclude (and we may rightfully conclude this!) that this is just a mental health issue, we would be well advised as a society to try and understand the anger our economic and political institutions sometimes produce.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau had talked about this a while ago

dg1979us · April 2007

meme wrote:

Fair enough. His family immigrated from South Korea and owned a dry cleaner. I can easily see him ashamed of his origins, or not being able to afford things other kids were able to afford. Sometimes being allowed into the circle of the well-off makes you feel the pain of inequality even more bitterly.

Again, I am not excusing the killings, nor suggesting we need a communist revolution to make everything better. I am just saying that before we conclude (and we may rightfully conclude this!) that this is just a mental health issue, we would be well advised as a society to try and understand the anger our economic and political institutions sometimes produce.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau had talked about this a while ago

I know you arent justifying the killings, and I agree that there are several issues that need to be examined. But I think we need to make sure we look at the right issues, and Im not sure the "poor issue" is really a factor, because he obviously had himself in a position to at least have a chance at a promising future. Obviously more information will come from this, and you could certainly have a point. But at this time I honestly think he was just a fucked up kid who didnt get the proper treatment. And I am certainly not one for throwing drugs at every person who seems a little different, because some people are just different, but I do think there are real psychological problems that need to be addressed. And obviously, his were not addressed properly.

scw156 · April 2007

Trujeeper wrote:

It is so easy to look at this guy as a nutcase, loony, crazy...whatever. Yes, he probably is crazy...but what is he saying?

I can't help but rant. I am a college graduate. I remember the sorority girls and frat guys. I remember the way they acted. I remember the way faculty and staff treated the frat guys and sorority girls. I remember sitting in class watching them get extensions on their papers because they had some sort of frat house thing and didn't get their work done. Mine was completed and turned in on time. I got the same A.

i can't say i COMPLETELY agree with you on this.

I graduated just under 4 months ago, yes, there are frat and sorority people who are jerks and think they are better, who also happen to be rich.

On my campus, few people got extensions etc. IF there was an "event" that WAS going to impede someones progress on completing a paper they would have to work it out with the professor, whatever arrangement that would be. And when the situation did come up where something would be late, alot of frat/sorority types WOULD be doing something for the greater good of the community. We have THON at PSU, its a 48 hour dance marathon to raise money for kids with cancer and other illnesses. Frats/sororities (along with other student organizations) put MAJOR time into it for a good 10 months out of the year. They go canning across the country to raise money and then at the actual event, many of them dance for 48 straight hours for a sick child who is living or in one's memory. Thats 48 hours of standing... no sitting, no breaks. So of course professors give those people a break, they are being selfless for kids and raising over 5 million dollars, why not. It sucks you've had such terrible experiences with the faculty/staff possibly abusing power etc.

Also, this Cho Seung-Hui guy was a total loaner. People did try to talk to him, invited him places in the beginning.(of course there were probably the asshole here or there that made fun or something) Also, there are SO many student organizations he could have joined to feel a part of something, not just a fraternity. There are hundreds of groups that get together from book clubs, to astronomy, to dungeons and dragons, you name it, people gather to be around people who are alike. So I think he may have been abused and had metal illnesses and probably DIDN'T have a group to belong to... only because I don't think there was a huge student interest in forming a "Write terrible plays and be a psycho who stalks girls" club.

MLC2006 · April 2007

he was not one of a small number of people in this world that are "angry". in fact, I would guess that MOST people are angry or bitter about something or other. there are probably MANY people that are as mad or MORE angry and bitter than this guy. the problem was, that on top of that, he had severe mental problems and ignored the help that was offered him. those 2 things coupled together made for a lethal situation.

what I'm saying here is that there are people who are bitter and angry, and then there are people with mental problems. but if you have a person who is bitter/angry AND has mental problems, you better hope they're taking their prescriptions. and of course there are other circumstances too.....too easy to get a gun, he was probably the only person of his race in every class he ever had all the way through school, obviously couldn't make a lot of friends and not popular with girls. possibly was abused. there were circumstances. but there is nothing that society can do to alleviate all these circumstances. so it therefore becomes more important for society to be on it's guard, because there's no way to ever try to make everybody be happy-go-lucky. it's an impossibility.

but whatever the circumstances, his points became null and void (to me) when he decided to murder 32 innocent people who were not the cause of his problems.

mammasan · April 2007

hippiemom wrote:

He obviously wanted to be famous, and we're indulging him and giving him his wish, along with showing similarly disturbed people that this is a really effective way to get yourself noticed.

I couldn't agree withn you more. I was sickened to see the media airing this guys crazy ramblings. I can understand professionals revuing the material to better understand what was going on in his head, but there is no need to glorify his actions by airing his video and pictures.

suntzu98 · April 2007

There is no way to prevent this from happening again. If there is blame here it may lie with the court that didn't remand him to mental health facility, maybe. His parents didn't make him this way and we should say a prayer for them as well; they lost someone as well. I would just like to point out that NBC broadcast this "manifesto" but said "we recognize this is hurtful, and painful to all involved" however we need ratings and we are gonna air this. What the fuck is wrong with NBC?

meme · April 2007

dg1979us wrote:

I know you arent justifying the killings, and I agree that there are several issues that need to be examined. But I think we need to make sure we look at the right issues, and Im not sure the "poor issue" is really a factor, because he obviously had himself in a position to at least have a chance at a promising future. Obviously more information will come from this, and you could certainly have a point. But at this time I honestly think he was just a fucked up kid who didnt get the proper treatment. And I am certainly not one for throwing drugs at every person who seems a little different, because some people are just different, but I do think there are real psychological problems that need to be addressed. And obviously, his were not addressed properly.

Oh, I think you are right. I just think something good maybe can come out of this tragedy. It's not even the poor thing. It's the taste for competition, for making inequality hurt, it's tolerating the abuse that kids, teenagers, and college students heap upon each other and the weakest among them.

I am trying to understand things that could be done or said so that the pain and anger of a child don't turn murderous like this. My child was telling me this morning about someone in his class telling him he hates him cause he is not a cool kid. Then he stopped and said "but people who hate other people are not cool". I asked him whether he had come up with such a smart thought, or someone had told him. He said his friend Ben told him. I'm just hoping for lots of Bens scattered among kids in this country.

mammasan · April 2007

suntzu98 wrote:

There is no way to prevent this from happening again. If there is blame here it may lie with the court that didn't remand him to mental health facility, maybe. His parents didn't make him this way and we should say a prayer for them as well; they lost someone as well. I would just like to point out that NBC broadcast this "manifesto" but said "we recognize this is hurtful, and painful to all involved" however we need ratings and we are gonna air this. What the fuck is wrong with NBC?

Well the courts did remand him to a mental health facility but under the law they can only keep you for 72 hours unless while under their care you continue to display actions and thought of hurting yourself and/or others or the patients willingly decides to stay for more treatment.

rybes · April 2007

meme wrote:

Apparently a 12 year old can legally buy a gun in the state of Virginia

Am I the only one who finds this beyond ridiculous? You cannot even legally purchase a video game that contains a lot of violence, watch any PG13 or R movies at this age. You cannot legally drink or drive. However you have the right to purchase a firearm?

Trujeeper · April 2007

meme wrote:

Fair enough. His family immigrated from South Korea and owned a dry cleaner. I can easily see him ashamed of his origins, or not being able to afford things other kids were able to afford. Sometimes being allowed into the circle of the well-off makes you feel the pain of inequality even more bitterly.

Again, I am not excusing the killings, nor suggesting we need a communist revolution to make everything better. I am just saying that before we conclude (and we may rightfully conclude this!) that this is just a mental health issue, we would be well advised as a society to try and understand the anger our economic and political institutions sometimes produce.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau had talked about this a while ago

Thank you so much meme for stating my position on this so much better than I could get accross.

No I'm not a retard. Look at our society people! If you have never been poor, I understand why you find it hard to see this. If you have been poor, it is clear. Some haven't ever been poor and they can empathize. Just think about it. Our society has failed a LOT of people.

This failure clearly generates anger...do you drug it with happy pills and booze? Should we institutionalize anyone who can't afford their house payments for fear that they will snap?

Yeah, I guess this means I am a communist or a nutcase...or a retard.

Trujeeper · April 2007

Does anyone remember Jeremy Wade-Delle? Would it have been better for this nutcase to just shoot himself, yes but you would not be looking at the story anymore. I hate to put it that way...and I am so heartbroken about these poor innocent victims...

This is why I wanted to become a teacher...someone needs to be on the lookout for this exact thing! I will take up that task. I WILL be on the lookout for that troubled kid...so maybe I can help him or get him some help...before it is too late...before he gets to college...before he buys a gun...before he makes such a bad decision...before his mental state gets that far gone...

hippiemom · April 2007

mammasan wrote:

I couldn't agree withn you more. I was sickened to see the media airing this guys crazy ramblings. I can understand professionals revuing the material to better understand what was going on in his head, but there is no need to glorify his actions by airing his video and pictures.

People for whatever reason seem to need to get their sick thrills watching this stuff. I think it's disgusting, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a very disturbed young man is out there somewhere watching the news and shooting his own videos in preparation for his very own killing spree.

Eye on the the TV
'Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor it happens to be, like...
"Killed by the husband"
"Drowned by the ocean"
"Shot by his own son"
"See used a poison
in his tea...kissed him goodbye"
It's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies

Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie

While the mother holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying,
"Why, oh why?"

Cause I need to watch things die... from a distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
write as the story's told
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

I need to watch things die... from a good safe distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same, so...

Why can't we just admit it?

Blood like rain falling down
Drawn by the brave and proud

Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivorous Voyuer
Stare at the transmitter
Sing to the death rattle

La, la, la, la, la, la-la-lie (x4)

Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
But pull your head on out
you hippies and give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again

The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been

We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I

mammasan · April 2007

hippiemom wrote:

People for whatever reason seem to need to get their sick thrills watching this stuff. I think it's disgusting, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a very disturbed young man is out there somewhere watching the news and shooting his own videos in preparation for his very own killing spree.

Eye on the the TV
'Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor it happens to be, like...
"Killed by the husband"
"Drowned by the ocean"
"Shot by his own son"
"See used a poison
in his tea...kissed him goodbye"
It's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies

Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie

While the mother holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying,
"Why, oh why?"

Cause I need to watch things die... from a distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
write as the story's told
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

I need to watch things die... from a good safe distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same, so...

Why can't we just admit it?

Blood like rain falling down
Drawn by the brave and proud

Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivorous Voyuer
Stare at the transmitter
Sing to the death rattle

La, la, la, la, la, la-la-lie (x4)

Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
But pull your head on out
you hippies and give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again

The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been

We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I

While agree with you that airing this is disgusting I don't think it will cause another person to go on a shooting spree. Regardless of the level of media coverage if someone wants to go out and kill scores of people they will do it.

Cho Seung-Hui video/pics/manifesto

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