Why voting third party is a waste

24

Comments

  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Here's a question for those of you that think voting merely on "electability" is important.

    If you think a candidates electability is very important to your vote, aren't you simply basis your decision on what others find popular or ok? Ie, if the dems or reps run candidate x, and the majority of that particular party decide they should run for presidency, therefore that's your potential candidate, aren't you just making your decision on what others like or want compared to your own beliefs or thoughts?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Here's a question for those of you that think voting merely on "electability" is important.

    If you think a candidates electability is very important to your vote, aren't you simply basis your decision on what others find popular or ok? Ie, if the dems or reps run candidate x, and the majority of that particular party decide they should run for presidency, therefore that's your potential candidate, aren't you just making your decision on what others like or want compared to your own beliefs or thoughts?

    Excellent point. I am more concerned with a principled vote rather than worrying about electability. I won't compromise my standards just to try to pick a winner.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • pateljam
    pateljam Posts: 340
    can't bring myself to vote for them...

    So i will vote third party...

    The lesser of two evils is still evil

    Why should I support a corupt two party system
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  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Here's a question for those of you that think voting merely on "electability" is important.

    If you think a candidates electability is very important to your vote, aren't you simply basis your decision on what others find popular or ok? Ie, if the dems or reps run candidate x, and the majority of that particular party decide they should run for presidency, therefore that's your potential candidate, aren't you just making your decision on what others like or want compared to your own beliefs or thoughts?
    We are left with what they give us, that's true. and-I used to be all about Nader, I no democrat to be sure...but its come down to this for me.

    Policy in Washington affects the world. that's it. small changes have meaningful affect. and we know McCain or Obama is going to win...so I am going to do my best to get who I think is the better candidate in, knowing that they can impact the lives of so many around the world.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Everyone has their own reasons or basis for why they vote for who they do. I personally don't care that much about domestic policy as much as I care about the economic policies and foreign policies. People in our nation can and have the right to work for or help facilitate change to domestic policies. We live in a spoiled society where people want everything for nothing and don't want to be bothered with working towards things. So in my opinion, I really don't care if people are too lazy, uncaring or complacent to get what they want or are due. The responsibility is on them - not others. Many people like to believe there's huge difference between the Dems and Reps when it comes to Foreign policy but in practice it's not much. All the Dems get googly eyed from thoughts of the Clinton years but ignore all the poor things he did while in office: ignoring Rwanda, NAFTA, the WTO, constant bombing of Iraq as well as the blockade which led to hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, ignoring Bin Laden and al Queda (even after the embassy bombings and first WTC attack), amongst many others. But the economy was doing ok, so therefore it was a wonderful period to revel in? Bunch of hypocrites the Dems are! Vote for Obama, we’ll have a new name and face, but the results will remain the same.

    Lastly, in my opinion, continuing poor policy and continually turn to dry wells for water will always lead to failures - not change and certainly not anything positive for the future. Every 4-8 yrs we hear the calls "this election is too important", but before you know it, nothing changes and you remain in the same poor place. In order to stop it, you must break the cycle and look elsewhere.... continuing it only furthers its existence, acceptence and prosperity.
    Commy wrote:
    much of the world is run out of Washington. its petty to be concerned about domestic issues when policy affects so many around the world.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    And if people see voting for people that bring up the issues they want talked about as a waste... what does that say to the 2 major parties?
    I believe Nader is important...but that voting for him is not.
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    its not a waste to vote for a third pary or Obama IMO. as long as McCain loses and Bush is gone, it will be an improvement..
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Everyone has their own reasons or basis for why they vote for who they do. I personally don't care that much about domestic policy as much as I care about the economic policies and foreign policies. People in our nation can and have the right to work for or help facilitate change to domestic policies. We live in a spoiled society where people want everything for nothing and don't want to be bothered with working towards things. So in my opinion, I really don't care if people are too lazy, uncaring or complacent to get what they want or are due. The responsibility is on them - not others. Many people like to believe there's huge difference between the Dems and Reps when it comes to Foreign policy but in practice it's not much. All the Dems get googly eyed from thoughts of the Clinton years but ignore all the poor things he did while in office: ignoring Rwanda, NAFTA, the WTO, constant bombing of Iraq as well as the blockade which led to hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, ignoring Bin Laden and al Queda (even after the embassy bombings and first WTC attack), amongst many others. But the economy was doing ok, so therefore it was a wonderful period to revel in? Bunch of hypocrites the Dems are! Vote for Obama, we’ll have a new name and face, but the results will remain the same.
    ...the bombing of a pharmecuetical company in Sudan, resulting in the deaths of 30,000...supporting the UN sanctions on Iraq, killing over 1 million...

    This is a terrible situation to be in for sure...and maybe I shouldn't call third party votes a waste...they aren't a waste...but I feel there is too much at stake to be doing so.

    Clinton went with sanctions regarding Iraq-around 1 million deaths were attributed to those sanctions, including around 200,000 children under the age of 5-through starvation, disease..terrible, in 10 years.

    Bush invaded Iraq outright...killing millions (conservative estimates are at 1.3 million), in just a few years.

    2 very terrible policies for the people of Iraq, but 2 very different policies.
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Commy wrote:
    I believe Nader is important...but that voting for him is not.
    And that attitude, on a national level, is why you're voting for the lesser of two evils, rather than... y'know... something good.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Also, if everyone actually voted for candidates they liked because of policy compared to simply electability, 3rd parties would be relevent and have results. The same reason why people mock or ignore them (they can't win), is also the main cause of why they don't last or have the impact they should have. It's a self-fullfilling notion.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Well perhaps this is what occurs when you have the lessor of two evils... two poor results at different methods - but both terrible in their own right.

    Commy wrote:
    ...the bombing of a pharmecuetical company in Sudan, resulting in the deaths of 30,000...supporting the UN sanctions on Iraq, killing over 1 million...

    This is a terrible situation to be in for sure...and maybe I shouldn't call third party votes a waste...they aren't a waste...but I feel there is too much at stake to be doing so.

    Clinton went with sanctions regarding Iraq-around 1 million deaths were attributed to those sanctions, including around 200,000 children under the age of 5-through starvation, disease..terrible, in 10 years.

    Bush invaded Iraq outright...killing millions (conservative estimates are at 1.3 million), in just a few years.

    2 very terrible policies for the people of Iraq, but 2 very different policies.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    And that attitude, on a national level, is why you're voting for the lesser of two evils, rather than... y'know... something good.
    the system is set...we're never gonna change it with a ballot. but we can affect policy, to some degree. our spectator democracy isn't completely useless.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    Commy wrote:
    I used to champion third parties...then I realized I wasted 2 votes on Nader. Obama or McCain will win this election.

    .....And I'm STILL voting for Nader.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Commy wrote:
    the system is set...we're never gonna change it with a ballot. but we can affect policy, to some degree. our spectator democracy isn't completely useless.
    I just got a mental image of Abook's head exploding if she ever saw this thread. :p
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    Commy wrote:
    maybe not. as much as I would like to see Nader as president, I just don't see that happening...he doesn't expect that to happen. I believe his motivation for running is to bring up issues that would otherwise be left out of the campaigns.

    One of many good reasons to vote for him. I'm more bothered by folks who don't vote at all.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    I just got a mental image of Abook's head exploding if she ever saw this thread. :p
    :D


    she would have killed me.

    the more I think about this the more I don't agree with the thread title. I think I was trying to convince myself since I already voted for Obama and am already regretting that vote.
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    I just got a mental image of Abook's head exploding if she ever saw this thread. :p
    what happened to her? it was like arguing with a brick wall with her, but still...
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    MrSmith wrote:
    what happened to her? it was like arguing with a brick wall with her, but still...
    I don't know for sure, but I think she's without a PC these days, for the most part at least. But Commy's right - she'd have all of the "lesser of two evils" folks' heads on spikes at this point. :)
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    Commy wrote:
    :D


    she would have killed me.

    the more I think about this the more I don't agree with the thread title. I think I was trying to convince myself since I already voted for Obama and am already regretting that vote.

    Abooks is a female?

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    g under p wrote:
    Abooks is a female?

    Peace
    yeah she posted a pic a while ago...like 2 years while ago.

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