Can someone please remind me the negative side of marijuana?

angelica · September 2007

"Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain’s limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that THC suppresses neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate."

People use substances and behaviours that cause harmful fallout, as a way of coping, with real effects in crippling one's own inner processes. To me this is abusing one's self, albeit sometimes unknowingly, or because one cannot comprehend what one is actually doing. (due to defense mechanisms of denial and of stunted brain processing) When such behaviours interrupt our ability to integrate our experiences, we remain unconscious of them. We stunt our own emotional issues and our experiences remain paralyzed/frozen in the brain, rather than processed. This includes denying one's self the benefit of gaining insight and understanding of one's life experiences to grow from.(based on information in John Bradshaw's book: "Bradshaw: On the Family") This prevents whole brain integration and emotional intelligence.

"Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to marijuana users inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs."

http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/marijuana.htm

"Marijuana smoke contains some of the same cancer-causing compounds as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations.Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day."

http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/drug_guide/Marijuana

decides2dream · September 2007

angelica wrote:

"Long-term regular users of marijuana may become psychologically dependent. They may have a hard time limiting their use, they may need more of the drug to get the same effect, and they may develop problems with their jobs and personal relationships. The drug can become the most important aspect of their lives."

i read a lot of 'mays'...as in, possibly....but not definitively. so yes, to me, without a definitive causal like...doesn't make it so...just may be so....for some...possibly. and again, the last sentence should also read may......b/c while it may do so, again, it may not.

angelica wrote:

"Marijuana use increases the heart rate as much as 50 percent, depending on the amount of THC. It can cause chest pain in people who have a poor blood supply to the heart - and it produces these effects more rapidly than tobacco smoke does."

"Driving experiments show that marijuana affects a wide range of skills needed for safe driving -- thinking and reflexes are slowed, making it hard for drivers to respond to sudden, unexpected events. Also, a driver's ability to "track" (stay in lane) through curves, to brake quickly, and to maintain speed and the proper distance between cars is affected. Research shows that these skills are impaired for at least 4-6 hours after smoking a single marijuana cigarette, long after the "high" is gone. If a person drinks alcohol, along with using marijuana, the risk of an accident greatly increases. Marijuana presents a definite danger on the road."

"Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years."

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

as to all the rest, i don't know what anyone else was arguing, but i never once thought smoking, anything, is necessarily physically healthy...and absolutely agre it impairs judgement. however, all of which are choices...to be made by adults....in choosing to smoke cigarettes...or to drink alcohol...both perfectly legal activities. i never suggested it was something do whenever, wherever...in fact i think i personally made it clear that one may do so responsibly.

so yes, nice link...but doesn't *prove* anything anyone here didn't know already. possibilities not withstanding...doesn't make it so for all, not even close. just like everyone who smokes cigaretters...nor those who drink alcohol...are all destined to becoming addicts. thus why all such activities should be decisions made by adults, ideally, although we know oftentimes that is not the case. for me, i made all such decisions for the first time while underage. perhaps not the wisest...and yet here i am, not addicted...and unscathed. well i do admit i was/am addicted to cigs, but i happily kicked them out of my life...again, my choice/decision.

jamtemplechains · September 2007

angelica wrote:

"Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain’s limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that THC suppresses neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate."

People use substances and behaviours that cause harmful fallout, as a way of coping, with real effects in crippling one's own inner processes. To me this is abusing one's self, albeit sometimes unknowingly, or because one cannot comprehend what one is actually doing. (due to defense mechanisms of denial and of stunted brain processing) When such behaviours interrupt our ability to integrate our experiences, we remain unconscious of them. We stunt our own emotional issues and our experiences remain paralyzed/frozen in the brain, rather than processed. This includes denying one's self the benefit of gaining insight and understanding of one's life experiences to grow from.(based on information in John Bradshaw's book: "Bradshaw: On the Family") This prevents whole brain integration and emotional intelligence.

"Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to marijuana users inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs."

http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/marijuana.htm

"Marijuana smoke contains some of the same cancer-causing compounds as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations.Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day."

http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/drug_guide/Marijuana

so you're defending the illegalization of pot by comparing its affects to other substances that are legal?
'it impairs driving.'
'it causes cancer.'
tell me what effect you think these things should have on tobacco and alcohol? surely, if marijuana should be illegal for these results, so should the others, yes?

decides2dream · September 2007

jamtemplechains wrote:

so you're defending the illegalization of pot by comparing its affects to other substances that are legal?
'it impairs driving.'
'it causes cancer.'
tell me what effect you think these things should have on tobacco and alcohol? surely, if marijuana should be illegal for these results, so should the others, yes?

thank you.

i also like the idea of adults being able to make such decisions for themselves. i agree certain things in this world should be banned...or regulated...but i DO whole-heartedly agree if substances such as tobacco and alcohol are lawful, and yes i fully believe they should be, why not mj? personally, it doesn't make sense to me.

also the medicinal properties of mj, while for a different use...cannot be denied...and i am glad that least patients who need such can use such.

again, the dutch are a CLEAR and shining example that legalization does NOT correlate a higher degree of abuse nor addiction. seems quite the contrary in reality.

angelica · September 2007

jamtemplechains wrote:

so you're defending the illegalization of pot by comparing its affects to other substances that are legal?
'it impairs driving.'
'it causes cancer.'
tell me what effect you think these things should have on tobacco and alcohol? surely, if marijuana should be illegal for these results, so should the others, yes?

I'm presenting facts on the negative effects of marijuana use.

It's apparent that many people like to minimize the value of the facts by distracting themselves with the alcohol arguments. I'm not one of them. It's obviously a big defense mechanism used ongoingly throughout this thread. It doesn't detract from the value of the facts, however.

Feel free to proceed, it's just that my focus is on the case in point: marijuana--and its harmful effects.

soulsinging · September 2007

angelica wrote:

"Long-term regular users of marijuana MAY become psychologically dependent. They may have a hard time limiting their use, they may need more of the drug to get the same effect, and they may develop problems with their jobs and personal relationships. The drug can become the most important aspect of their lives."

"Marijuana use increases the heart rate as much as 50 percent, depending on the amount of THC. It CAN cause chest pain in people who have a poor blood supply to the heart - and it produces these effects more rapidly than tobacco smoke does."

"Driving experiments show that marijuana affects a wide range of skills needed for safe driving -- thinking and reflexes are slowed, making it hard for drivers to respond to sudden, unexpected events. Also, a driver's ability to "track" (stay in lane) through curves, to brake quickly, and to maintain speed and the proper distance between cars is affected. Research shows that these skills are impaired for at least 4-6 hours after smoking a single marijuana cigarette, long after the "high" is gone. If a person drinks alcohol, along with using marijuana, the risk of an accident greatly increases. Marijuana presents a definite danger on the road."

"Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana MAY cause cancer if used for a number of years."

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

i don't know how to bold, so i capitalized the letters that are operative in all of those points. the driving i agree 100%. nobody should drive under the influence of anything.

but this still does not provide support for prohitibion. you show that marijuana can have negative effects on some people. if that is your premise... that sometimes pot does bad things, why do you draw a distinction between it and other harmful substances which are not prohibited? you show nothing that distinguishes marijuana and supports your stance that it deserves far greater sanctions than alcohol.

soulsinging · September 2007

angelica wrote:

Feel free to proceed, it's just that my focus is on the case in point: marijuana--and its harmful effects.

the true topic raised (though not well or clearly by the OP) is whether these negative effects justify the current legal status of the plant. your points do nothing to address this.

jamtemplechains · September 2007

angelica wrote:

I'm presenting facts on the negative effects of marijuana use.

It's apparent that many people like to minimize the value of the facts by distracting themselves with the alcohol arguments. I'm not one of them. It's obviously a big defense mechanism used ongoingly throughout this thread. It doesn't detract from the value of the facts, however.

Feel free to proceed, it's just that my focus is on the case in point: marijuana--and its harmful effects.

that's fine, and i'll not reference alcohol at all if it makes you feel better; but the fact of the matter stands that there are plenty of things that have negative health effects but should not simply for this reason be illegal. it only makes since that people mention these other examples because if law is to make sense and be just, how can that happen if exceptions are made and differences defined between two things that have the same negative effects and results.

angelica · September 2007

soulsinging wrote:

i don't know how to bold, so i capitalized the letters that are operative in all of those points. the driving i agree 100%. nobody should drive under the influence of anything.

but this still does not provide support for prohitibion. you show that marijuana can have negative effects on some people. if that is your premise... that sometimes pot does bad things, why do you draw a distinction between it and other harmful substances which are not prohibited? you show nothing that distinguishes marijuana and supports your stance that it deserves far greater sanctions than alcohol.

I'm not supporting prohibition. I'm supporting the many views of people who have come to subjective decisions, whereupon in good faith, they are unwilling to support and enable this particular harmful vice.

I don't at all draw distinctions between harmful vices. As I come to understand the harm of harmful vices, I no longer support them. That includes alcohol, sex addiction, all the "holisms" like work or shopaholism, etc, etc. It includes sugar addiction, caffeine addiction and computer addiction. When you judge me otherwise, you show a lack of awareness of what you speak.

soulsinging · September 2007

angelica wrote:

"Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain’s limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that THC suppresses neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate."

People use substances and behaviours that cause harmful fallout, as a way of coping, with real effects in crippling one's own inner processes. To me this is abusing one's self, albeit sometimes unknowingly, or because one cannot comprehend what one is actually doing. (due to defense mechanisms of denial and of stunted brain processing) When such behaviours interrupt our ability to integrate our experiences, we remain unconscious of them. We stunt our own emotional issues and our experiences remain paralyzed/frozen in the brain, rather than processed. This includes denying one's self the benefit of gaining insight and understanding of one's life experiences to grow from.(based on information in John Bradshaw's book: "Bradshaw: On the Family") This prevents whole brain integration and emotional intelligence.

1. further research has also shown that all such effects on the brain pass after smoking stops.

2. your whole second paragraph is far from fact. it is your personal opinion that alteration of brain activity causes stunted growth and denial. the medical data says nothing about this. furthermore, it is also your personal opinion, supported by no facts other than your own experience, that such activity is a horrible thing. progress for the sake of progress is meaningless. i can't recall the name, but there is a term for an engineering machine that uses incredibly complex processes to produce a very simple result just to show off that it can. your serenity as admirable and works well for you, but that does not mean your path is the only or best one. in this sense, you are no different from a religious fundamentalist who insists they know the only right way to live.

angelica · September 2007

soulsinging wrote:

1. further research has also shown that all such effects on the brain pass after smoking stops.

2. your whole second paragraph is far from fact. it is your personal opinion that alteration of brain activity causes stunted growth and denial. the medical data says nothing about this. furthermore, it is also your personal opinion, supported by no facts other than your own experience, that such activity is a horrible thing. progress for the sake of progress is meaningless. i can't recall the name, but there is a term for an engineering machine that uses incredibly complex processes to produce a very simple result just to show off that it can. your serenity as admirable and works well for you, but that does not mean your path is the only or best one. in this sense, you are no different from a religious fundamentalist who insists they know the only right way to live.

The second paragraph is based on the widely varying psychology cited in John Bradshaw's book that I referenced (he cites many branches of psychology and experts as well). He specifically addresses the paralysis that cripples the 'self' He explains HOW it cripples the self. He specifically shows what happens when the brain is unable to "integrate sensory experiences with emotions and motivations." (as is mentioned in the harmful marijuana facts). Which is why I tied the John Bradshaw info in with that first paragraph. He explains when our information processing is interrupted due to maladaptive behaviours, and what that looks like on the subjective, psychological level in a human being's life. How it manifests as insidious dysfunction. Conversely, he and the other codependency folks talk about how healing and healthy mechanisms can come into play.

Again your unrealistic conflicts with your own imagination is evident when you interpret my presenting information as presenting my way as the "only way to live". You're obviously going on ignorance here--or you'd have noticed that I've already said this in this very thread. Of course when you are focused on undermining me, you're not going to focus on understanding:

angelica wrote:

I fully support everyone making their own choices and gauging where they are for themselves at each step of their own journeys. Only we can judge for ourselves. And only we are accountable for our own actions.

Or

Never once at any time were my choices good or bad except in terms of how they affected me and others. No matter how "sick" or dysfunctional I have been, the most important thing was that I was able to be centered and listen to the feedback in my own life and learn for myself. That's what it's all about. And no matter what I've done, or what kinds of consequences I've gotten for my actions, the most important key was being able to listen to my own self nonjudgmentally. And to accept each and every aspect of myself, knowing I'm not perfect (which is still the case) and to trust my process, knowing it's about progress and not perfection. I support the same for others.

angelica · September 2007

"The codependency spawned by monarchial patriarchy was once a way of life--a way of ensuring security and survival. In the new world of deep democracy, with its emphasis on holistic thinking, individuality, and personal power, what was once a normal adaptation for survival has become a dis-ease.

Codependency can be understood as a characteristic of an adult who is contaminated by childish dependency needs. The reason almost everyone identifies with many characteristics of codependency is that the monarchial patriarchal rules...created an environment wherein children could not get their dependency needs met.

When children are nurtured properly, their developmental dependency needs are, on some level, met. This is never achieved perfectly, but certainly in a manner that allows them to grow into adulthood with a certain degree of autonomy. When these dependency needs are not met, children become adults with a child's "neediness"....

A co-dependent person is an adult with mild to severe developmental deficits. These developmental deficits are the reason adult children experience spontaneous age regressions. (ed: acting out childish behaviour in varying manners) These regressions take place primarily in significant adult relationships."

~John Bradshaw, "Bradshaw: On the Family"

These developmental deficits can also be healed, by choosing to give up the substance or behavioural abuses that hold the dysfunction in place. By doing so we create a vacuum that creates the development of new patterns, which if we choose so, can be adult and healthy in terms of managing.

soulsinging · September 2007

angelica wrote:

"The codependency spawned by monarchial patriarchy was once a way of life--a way of ensuring security and survival. In the new world of deep democracy, with its emphasis on holistic thinking, individuality, and personal power, what was once a normal adaptation for survival has become a dis-ease.

Codependency can be understood as a characteristic of an adult who is contaminated by childish dependency needs. The reason almost everyone identifies with many characteristics of codependency is that the monarchial patriarchal rules...created an environment wherein children could not get their dependency needs met.

When children are nurtured properly, their developmental dependency needs are, on some level, met. This is never achieved perfectly, but certainly in a manner that allows them to grow into adulthood with a certain degree of autonomy. When these dependency needs are not met, children become adults with a child's "neediness"....

A co-dependent person is an adult with mild to severe developmental deficits. These developmental deficits are the reason adult children experience spontaneous age regressions. (ed: acting out childish behaviour in varying manners) These regressions take place primarily in significant adult relationships."

~John Bradshaw, "Bradshaw: On the Family"

These developmental deficits can also be healed, by choosing to give up the substance or behavioural abuses that hold the dysfunction in place. By doing so we create a vacuum that creates the development of new patterns, which if we choose so, can be adult and healthy in terms of managing.

this is ridiculous. you're holding humans to a standard of flawless behavior that is impossible and always will be. this is life and a real world, where bad shit happens and people deal with it however they can. you keep mentioning progress, but talking only about perfection. and you still have not shown any reason why marijuana is such a distinct impediment to such progress that it deserves to be treated differently from other impediments to progress that are not so heavily regulated.

am i right in assuming bradshaw is the man with the 98% of people are fucked up statistic? sounds to me like drumming up business... if we convince ourselves we all have emotional problems, we're all going to have to buy a lot of therapy. me, i like to think humans are behaving pretty much as we always have and there is no 2% elite (as you seem to so enjoy lording over us) who have no problems, no dysfunction, and are flawless models of advanced evolutionary human behavior. the idea is absurd, and utterly dependent on the lense one is looking through when defining dysfunction.

angelica · September 2007

soulsinging wrote:

this is ridiculous. you're holding humans to a standard of flawless behavior that is impossible and always will be.

Yeah, the crazy irony is that it's LIFE, iself, that holds people to this standard. I'm just the messenger. We choose non-adaptive or maladaptive behaviour, we get the consequences. We paralyze ourselves. Hey, it can even be fun at times. For me, the deep, wrenching pain was more than I could bear--I branched off into insanity. On the flipside though, I was also able to systematically heal it, by knowing it was possible and by following evolution (progress).

this is life and a real world, where bad shit happens and people deal with it however they can.

People choose given the variables in their lives and then they get the consequences of their actions. It it works, great. The problem is with these catch-22 situations. People paralyze their own thoughts and awareness. Then they therefore can't recognize their thoughts are paralyzed because their thoughts are paralyzed. So it gets tricky. Life evolves, though, and provides ways around that if we can stay even remotely awake to watch for ways to grow and learn. If we numb ourselves into the usual accepted and perpetuated unconsciousness, we choose to stay unconscious, acting out our dramas and our scripts. It's fair play. I long ago accepted that many people will continue to stay unconscious and to live the consequences of maladaption. It's just the way it is. I don't make the rules. I do attempt to work with them and evolution, however, and influence people.

you keep mentioning progress, but talking only about perfection. and you still have not shown any reason why marijuana is such a distinct impediment to such progress that it deserves to be treated differently from other impediments to progress that are not so heavily regulated.

I'm talking about human potential. You are the one who has carved it into perfection or degradation. Good/bad. Right, or worthy of degradation. Most people cannot speak "realism". It's part of the same problem--crippled processes. You can get out of the church, but the only way that false dualism is resolved is by accepting that it resides deep inside ourselves. Only then can we work it out--by resolving it the distortions we have continued to perpetuate in imbalance.

am i right in assuming bradshaw is the man with the 98% of people are fucked up statistic? sounds to me like drumming up business... if we convince ourselves we all have emotional problems, we're all going to have to buy a lot of therapy. me, i like to think humans are behaving pretty much as we always have and there is no 2% elite (as you seem to so enjoy lording over us) who have no problems, no dysfunction, and are flawless models of advanced evolutionary human behavior. the idea is absurd, and utterly dependent on the lense one is looking through when defining dysfunction.

I've answered the 98% thing to you numerous times in the past, but obviously you were unwilling or unable to listen or hear.

ajedigecko · September 2007

Derrick wrote:

Easily the best answer so far.

the one response that has always "baffled" me is.....

i can not believe i lost my job because i tested positive, i was not hurting anyone.

Derrick · September 2007

Well, every job is different and some jobs have certain requirements. Like, some jobs state you cannot be under the influence of alcohol at work...other jobs are such that your manager buys your team a round at lunch on Fridays...etc.

The requirements don't even have to be drug-related. My company prohibits me from making comments on public forums regarding my company. Heck, I probably just violated for saying we have that policy....

ajedigecko · September 2007

Derrick wrote:

Well, every job is different and some jobs have certain requirements. Like, some jobs state you cannot be under the influence of alcohol at work...other jobs are such that your manager buys your team a round at lunch on Fridays...etc.

The requirements don't even have to be drug-related. My company prohibits me from making comments on public forums regarding my company. Heck, I probably just violated for saying we have that policy....

point well taken, with regards to every job being different.

the conflict is that most jobs worth "keeping" do inforce their policies.

from my experience, the people who are dumbfounded for losing their job for testing positive realize that this will follow them.

angelica · September 2007

Long-Term Affects of Marijuana:

Cellular Damage: Marijuana and its potent chemical THC cause physical changes in the user's body at the cellular level. These cell abnormalities alter normal cell division and affect the genetic makeup of new cells. They lower cell immunity, increasing the possibility of viral infections among users.

Nervous System Effects: THC causes an enlargement of the areas between nerve cells, resulting in poor transmission of nerve impulses between these cells.

Respiratory Damage: Marijuana is harmful to the entire respiratory system, from the sinus cavities to the air sacs within the lungs. Marijuana smoke is even more harmful than tobacco smoke, and users have a much higher incidence of respiratory disease than nonusers.

Other respiratory problems associated with marijuana use include:

Cardiovascular Effects: Smoking one marijuana cigarette has the immediate effect of increasing heart rate and blood pressure as much as 50 percent. Marijuana increases the amount of toxic carbon monoxide in the blood, thereby reducing the amount of oxygen reaching the heart. Increased blood pressure and changes in the blood vessels are reflected by the typical red or bloodshot eyes of the marijuana user. Chest pains have been attributed to marijuana use. People who suffer from angina, high blood pressure, diabetes, or other heart problems are at even greater risk smoking marijuana.

Damage to Reproductive Systems: Marijuana can have far-reaching effects on the reproductive systems of both men and women.

While marijuana was long-considered not to be physically addictive, most scientists now believe that the hallmarks of physical addiction, including tolerance and withdrawal may occur with long-term marijuana use. Certainly, regular users can develop a psychological dependence no different from other addictions. Those who are psychologically dependent can have difficulty limiting their use of the drug and can experience unpleasant side effects such as anxiety, insomnia and irritability when denied access to marijuana.
http://www.lpac.ca/English/Main/Drugmanual_chapter4.aspx

decides2dream · September 2007

angelica wrote:

I'm presenting facts on the negative effects of marijuana use.

It's apparent that many people like to minimize the value of the facts by distracting themselves with the alcohol arguments. I'm not one of them. It's obviously a big defense mechanism used ongoingly throughout this thread. It doesn't detract from the value of the facts, however.

Feel free to proceed, it's just that my focus is on the case in point: marijuana--and its harmful effects.

that's quite the assumption on your pat.

i will not pretend to speak for others who have posted, but i know why *I* brought up alcohol and tobacco in my posts. i was using said substances as examples that are completely LEGAL to use. seems a fair point of comparison to make. even you in some of your quoted sources, have direct links comparing tobacco and mj for example...so even these trusted sources of yours see fit to compare and contrast.

it does seem however, read other posts...we are talking of 2 different things. it seems to me, and this is ony my impression...that you are not? arguing a for/against stance for the legalization of mj? merely discussion the possible negative ramifications of use? is that it?

as i've said here a couple times already, i fully agre with the possibility of abuse, and negative consequences. i then compared such to LEGAL substances in use/approved for use...today...such as cigarettes and alcohol b/c i DO believe it is an excellent compariosn to make. for me, it is ALL about LEGALIZATION...and an adult's right to choose what substances he/she sees fit to use for their own highly personal reasons. if one is allowed the legal choice to do so with alcohol and cigareetes..i firmly believe the same right should be afforded for mj use b/c i see them as very similar substances.

in regards to all the 'other stuff'.....possibilities for self-abuse, trying to second-guess why someone wants to use said substances...honestly, none of my business.

btw - it ain't all black and white. all this 'maladaptive practices' etc...well it should be ANYone's choice how they live their life. what one sees as 'maladaptive' another sees as how they want to be. personally, i think a LOT of what is said here, while not entirely dismissing it...i also say, it is not 100% true, or at the very least...not 100% agreed upon nor even considered by all in the scientific/pshcological/medical community. not saying one cannot value perspectives outside of said fields....but it also holds true that SOME of us look to said fields, and said educated experts in such fields.....and not these other outside sources. bottomline..we ALL can find varying sources to support our beliefs. some i would argue to hold more 'truth' than others, but i will simply say...one should not hold their personal sources/beliefs as the ONLY ones for all. and yes..i've read about this 98% numerous times...and seen the sources of said information a few times as well...and yet, i still dismiss it. so no, i don't see that or a lot presented here as 'fact'....and honestly, for me, it takes the idea of legalization a bit too far.

but hey, if that is the course this discussion is taking, c'est la vie. no more interest. i have no desire to discuss ad nauseum, and in circles...about 'human potential' etc, etc. i wantedreal reasons for/against legalization....not hypothesis and possibilities, not living to potential, etc, etc. THAT is a personal choice...not something that should be legislated.

haha.

btw - john bradshaw is not the end-all be-all of sources, especially for me. great you hold his work and opinion to such high esteem...many of us do not. i look to more educated scientists, and i think this has come up in the past as well. not to say one who is NOT a scientist cannot come up with knowledgeable/informed hypothesis, disseminate information, etc....but yes, i do look towards those who have the terminal degrees in their fields...the true scientists....for what i would consider the truly educated, expert opinions.

soulsinging · September 2007

angelica wrote:

Yeah, the crazy irony is that it's LIFE, iself, that holds people to this standard. I'm just the messenger. We choose non-adaptive or maladaptive behaviour, we get the consequences. We paralyze ourselves. Hey, it can even be fun at times. For me, the deep, wrenching pain was more than I could bear--I branched off into insanity. On the flipside though, I was also able to systematically heal it, by knowing it was possible and by following evolution (progress).

People choose given the variables in their lives and then they get the consequences of their actions. It it works, great. The problem is with these catch-22 situations. People paralyze their own thoughts and awareness. Then they therefore can't recognize their thoughts are paralyzed because their thoughts are paralyzed. So it gets tricky. Life evolves, though, and provides ways around that if we can stay even remotely awake to watch for ways to grow and learn. If we numb ourselves into the usual accepted and perpetuated unconsciousness, we choose to stay unconscious, acting out our dramas and our scripts. It's fair play. I long ago accepted that many people will continue to stay unconscious and to live the consequences of maladaption. It's just the way it is. I don't make the rules. I do attempt to work with them and evolution, however, and influence people.

I'm talking about human potential. You are the one who has carved it into perfection or degradation. Good/bad. Right, or worthy of degradation. Most people cannot speak "realism". It's part of the same problem--crippled processes. You can get out of the church, but the only way that false dualism is resolved is by accepting that it resides deep inside ourselves. Only then can we work it out--by resolving it the distortions we have continued to perpetuate in imbalance.

I've answered the 98% thing to you numerous times in the past, but obviously you were unwilling or unable to listen or hear.

how do you know you're not paralyzed and just don't know it now? and who made you the judge of what behaviors paralyze people and what behaviors do not? and who said paralyzing our emotions ipso facto prevents us from living in a very productive manner. i see no evidence that a behavior that paralyzes emotions is by default maladaptive. and your measure of human potential is utterly subjective... some abstract and shadowy concept of internal peace (or condescending smugness in your case). by many other barometers, those who behave in ways you consider maladaptive still thrive in society. you're still judging based on your own preconceived ideas and values and trying to pass them off as absolute fact or truth.

and you still have not offered one shred of evidence as to why marijuana should be held to a much more restrictive social stigma than other substances that play into maladaptive behaviors.

Can someone please remind me the negative side of marijuana?

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