Why voting third party is a waste

Commy

The US has more influence in the world than any other country in the world.

Small changes in policy can affect billions.

In the case of the presidential election, the lesser of 2 evils translates into less evil- throughout the world. lives are literally at stake here...

DriftingByTheStorm

Right.
No Change is CHANGE.

Down is Up.

Wrong is Right.

Vote Obama!

Commy

we can be sure Obama won't be Bush...that is very significant for a lot of people around the world.

Rhinocerous Surprise

For about a six month-long grace period, maybe. Then everyone realises it's Washington business as usual, just with a different face attached.

DriftingByTheStorm

Commy wrote:

we can be sure Obama won't be Bush...that is very significant for a lot of people around the world.

Obama scares me more than Bush,
because people seem to trust him.

His approval rating will probably be high,
which means the damage he can do will be equally great.

People are about to meet the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing.

I don't think most people here have ANY idea just how long the real assholes of this world have been waiting to get a guy like Obama in to office.

norm

let's see....

1. exercise my right to vote who i think is most qualified to be potus - check

2. mail my absentee ballot 2 days ago with bob barr checked for potus - check

3. ponder when people will stop whining about 3rd parties and instead use their voices to champion different viewpoints - continuing.....

Commy

cutback wrote:

let's see....

1. exercise my right to vote who i think is most qualified to be potus - check

2. mail my absentee ballot 2 days ago with bob barr checked for potus - check

3. ponder when people will stop whining about 3rd parties and instead use their voices to champion different viewpoints - continuing.....

I used to champion third parties...then I realized I wasted 2 votes on Nader. Obama or McCain will win this election.

Rhinocerous Surprise

Commy wrote:

I used to champion third parties...then I realized I wasted 2 votes on Nader. Obama or McCain will win this election.

If Nader represented your views back then, were the votes really a waste?

PJ_Saluki

The only whining I usually hear is from people who vote for third-party candidates. I voted Green for state legislature and the US House of Reps. I voted Green for governor. I voted Obama for president. I don't feel at all bad about any of my choices. It will be a long process to get to the point when third-party candidates are viable for the presidency. It starts small. Become informed and vote your conscience and/or your pocketbook. That's all you can ask of citizens in a democracy.

norm

Commy wrote:

I used to champion third parties...then I realized I wasted 2 votes on Nader. Obama or McCain will win this election.

so you just give up?


look i understand what you're saying but until more people stop voting for the less of 2 piles of shit we're still gonna get a pile of shit running the country....we need to institute instant runoff voting....no vote is wasted

dontloseyourheat

You realize that in most states, your vote doesn't really matter. Other than for a few swing states, most states are already decided.

So unless you live in a swing state, you can feel free to vote for your conscience without having to worry about your vote helping out McCain.

Vedderlution_Baby

Although I won't be voting third party this election, I respect the people that do.

unsung

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

If Nader represented your views back then, were the votes really a waste?

Exactly.

I can't stand the thought of voting for McCain or Obama. Both support one of my biggest gripes.

Rhinocerous Surprise

If you vote for Obama and he loses, is that a wasted vote?

FiveB247x

The only "wasted vote" is someone who doesn't vote at all.

You may feel strongly about your political views, but have no right to tell others who they should vote for simply because you don't like it or more importantly because it could effect the outcome of your candidate. Candidates and party's are responsible for gaining voters. If they can't do that, it is their fault, not the voter for looking at another candidate. No candidate or party is "due" anyones vote and to say otherwise is merely grand-standing for your own political parties interests by scapegoating other voters who went in a different direction.

Here's a newsflash: Half of the voting population doesn't vote - try and get them to vote for you. How's that for a start rather than pointing fingers at people who do actually vote?

norm

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Although I won't be voting third party this election, I respect the people that do.

and i respect anyone who will vote for obama or mccain if they truly believe they are the best candidate that represents their views....

FiveB247x

Or better yet, is voting Dem is a Red state a "wasted vote" or vice versa? This whole line of thinking is merely bs and is rather petty and ignorant.

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

If you vote for Obama and he loses, is that a wasted vote?

Rhinocerous Surprise

FiveB247x wrote:

Or better yet, is voting Dem is a Red state a "wasted vote" or vice versa? This whole line of thinking is merely bs and is rather petty and ignorant.

It's choosing presidents like lottery numbers, as far as I can tell.

"Did I get it right this time?!?"

Commy

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

If Nader represented your views back then, were the votes really a waste?

maybe not. as much as I would like to see Nader as president, I just don't see that happening...he doesn't expect that to happen. I believe his motivation for running is to bring up issues that would otherwise be left out of the campaigns.

Rhinocerous Surprise

Commy wrote:

maybe not. as much as I would like to see Nader as president, I just don't see that happening...he doesn't expect that to happen. I believe his motivation for running is to bring up issues that would otherwise be left out of the campaigns.

And if people see voting for people that bring up the issues they want talked about as a waste... what does that say to the 2 major parties?

Commy

FiveB247x wrote:

Or better yet, is voting Dem is a Red state a "wasted vote" or vice versa? This whole line of thinking is merely bs and is rather petty and ignorant.

much of the world is run out of Washington. its petty to be concerned about domestic issues when policy affects so many around the world.

FiveB247x

Here's a question for those of you that think voting merely on "electability" is important.

If you think a candidates electability is very important to your vote, aren't you simply basis your decision on what others find popular or ok? Ie, if the dems or reps run candidate x, and the majority of that particular party decide they should run for presidency, therefore that's your potential candidate, aren't you just making your decision on what others like or want compared to your own beliefs or thoughts?

jeffbr

FiveB247x wrote:

Here's a question for those of you that think voting merely on "electability" is important.

If you think a candidates electability is very important to your vote, aren't you simply basis your decision on what others find popular or ok? Ie, if the dems or reps run candidate x, and the majority of that particular party decide they should run for presidency, therefore that's your potential candidate, aren't you just making your decision on what others like or want compared to your own beliefs or thoughts?

Excellent point. I am more concerned with a principled vote rather than worrying about electability. I won't compromise my standards just to try to pick a winner.

pateljam

can't bring myself to vote for them...

So i will vote third party...

The lesser of two evils is still evil

Why should I support a corupt two party system

Commy

FiveB247x wrote:

Here's a question for those of you that think voting merely on "electability" is important.

If you think a candidates electability is very important to your vote, aren't you simply basis your decision on what others find popular or ok? Ie, if the dems or reps run candidate x, and the majority of that particular party decide they should run for presidency, therefore that's your potential candidate, aren't you just making your decision on what others like or want compared to your own beliefs or thoughts?

We are left with what they give us, that's true. and-I used to be all about Nader, I no democrat to be sure...but its come down to this for me.

Policy in Washington affects the world. that's it. small changes have meaningful affect. and we know McCain or Obama is going to win...so I am going to do my best to get who I think is the better candidate in, knowing that they can impact the lives of so many around the world.

FiveB247x

Everyone has their own reasons or basis for why they vote for who they do. I personally don't care that much about domestic policy as much as I care about the economic policies and foreign policies. People in our nation can and have the right to work for or help facilitate change to domestic policies. We live in a spoiled society where people want everything for nothing and don't want to be bothered with working towards things. So in my opinion, I really don't care if people are too lazy, uncaring or complacent to get what they want or are due. The responsibility is on them - not others. Many people like to believe there's huge difference between the Dems and Reps when it comes to Foreign policy but in practice it's not much. All the Dems get googly eyed from thoughts of the Clinton years but ignore all the poor things he did while in office: ignoring Rwanda, NAFTA, the WTO, constant bombing of Iraq as well as the blockade which led to hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, ignoring Bin Laden and al Queda (even after the embassy bombings and first WTC attack), amongst many others. But the economy was doing ok, so therefore it was a wonderful period to revel in? Bunch of hypocrites the Dems are! Vote for Obama, we’ll have a new name and face, but the results will remain the same.

Lastly, in my opinion, continuing poor policy and continually turn to dry wells for water will always lead to failures - not change and certainly not anything positive for the future. Every 4-8 yrs we hear the calls "this election is too important", but before you know it, nothing changes and you remain in the same poor place. In order to stop it, you must break the cycle and look elsewhere.... continuing it only furthers its existence, acceptence and prosperity.

Commy wrote:

much of the world is run out of Washington. its petty to be concerned about domestic issues when policy affects so many around the world.

Commy

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

And if people see voting for people that bring up the issues they want talked about as a waste... what does that say to the 2 major parties?

I believe Nader is important...but that voting for him is not.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

its not a waste to vote for a third pary or Obama IMO. as long as McCain loses and Bush is gone, it will be an improvement..

Commy

FiveB247x wrote:

Everyone has their own reasons or basis for why they vote for who they do. I personally don't care that much about domestic policy as much as I care about the economic policies and foreign policies. People in our nation can and have the right to work for or help facilitate change to domestic policies. We live in a spoiled society where people want everything for nothing and don't want to be bothered with working towards things. So in my opinion, I really don't care if people are too lazy, uncaring or complacent to get what they want or are due. The responsibility is on them - not others. Many people like to believe there's huge difference between the Dems and Reps when it comes to Foreign policy but in practice it's not much. All the Dems get googly eyed from thoughts of the Clinton years but ignore all the poor things he did while in office: ignoring Rwanda, NAFTA, the WTO, constant bombing of Iraq as well as the blockade which led to hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, ignoring Bin Laden and al Queda (even after the embassy bombings and first WTC attack), amongst many others. But the economy was doing ok, so therefore it was a wonderful period to revel in? Bunch of hypocrites the Dems are! Vote for Obama, we’ll have a new name and face, but the results will remain the same.

...the bombing of a pharmecuetical company in Sudan, resulting in the deaths of 30,000...supporting the UN sanctions on Iraq, killing over 1 million...

This is a terrible situation to be in for sure...and maybe I shouldn't call third party votes a waste...they aren't a waste...but I feel there is too much at stake to be doing so.

Clinton went with sanctions regarding Iraq-around 1 million deaths were attributed to those sanctions, including around 200,000 children under the age of 5-through starvation, disease..terrible, in 10 years.

Bush invaded Iraq outright...killing millions (conservative estimates are at 1.3 million), in just a few years.

2 very terrible policies for the people of Iraq, but 2 very different policies.

FiveB247x

Also, if everyone actually voted for candidates they liked because of policy compared to simply electability, 3rd parties would be relevent and have results. The same reason why people mock or ignore them (they can't win), is also the main cause of why they don't last or have the impact they should have. It's a self-fullfilling notion.

Rhinocerous Surprise

Commy wrote:

I believe Nader is important...but that voting for him is not.

And that attitude, on a national level, is why you're voting for the lesser of two evils, rather than... y'know... something good.