Russian Forces Invade Georgia

1…6781012

Comments

  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    So now Bush is aiding the people of Georgia so quickly. What about the people in Darfur? Is it because they are black and have no money or resources?

    And what if one of our military jets dropping supplies off gets shot at by Russian's. Does this mean nuclear holocaust tomorrow?

    Yes, Kanye. Its because they're black.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    Well for starters many of the same world leaders who are now condemning Russia. The point is that yes Russia crossing into Georgia has completely crossed the line and turned, what was, a justifiable military actions into an aggressive invasion. I figured that much was pretty clear, but what can you expect when we and Israel have already set the status quo as to what is acceptable military action. I mean for Christ's sake, the US ambassador to the UN was stating that the free world would not stand by while one country invaded another sovereign country. He must be shitting me, or have a very short memory span, because that is exactly what we did with Iraq and Israel with Lebanon. The president has been set and none of our leader have any moral authority left to stand there and condemn Russia's action regardless of how inappropriate they are.

    this is true. but the thing is, Russia has a history of invading other countries and calling them their own. I think thats what the world is worried about.

    the US and Israel may have been wrong but they were not trying to extend their borders.
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Yes, Kanye. Its because they're black.
    Or poor? Or no resources? Your guess is as good of mine..
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    Or poor? Or no resources? Your guess is as good of mine..

    Glad you didn't get mad about the joke ... I see your point. Oil? Who knows? Everyone pretty much ignores the genocide that happens in Darfur ... Its ridiculous.
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Glad you didn't get mad about the joke ... I see your point. Oil? Who knows? Everyone pretty much ignores the genocide that happens in Darfur ... Its ridiculous.
    It just pisses me off that we are so quick to butt in on Russia and Georgia. It's like our government wants to usher in WW3.. We have much bigger things to worry about that affect us more directly than getting into a suicidal shoving match with Russia.. If we really wanted to play humanitarian hero, what about Africa is all I'm saying..
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    It just pisses me off that we are so quick to butt in on Russia and Georgia. It's like our government wants to usher in WW3.. We have much bigger things to worry about that affect us more directly than getting into a suicidal shoving match with Russia.. If we really wanted to play humanitarian hero, what about Africa is all I'm saying..

    Its is all subtle (or not so subtle) political games ... The West shores up its allies, Russia shores up theirs ... Its a dance that's been happening for decades, despite the Cold War supposedly being over.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Well, I see your point, but its worth mentioning that the UN did NOT support Israel's actions in Lebanon. In fact, the UN decries pretty much everything Israel does. This is not a pot-shot at the UN, just a statement of fact. Let's say Israel takes a collective sneeze ... The UN would surely accuse them of deploying some sort of newly-developed chemical weapon against Arabs. :)

    Maybe I should have expressed my view better. I am not in agreement with Russia's actions. The minute they crossed the boarder into Georgia their actions became unjustifiable, in my book. My main gripe is hearing people like Bush, and other members of his administration, or people who supported/support the invasion of Iraq condemn Russia. I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard our government expects the rest of the world to live by. I'm not saying that Russia has the right to invade Georgia simply because we invaded Iraq or Israel invaded Lebanon. I'm stating that the people who commanded/ordered/supported these actions really have no right to condemn the Russians in this case when the Russians are simply following their playbook.

    I'm also aware that the UN has it out for Israel but let's be honest Israel's invasion of Lebanon was completely uncalled for. I believe that israel has a right to exist and that it has a right to protect itself and it people from harm, but the invasion of Lebanon was nothing more than an a heavy handed use of brutal force for the sake of revenge.

    Our leaders also have to come to the realization that our actions have consequences and sometimes it produces a completely different reaction than we anticipated. (Let me say that I don't blame the US in any way shape or form for what is happening in Georgia before I go on.) We have been pushing the Russians into a corner since the end of the Cold War and they finally bit back. We can not expect the world to just let us do as we please with any consequences. So if we determine that pre-emptive military action against another sovereign nation is acceptable then we have to expect other nations to follow course.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    this is true. but the thing is, Russia has a history of invading other countries and calling them their own. I think thats what the world is worried about.

    the US and Israel may have been wrong but they were not trying to extend their borders.

    Yes Russia does have a bad habit of doing that. I'm not going to argue that point and I definitely understand the concern of Russia returning to her old ways. But in my book I don't really see much of a difference between invasion and domination verses invasion and creation of a puppet government.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    Yes Russia does have a bad habit of doing that. I'm not going to argue that point and I definitely understand the concern of Russia returning to her old ways. But in my book I don't really see much of a difference between invasion and domination verses invasion and creation of a puppet government.

    o I see a huge difference. HUGE. but to all his own.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    mammasan wrote:
    Maybe I should have expressed my view better. I am not in agreement with Russia's actions. The minute they crossed the boarder into Georgia their actions became unjustifiable, in my book. My main gripe is hearing people like Bush, and other members of his administration, or people who supported/support the invasion of Iraq condemn Russia. I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard our government expects the rest of the world to live by. I'm not saying that Russia has the right to invade Georgia simply because we invaded Iraq or Israel invaded Lebanon. I'm stating that the people who commanded/ordered/supported these actions really have no right to condemn the Russians in this case when the Russians are simply following their playbook.

    I'm also aware that the UN has it out for Israel but let's be honest Israel's invasion of Lebanon was completely uncalled for. I believe that israel has a right to exist and that it has a right to protect itself and it people from harm, but the invasion of Lebanon was nothing more than an a heavy handed use of brutal force for the sake of revenge.

    Our leaders also have to come to the realization that our actions have consequences and sometimes it produces a completely different reaction than we anticipated. (Let me say that I don't blame the US in any way shape or form for what is happening in Georgia before I go on.) We have been pushing the Russians into a corner since the end of the Cold War and they finally bit back. We can not expect the world to just let us do as we please with any consequences. So if we determine that pre-emptive military action against another sovereign nation is acceptable then we have to expect other nations to follow course.

    Agreed. My view is that the Russians are less like a dog that's been baited too many times and more like the little brother who has always been trying to outdo his older counterpart ... But yeah. I am picking up what you are putting down.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    o I see a huge difference. HUGE. but to all his own.

    It's just different methods of expanded your influence across the globe. Russia was always more straight forward. The Red Army rolled in and you where now part of the Soviet Union. The US was always a bit more secretive and cloak & dagger about it. A little coup here a little coup there, sprinkle a little rebellious uprisings in between.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    It's just different methods of expanded your influence across the globe. Russia was always more straight forward. The Red Army rolled in and you where now part of the Soviet Union. The US was always a bit more secretive and cloak & dagger about it. A little coup here a little coup there, sprinkle a little rebellious uprisings in between.

    yes different methods. but with some very big differences.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    yes different methods. but with some very big differences.

    Tell that to the people who where oppressed under US backed dictators. I'm sure their oppression was no different than that suffered under the Iron Curtain.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    really ... listening to bush talk about sovereignty of georgians makes me ill ... that cocksucker needs to be put in jail ... in iraq ...
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Russia asking US to choose sides.
    ---

    Interesting,
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    It just pisses me off that we are so quick to butt in on Russia and Georgia. It's like our government wants to usher in WW3.. We have much bigger things to worry about that affect us more directly than getting into a suicidal shoving match with Russia.. If we really wanted to play humanitarian hero, what about Africa is all I'm saying..
    i agree basically, but i would hope our governement takes our own people's defense into account when making decisions about which conflicts to butt in on (not that they do). that is why we elect them, after all. i'm not so sure we should try to be world police, but if the choice between putting out one fire over another comes down to one being more of a threat to us, thats not automatically bad.

    but yeah, ignoring Darfur is pretty pathetic.
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    anyone watching CNN right now, listen to the presidnet of Georgia. He's crazy.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    MrBrian wrote:
    Russia asking US to choose sides.
    ---

    Interesting,

    Seems to me like they've already picked the Georgian side ... Humanitarian aid is flying in as we speak, and we probably aren't hearing about the Stinger missiles (good against MiGs) and other sundry military goodies.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    MrBrian wrote:
    anyone watching CNN right now, listen to the presidnet of Georgia. He's crazy.

    He's ... Different. I'd still take Putin in a head-to-head insanity contest, though.
  • freindlyfired
    freindlyfired Posts: 297
    anyone who thinks US has no part in this is a sillyhead...

    US established the puppet Saakashvili as president, trained Georgian fighters, tried to get Georgia in NATO.
    Georgia supplied the second most troops to Iraq (2000) behind Britain.

    Wiki NED and NATO to further your thought.

Categories