U S Big 3 Auto

You know a funny thing happened at work today. These guys at work were talking about bailing out the us auto industry. They said we had to no matter what. I then asked them what cars they drove.... Not a single one of them drove a US made car.

It makes no sense to bailout the us auto companies if no one buys them. I myself have never bought a non us made car but if ti goes it goes... Just like the steel industry... Its a free market.

farfromglorified wrote:

I wish you the best of luck making that case.

You don't think that if these companies go under there will not be a huge increase in people receiving government aid.

jbalicki10 wrote:

I understand your point, however is the US government suppose to buy All these unsold cars? What's the point to manufacture cars people aren't buying? When the government runs out of money buying these cars, what now? You just prolonged the ordeal...

I'm not saying we should just hand over the money with no strings attached. There should definitely be a list of objectives that the companies have to meet to order to obtain the funding. Also we shouldn't just hand over the entire amount all at one time. The companies would have to meet a set of objectives before any more funds are issued. I would never support handing over billions of dollars to companies that have shown to be inept at managing themselves.

mammasan wrote:

I'm not saying we should just hand over the money with no strings attached. There should definitely be a list of objectives that the companies have to meet to order to obtain the funding. Also we shouldn't just hand over the entire amount all at one time. The companies would have to meet a set of objectives before any more funds are issued. I would never support handing over billions of dollars to companies that have shown to be inept at managing themselves.

Yeah but we did with AIG and now they want more... Good luck with these companies actually setting up a plan and firing all their top leadership who drove them to the ground. It would simply be better to give a cheap loan to a startup car manufacturer or give the money to Honda/Toyota/whoever else to come here and setup shop to replace those jobs with guranteed positions for x amount of years.

jbalicki10 wrote:

Yeah but we did with AIG and now they want more... Good luck with these companies actually setting up a plan and firing all their top leadership who drove them to the ground. It would simply be better to give a cheap loan to a startup car manufacturer or give the money to Honda/Toyota/whoever else to come here and setup shop to replace those jobs with guranteed positions for x amount of years.

And we should learn from our mistakes. We shouldn't just hand over the money with no string attached. Like I said i would never endorse an idea to just hand over money to a company without stipulations and oversight. I guess it's a moot point arguing because are government will never do that so I will end up opposing the bail out.

farfromglorified wrote:

Of course there will! Remind me again how what you're proposing has anything to do with preventing these companies "going under".

I haven't proposed anything. All i have said is I would probably support the bail out if there where stipulations attached to it to ensure that the companies receiving the money didn't just continue with their bad management process. Never once did I propose a plan or even state that any type of bail out would save these companies.

If I was to propose a plan it would be to infuse a limited amount of capital to these companies in order for them to restructure themselves to run more efficiently and for research into more energy efficient and affordable vehicles. There would be a list of objectives that management would need to meet in order for them to receive a second phase of capital if so needed. This way you are not merely bailing out a company but investing in it. Again I would only support a plan like this one not some no strings attached blank check which is what Congress will likely do.

Kel Varnsen wrote:

That is sort of what I was thinking. Instead of giving money to a failing company, why not give it to a successful company as an incentive to open up a bunch of plants in the US. I mean lets say GM and Ford both go under tomorrow. I don't think the other car companies with their current production levels could meet the demand for cars. But if they could increase their production level they could make a lot of money. So why not make a loan to say Toyota to allow them to open up a bunch of plants in the US (or to buy and retool a bunch of GM plants) and then let the companies that are broke fail.

I would also support that as well.

farfromglorified wrote:

A loan would be completely unnecessary. Obviously, if GM and Ford die, a big portion of the market opens up to competition. Companies like Honda and Toyota have been building factories in the US for the past 20 years -- I have no doubt they'd continue to do so and would act quickly to capture that market share.

While using federal money as investment is certainly preferrable to using it for bailouts, who in their right mind would trust Washington to make good investments???

Oh for sure they would act quickly to capture the market share, I only proposed using government money in this way instead of using it to prop up dying companies if they were going to spend it anyways. And use the money so that say if GM dies they get the car companies to build or buy extra plants in North America, rather than say building more plants in other countries.

I only read the first page but my opnion on the auto industry is this:

If they didn't continue making shitty cars since the 80's we wouldn't have this problems. The big 3 are nothing but lazy cost cutting pussies who's only incentive is to build cars for Rent a Wreck and Hertz. To some people, quality isn't that important, but most car people care. Sit inside of a new Avenger or Focus (cheap plastic, poor styling, sloshy performance), then sit inside of a Jetta. I guarentee you a fully loaded Avenger is still worse then a base Jetta.

I will continue buying European cars till I die. A European car is miles better then anything this country has to offer, or Japan as well.

12345AGNST1 wrote:

I only read the first page but my opnion on the auto industry is this:

If they didn't continue making shitty cars since the 80's we wouldn't have this problems. The big 3 are nothing but lazy cost cutting pussies who's only incentive is to build cars for Rent a Wreck and Hertz. To some people, quality isn't that important, but most car people care. Sit inside of a new Avenger or Focus (cheap plastic, poor styling, sloshy performance), then sit inside of a Jetta. I guarentee you a fully loaded Avenger is still worse then a base Jetta.

I will continue buying European cars till I die. A European car is miles better then anything this country has to offer, or Japan as well.

Can I have a VW R44 instead? Or one of the new 73MPG diesels?

The thing with the diesel technology is that we know it can be used cleanly and efficiently because they use diesel locomotives (filtered) in coal mines. It's not un reasonable to imagine that they can be made reasonably efficient and much more environmentally friendly.