Bonobo Sex!

24

Comments

  • ~~~
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    For example...(heehee, i'm gonna get banned, maybe...)

    Kat is the lead bonobo chimp here.

    I thought Bonobos and Chimpanzees were a different species. :p

    Chimpanzees are brutally violent, but they get into a lot of sex too.

    For whatever reason, humans are the only species on the planet that think sex can be a bad thing.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    this is an old question.

    think about structure and the imposition of social norms. what we do is trendy. if penis fencing, gg, incestual relations, and sexual conduct with infants and children was fashionable we would be engaging in such activity because it would be rewarding.

    I have no doubt in my mind that we did do that at one time.

    I'm not entirely sure I know why we don't. I've always struggled with this image of Good or Bad when it comes to sex. There is no strong divide between what is right and wrong. Then looking at the animal world reveals that nature doesn't have moral values like "incest" and "pedophilia". As Peter Gray writes in the Psychology text book "evolution is not moral, if something increases the chances of gene reproduction it will be selected for". Among humans, it's said we are part monogomous and part polygynous. Results show 2 to 10 percent of female fertilization occurs from copulation with neighbouring males and not their husband. We seem to have a front of morality, but underneath, just like other animals, we fuck like crazy. We just do it in secret.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Another interesting bit, is that the Chimpanzee males will beat a female if she refuses to have sex with them. The Bonobos on the other hand, have it reversed, if a male refuses to mount a female, the other females are likely to beat him up.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Our closest surviving relatives in the animal world, the Bonobos, and their sexual habits.

    Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food. Bonobos are the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex.[15] In scientific literature, the female-female sex is often referred to as GG rubbing or genital-genital rubbing, while male-male sex is sometimes referred to as penis fencing.[16]

    Sexual activity happens within the immediate family as well as outside it, and often involves adults and children, even infants.[17] Bonobos do not form permanent relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by gender or age, with the possible exception of sexual intercourse between mothers and their adult sons; some observers believe these pairings are taboo. When Bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, presumably decreasing tension and allowing for peaceful feeding.[18]

    Bonobo males frequently engage in various forms of male-male genital sex (frot).[19][20][21] One form has two males hang from a tree limb face-to-face while "penis fencing". Frot may also occur where two males rub their penises together while in missionary position. A special form of frot called "rump rubbing" occurs to express reconciliation between two males after a conflict, where they stand back-to-back and rub their scrotal sacs together.

    Bonobo females also engage in female-female genital sex (tribadism) to socially bond with each other, thus forming a female nucleus of Bonobo society. The bonding between females allows them to dominate Bonobo society - although male Bonobos are individually stronger, they cannot stand alone against a united group of females. Adolescent females often leave their native community to join another community. Sexual bonding with other females establishes the new females as members of the group. This migration mixes the Bonobo gene pools, providing genetic diversity.

    Bonobo reproductive rates are not any higher than that of the Common Chimpanzee. Female Bonobos carry and nurse their young for five years and can give birth every five to six years. Compared with Common Chimpanzees, Bonobo females resume the genital swelling cycle much sooner after giving birth, allowing them to rejoin the sexual activities of their society. Also, Bonobo females who are either sterile or too young to reproduce still engage in sexual activity.

    Craig Stanford, an American primatologist, has challenged the claim that Bonobos are more sexually active than Common Chimpanzees. Stanford compared existing data on Common Chimpanzees and Bonobos in the natural habitat and found that female Common Chimpanzees copulated at least as often as female Bonobos, while male chimpanzees actually copulated more than male Bonobos.[22] His comparison excluded same-sex sexual contacts, however, which are very common in Bonobos. De Waal's book on Bonobos includes interviews with field workers and relies on the studies by Takayoshi Kano, the only scientist to have worked for two decades with wild Bonobos. [23] Kano's work supports claims about the Bonobos' pronounced sexual tendencies and their relative peacefulness

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior

    If we are so closely genetically related to Bonobos, it's a wonder this kind of activity doesn't happen more with humans.

    it seems people pick the theory they believe most and put other theories on the back burner. although bonobos may be primates; i don't believe we evolved from primates. that's like saying a dog evolved from a cat. i can take similarities from both and connect them making a good argument. i believe we evolved; but as a seperate entity. cats evolved/adapted seperately from dogs and frogs and every other animal. if man evolved from a single cell; primates evolved from a different single cell. cats evolved from yet a different single cell. our DNA is all connected; but the DNA of that single cell decided what that cell would evolve into. DNA is called the building blocks; and as these different cells built their DNA; the evolutionary process produced the "animals" we have now and also the animals now extinct. human DNA from thousands of years ago is different from modern DNA. the building blocks continue to build and we continue to change.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    it seems people pick the theory they believe most and put other theories on the back burner. although bonobos may be primates; i don't believe we evolved from primates. that's like saying a dog evolved from a cat. i can take similarities from both and connect them making a good argument. i believe we evolved; but as a seperate entity. cats evolved/adapted seperately from dogs and frogs and every other animal. if man evolved from a single cell; primates evolved from a different single cell. cats evolved from yet a different single cell. our DNA is all connected; but the DNA of that single cell decided what that cell would evolve into. DNA is called the building blocks; and as these different cells built their DNA; the evolutionary process produced the "animals" we have now and also the animals now extinct. human DNA from thousands of years ago is different from modern DNA. the building blocks continue to build and we continue to change.

    So... you think we evolved totally independently of other animals?

    Then it's just coincidence that we have so many analogous traits?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Ahnimus wrote:
    For whatever reason, humans are the only species on the planet that think sex can be a bad thing.

    I never understood why so many people view nudity and sex in such a negative manner. Maybe you can shed some light on that.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    mammasan wrote:
    I never understood why so many people view nudity and sex in such a negative manner. Maybe you can shed some light on that.

    Uh, religion, maybe...

    It's a very interesting question, I wish I knew the answer, but I can only speculate.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Uh, religion, maybe...

    It's a very interesting question, I wish I knew the answer, but I can only speculate.

    I would guess that religion would be the primary culprit. I just don't get it. How can something that feels so good be wrong.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    mammasan wrote:
    I would guess that religion would be the primary culprit. I just don't get it. How can something that feels so good be wrong.

    Ha, reminds me of these lyrics from Dr. Hook's Freaker's Ball

    Blow your whistle and bang your gong
    Roll up something to take along
    It feels so good it must be wrong
    We're freakin at the freakers ball

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs8XW0GP1Qw

    Funny stuff, it must be that we are conditioned by society to reject our natural impulses, because of some idealist view that some forms of sex are immoral. It may very well be true, but who is to say.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    So... you think we evolved totally independently of other animals?

    Then it's just coincidence that we have so many analogous traits?

    and i can find many analogus traits connecting humans with buffalo as i look out my window. from oral sex to the way they care for their young. the way the herd is a "community" that watches out for the others just like humans used to do. the alpha cow is the "president" and the alpha bull is the judicial system. the bulls will fight with eachother for power and also for females. just as humans will. i can go on and on if you like. but that is the basic DNA that we all share. we share DNA markers with buffalo. we also share DNA markers with plants. are we closer to primates than any other animal? perhaps. is a golden retriever closer to a coyote than any other animal? perhaps. but a golden retriever is still a golden retriever and not a coyote.
    we evolved independently of others with common building blocks.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    and i can find many analogus traits connecting humans with buffalo as i look out my window. from oral sex to the way they care for their young. the way the herd is a "community" that watches out for the others just like humans used to do. the alpha cow is the "president" and the alpha bull is the judicial system. the bulls will fight with eachother for power and also for females. just as humans will. i can go on and on if you like. but that is the basic DNA that we all share. we share DNA markers with buffalo. we also share DNA markers with plants. are we closer to primates than any other animal? perhaps. is a golden retriever closer to a coyote than any other animal? perhaps. but a golden retriever is still a golden retriever and not a coyote.
    we evolved independently of others with common building blocks.

    Right, but geneticists claim we evolved along the same tree as Bonobos and diverged from them a short time ago. Are you suggesting this isn't true? That we never shared a common ancestry with Bonobos or mice?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Right, but geneticists claim we evolved along the same tree as Bonobos and diverged from them a short time ago. Are you suggesting this isn't true? That we never shared a common ancestry with Bonobos or mice?

    we share DNA ancestry with every living thing. life started in the oceans. first algea; from that single celled creatures; and from this ocean of DNA building blocks; different DNA attached to different single celled creatures.
    doesn't cloning prove this? you can remove primate DNA from a primate egg; add human DNA; and create a human. this does not mean we come from primates; it means human DNA replaced the primate DNA.
    so; to get a human from a primate we must first remove the primate DNA and REPLACE IT with human DNA.
    (in this case; i'm using the word primate to mean monkey. i know humans are primates.)
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    we share DNA ancestry with every living thing. life started in the oceans. first algea; from that single celled creatures; and from this ocean of DNA building blocks; different DNA attached to different single celled creatures.
    doesn't cloning prove this? you can remove primate DNA from a primate egg; add human DNA; and create a human. this does not mean we come from primates; it means human DNA replaced the primate DNA.
    so; to get a human from a primate we must first remove the primate DNA and REPLACE IT with human DNA.
    (in this case; i'm using the word primate to mean monkey. i know humans are primates.)

    I don't understand your objection to the ascent of humans. I understand what you are saying about DNA, but I don't see how separate ancestries follow from that.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I don't understand your objection to the ascent of humans. I understand what you are saying about DNA, but I don't see how separate ancestries follow from that.

    can i have a rain check on the explaination? i had my afternoon morphine an hour ago and i'd rather wait until i was thinking more clearly. i'd really like to debate this theory with you because i think it would be very interesting. at the moment; i can't remember where i first read it. when i'm feeling a bit better; i'll get my sh*t together and we can discuss this. please forgive me.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    can i have a rain check on the explaination? i had my afternoon morphine an hour ago and i'd rather wait until i was thinking more clearly. i'd really like to debate this theory with you because i think it would be very interesting. at the moment; i can't remember where i first read it. when i'm feeling a bit better; i'll get my sh*t together and we can discuss this. please forgive me.

    No problem OLS. Make sure you take that morphine in your usual environment.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • prism
    prism Posts: 2,440
    mammasan wrote:
    I would guess that religion would be the primary culprit. I just don't get it. How can something that feels so good be wrong.

    duh...because that's what the Priest always told us after he'd just come back from buggering boys in the rectory
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
  • for the record I am pro-sex.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No problem OLS. Make sure you take that morphine in your usual environment.

    thanks. i have to take it 3 times a day at the same time. it's never a good sign when they put you on morphine. surgery is the 26th so hopefully things will go well. i look forward to a good debate. i miss locking horns with you.

    i apologise to everyone for going off topic.
  • gue_barium wrote:
    Well, I don't think any of the other mammalians do. Other than humans.

    Also, it is the female bonobo that decides who gets what in that sexual (non-violent society.) It isn't control so much, from what I've read, as it is harmony. If tensions need subsiding, the lead female is a decider. Sometimes she just goes off and masturbates.

    I think you'll find most mammals do. Female hyenas have a huge one. Bigger than the male's penis, and they have to give birth through it. Seriously. I'm not making it up. Google it.
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison