U S Big 3 Auto

beachdweller

So should we bail out the big three U S auto makers? We've done it before, and yet they have never been run well. What will change if we bail them out this time?

The other side is losing that many more jobs during this economic crisis. Looks like another 240,000 lost in the last month.

jimed14

I don't know if it's possible, but, if the US auto industry was somehow retooled and became the leader in alternative energy autos ... it would be pretty huge for the U.S.

Not sure how we get there, but, it's a nice (pipe?) dream ...

jbalicki10

beachdweller wrote:

So should we bail out the big three U S auto makers? We've done it before, and yet they have never been run well. What will change if we bail them out this time?

The other side is losing that many more jobs during this economic crisis. Looks like another 240,000 lost in the last month.

We already gave them bailout money... They want even more? The more you give... the more they take...

nothinghead

Let's just keep propping them up...how could we go wrong with that?

"Fuck ingenuity, we don't need to work on creating better products or raising fuel efficiency to create a more desirable vehicle...let's just fire people and the government will give us money."

The money is in progress--in fuel efficiency and emissions enhancements. We need the auto industry, but not more than the auto industry has needed us the last decade. Maybe..maybe if they come up with a worthwhile proposal for getting themselves together, we help them. But it seems unlikely. We've been down this road before.

MrBrian

jimed14 wrote:

I don't know if it's possible, but, if the US auto industry was somehow retooled and became the leader in alternative energy autos ... it would be pretty huge for the U.S.

Not sure how we get there, but, it's a nice (pipe?) dream ...

Or they could just start out by building better cars.

jimed14

MrBrian wrote:

Or they could just start out by building better cars.

well, a plan to build these cars before we fund them is kind of a prerequisite to my statement.

jbalicki10

MrBrian wrote:

Or they could just start out by building better cars.

They are building the Chevy Volt which is an electric car. They did put a huge investment in it. Should be interesting if it takes off...

yoke

MrBrian wrote:

Or they could just start out by building better cars.

Whats wrong with the cars? Honestly, I don't understand this statement. I know plenty of people who have older and some newer American cars that are in great shape. Hell, I have a 2001 F150(I know its a truck but its still American) and its in great shape. Same with my wifes 2002 Escape.

I hear people say this all the time. I know plenty of people who had a fare share of POS Hondas,Toyotas and VW's. I think it goes both ways.

yoke

jbalicki10 wrote:

They are building the Chevy Volt which is an electric car. They did put a huge investment in it. Should be interesting if it takes off...

I think the last I heard its upwards of 45k or so now. It was supposed to be for the "every" man. I don't know to many people that can swing that price. Maybe in 10 years the price will come down on it. I am on the mailing list for the car so I get updates all the time.

MrBrian

yoke wrote:

Whats wrong with the cars? Honestly, I don't understand this statement. I know plenty of people who have older and some newer American cars that are in great shape. Hell, I have a 2001 F150(I know its a truck but its still American) and its in great shape. Same with my wifes 2002 Escape.

I hear people say this all the time. I know plenty of people who had a fare share of POS Hondas,Toyotas and VW's. I think it goes both ways.

I think if you compare them pound for pound, American cars are just behind in mainly ways...including quality,technology, performance, handling and whatever else.

and for some reason the seats and cup holders keep getting bigger, but that could be them trying to accommodate the ever growing American belly.

Interesting about VW, I know they had poor quality cars for some time. But thats quickly changing, plus they have pretty much been taken over by Porsche so expect big changes.

jimed14

yoke wrote:

I think the last I heard its upwards of 45k or so now. It was supposed to be for the "every" man. I don't know to many people that can swing that price. Maybe in 10 years the price will come down on it. I am on the mailing list for the car so I get updates all the time.

again, I look at it like the computer industy ... the first computers were clunky, big, not that powerful, and expensive ...

how about cell phones ... remember the size and price of these babies?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6AF5W26iLE&feature=related

MrBrian

jbalicki10 wrote:

They are building the Chevy Volt which is an electric car. They did put a huge investment in it. Should be interesting if it takes off...

Yeah, looks interesting, it had some major over heating issues. The car was catching fire I believe. But they say that problem is solved.

MrBrian

jimed14 wrote:

well, a plan to build these cars before we fund them is kind of a prerequisite to my statement.

I think they first need to understand that they build bad cars. Compared on average to the Germans and the Japanese.

jbalicki10

MrBrian wrote:

I think they first need to understand that they build bad cars. Compared on average to the Germans and the Japanese.

Not true, I still own my 96 chevy caprice and 99 ford ranger. Never had major problems.... People just don't like older cars thats all.

jbalicki10

yoke wrote:

I think the last I heard its upwards of 45k or so now. It was supposed to be for the "every" man. I don't know to many people that can swing that price. Maybe in 10 years the price will come down on it. I am on the mailing list for the car so I get updates all the time.

Crap, if its 45k its going to bomb... If it was 25k to 35k they got a winner..

yoke

MrBrian wrote:

I think if you compare them pound for pound, American cars are just behind in mainly ways...including quality,technology, performance, handling and whatever else.

and for some reason the seats and cup holders keep getting bigger, but that could be them trying to accommodate the ever growing American belly.

Interesting about VW, I know they had poor quality cars for some time. But thats quickly changing, plus they have pretty much been taken over by Porsche so expect big changes.

I can see your point but I have to disagree.. I love the US designs and builds(with the exception of Dodge Trucks). Don't get me wrong, if I could afford a Porsche I would get one but I can't. Plus I couldn't fit my tools in them and I am not tieing my longboard to the roof of one.

Okay then we disagree but oh well.

yoke

jimed14 wrote:

again, I look at it like the computer industy ... the first computers were clunky, big, not that powerful, and expensive ...

how about cell phones ... remember the size and price of these babies?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6AF5W26iLE&feature=related

I agree 100%, thats why I said ten years.. I remember my first cell phone back in 95 and I think it was the size of my hand and it had a wire antenna and the battery lasted about 1 hour. Hell my first computer was a Commodore 64(haha). I waited ten years and then I built my own. I was in "cyberspace" with my blazing 9.6 baud modem.

Technology does change and does gets better and cheaper. I will just have to wait for it.

ajedigecko

does anyone know if "wagon makers" asked for a bailout?

MrBrian

yoke wrote:

I can see your point but I have to disagree.. I love the US designs and builds(with the exception of Dodge Trucks). Don't get me wrong, if I could afford a Porsche I would get one but I can't. Plus I couldn't fit my tools in them and I am not tieing my longboard to the roof of one.

Okay then we disagree but oh well.

Ok, I do agree that the US makes a decent truck. Part of the time. But the Japanese Toyota Tundra is pretty good.

Well if you ever do get money for the Porsche, you know they are making a Hybrid Cayenne. Enough space for your tools and longboard right ontop

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/15/la-2007-porsche-cayenne-hybrid-goes-75mph-on-battery-power/

MrBrian

jbalicki10 wrote:

Not true, I still own my 96 chevy caprice and 99 ford ranger. Never had major problems.... People just don't like older cars thats all.

Of course. Always exceptions. But I was speaking in more general terms.

blackredyellow

ajedigecko wrote:

does anyone know if "wagon makers" asked for a bailout?

Didn't they get one already?


Oh, right... that was wooden arrow makers.