Woman dies in ER lobby as 911 refuses to help

Indifference · June 2007

cornnifer wrote:

i would certainly hope so, but not so sure. The man refers to the woman as his wife, but the text of the article refers to him as a "boyfriend". i'm not a lawyer so i don't know the legal reprecussions of this.

SOMEONE should get paid. Thats for sure.

How much? - how many millions? - and you wonder why health care is so expensive in this country......

baraka · June 2007

Indifference wrote:

How much? - how many millions? - and you wonder why health care is so expensive in this country......

Although I think the individual mentioned in this thread probably has a case, you are not too far off. There are many problems with US health care and this is one of them.

It would be easy to blame lawyers. And fun. So let's! The cost of the malpractice insurance and law suits is only a nickel on the health care buck. But it has led to a defensive style/CYA style of practice that eats bucks like nobody's business. Take your average panic attack. 32yo female in good health presents to an ER complaining of tachycardia, shortness of breath and weird tingling sensations in her hands. No prior cardiac history. Rather than an EKG and a minor tranquilizer, good chance she will end up in a semi-intensive cardiac unit under telemetry. No one seriously believes this is a life threatening condition, EKG is normal and 30 minutes after getting some Valium-like drug, looks fine, feels fine, and is ready to roll. In the mind of the average US physician, there is every reason to believe the case is closed, but then the nagging doubt problem rears it's ugly head. There's a 1/100000 chance that this might be a zebra, and not a horse. Safe thing to do, observe overnight, get a panel of cardiac enzymes, whatever. So this intervention which might have cost a couple hundred now is 2K or more. The above is a real life example.

This is the so called standard of care issue, if you offer less than what other covering docs in the community would do as prudent and reasonable practitioners, you have nothing to gain except the satisfaction of having saved Mrs Jones 1800 bucks, and everything to lose even if its 1/100000. To practice sanely is not for the faint of heart.

Indifference · June 2007

baraka wrote:

Although I think the individual mentioned in this thread probably has a case, you are not too far off. There are many problems with US health care and this is one of them.

It would be easy to blame lawyers. And fun. So let's! The cost of the malpractice insurance and law suits is only a nickel on the health care buck. But it has led to a defensive style/CYA style of practice that eats bucks like nobody's business. Take your average panic attack. 32yo female in good health presents to an ER complaining of tachycardia, shortness of breath and weird tingling sensations in her hands. No prior cardiac history. Rather than an EKG and a minor tranquilizer, good chance she will end up in a semi-intensive cardiac unit under telemetry. No one seriously believes this is a life threatening condition, EKG is normal and 30 minutes after getting some Valium-like drug, looks fine, feels fine, and is ready to roll. In the mind of the average US physician, there is every reason to believe the case is closed, but then the nagging doubt problem rears it's ugly head. There's a 1/100000 chance that this might be a zebra, and not a horse. Safe thing to do, observe overnight, get a panel of cardiac enzymes, whatever. So this intervention which might have cost a couple hundred now is 2K or more. The above is a real life example.

This is the so called standard of care issue, if you offer less than what other covering docs in the community would do as prudent and reasonable practitioners, you have nothing to gain except the satisfaction of having saved Mrs Jones 1800 bucks, and everything to lose even if its 1/100000. To practice sanely is not for the faint of heart.

Right and the costs are so high the premiums have to be high as the Health Insurance companies are not in the business of losing money........

cornnifer · June 2007

Indifference wrote:

How much? - how many millions? - and you wonder why health care is so expensive in this country......

Easy, Tiger. i agree that malpractice lawsuits have gotten waaay out of hand at least helping to push up the cost of healthcare. A lawsuit in this case, however, is hardly flippant. They watched a woman die on their fucking floor and did nothing to help her! You're absolutely right. There is no monetary price to be placed on human life, but if it were my loved one...

Furthermore, regarding this instance, and i will probably get flamed for this, i wonder how helpful they would have been if it were an english speaking white woman bleeding to death on the hospital floor. This whole immigration business has gotten to the point where spanish speaking people are so hated they are allowed to die, unhelped, IN A HOSPITAL, while doctors and nurses stand around and watch!

baraka · June 2007

cornnifer wrote:

Furthermore, regarding this instance, and i will probably get flamed for this, i wonder how helpful they would have been if it were an english speaking white woman bleeding to death on the hospital floor. This whole immigration business has gotten to the point where spanish speaking people are so hated they are allowed to die, unhelped, IN A HOSPITAL, while doctors and nurses stand around and watch!

You might be on to something here, cornnifer. Most health care workers, esp those that work in the ER have to 'separate' themselves from situations, ie, not get personally involved. This is important so you have a clear, objective head and you are able to perform in a crisis. Unfortunately, this can also 'de-humanize' patients. A good health care provider finds balance with this. I think the most important thing for a health care worker to do is imagine that they or a loved one is that patient. It is true that our ERs are inundated with uninsured folks and a good portion of them are spanish speaking. I have no doubt that the sentiment you mentioned above applies to a lot of health care workers. But I will also add, a lot of health care workers donate their time to 'free' clinics for the uninsured.

Heineken Helen · June 2007

baraka wrote:

You might be on to something here, cornnifer. Most health care workers, esp those that work in the ER have to 'separate' themselves from situations, ie, not get personally involved. This is important so you have a clear, objective head and you are able to perform in a crisis. Unfortunately, this can also 'de-humanize' patients. A good health care provider finds balance with this. I think the most important thing for a health care worker to do is imagine that they or a loved one is that patient. It is true that our ERs are inundated with uninsured folks and a good portion of them are spanish speaking. I have no doubt that the sentiment you mentioned above applies to a lot of health care workers. But I will also add, a lot of health care workers donate their time to 'free' clinics for the uninsured.

I think if you're gonna watch someone die and do nothing, it wouldn't make a slight bit of difference what colour they are or what language they speak :mad: I would doubt this has anything to do with race before that card gets played.

cornnifer · June 2007

baraka wrote:

You might be on to something here, cornnifer. Most health care workers, esp those that work in the ER have to 'separate' themselves from situations, ie, not get personally involved. This is important so you have a clear, objective head and you are able to perform in a crisis. Unfortunately, this can also 'de-humanize' patients. A good health care provider finds balance with this. I think the most important thing for a health care worker to do is imagine that they or a loved one is that patient. It is true that our ERs are inundated with uninsured folks and a good portion of them are spanish speaking. I have no doubt that the sentiment you mentioned above applies to a lot of health care workers. But I will also add, a lot of health care workers donate their time to 'free' clinics for the uninsured.

i don't like to, but i can't help thinking this tragedy goes beyond lack of insurance. i hear it day in and day out in my conversations with people, even those i thought i would never hear it from. "Those damned Mexicans... don't even speak our language... want to come into MY country... blah, blah, blah..."
Understand, i am not making blanket indictments of healthcare workers as i have much respect for the field in general. In this particular instance, i just can't help wondering, had she been english speaking and white, insurance or not...

Heineken Helen · June 2007

cornnifer wrote:

i don't like to, but i can't help thinking this tragedy goes beyond lack of insurance. i hear it day in and day out in my conversations with people, even those i thought i would never hear it from. "Those damned Mexicans... don't even speak our language... want to come into MY country... blah, blah, blah..."
Understand, i am not making blanket indictments of healthcare workers as i have much respect for the field in general. In this particular instance, i just can't help wondering, had she been english speaking and white, insurance or not...

Its one thing to give out about immigrants or other races... but to actually watch somebody die if you have the capabilities to stop it and do nothing... that's an ENTIRELY different ballgame there! You're pretty much talking manslaughter.

Vedderlution_Baby · June 2007

Heineken Helen wrote:

Its one thing to give out about immigrants or other races... but to actually watch somebody die if you have the capabilities to stop it and do nothing... that's an ENTIRELY different ballgame there! You're pretty much talking manslaughter.

It's not like that is such an huge leap when it comes to coming up with theories on why woman died on the floor of a hospital. You find it unrealistic to believe that this woman could have been killed by a case of racism or unprejudiced?

Heineken Helen · June 2007

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

It's not like that is such an huge leap when it comes to coming up with theories on why woman died on the floor of a hospital. You find it unrealistic to believe that this woman could have been killed by a case of racism or unprejudiced?

By EVERYONE? Yes, I do find that unreasonable to believe... was there only one member of staff in the entire hospital who could have helped her?

Vedderlution_Baby · June 2007

Heineken Helen wrote:

By EVERYONE? Yes, I do find that unreasonable to believe... was there only one member of staff in the entire hospital who could have helped her?

Peer pressure goes a long way. I'm not saying this lady died because she was hispanic. I'm saying that they didnt notice her bleeding on the floor. Them not doing shit opens up questions as to why, which include racism and prejudice.

jeffbr · June 2007

cornnifer wrote:

Understand, i am not making blanket indictments of healthcare workers as i have much respect for the field in general. In this particular instance, i just can't help wondering, had she been english speaking and white, insurance or not...

I'm not so sure about that. King/Harbor is a shitty hospital with a history of problems. They are in an undesirable area. I'm betting this woman looked just like most of the people in the hospital emergency room. There would have been no reason to single her out to ignore her based on her race or lack of insurance. I'm thinking it was partially due to her frequency there in the few days leading up to her death. She'd been there three previous times in the days preceding the incident to get pain meds. I wouldn't be surprised if an uncaring staffer saw her come in again, rolled her eyes, and figured she could wait in line like everyone else. I read that 40% of the vocational nurses and nurses assistants couldn't even pass a basic skills test during an audit. That place has been a disaster and should have been shut down. They've been threatened with having federal funding taken away, but so far nothing has happened.

Indifference · June 2007

Just more info:

The coroner's office described Rodriguez as a transient with a history of illicit drug use. Her family said she was trying to put her life together.

In the days leading to her death, Rodriguez was treated several times for severe abdominal pain and released, the Times reported.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=106&sid=1141385

jeffbr · June 2007

Heineken Helen wrote:

By EVERYONE? Yes, I do find that unreasonable to believe... was there only one member of staff in the entire hospital who could have helped her?

I agree with you. If this were simply racism, why was anyone in that emergency room being treated? Not sure why the race card is pulled out so often here, but the problems at that hospital are many and deep.

Vedderlution_Baby · June 2007

Indifference wrote:

Just more info:

The coroner's office described Rodriguez as a transient with a history of illicit drug use. Her family said she was trying to put her life together.

In the days leading to her death, Rodriguez was treated several times for severe abdominal pain and released, the Times reported.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=106&sid=1141385

Well that just fucking sucks. Is there a limit on the amount of times can be treated for one thing before thrown into the boy cried wolf catergory? By the way, yes, I would be skeptical if a boy told me twice that he had seen a wolf and i went up to the flock and saw nothing. But if he came back bleeding and in extreme pain, I'd probably be inclined to believe him.

Heineken Helen · June 2007

jeffbr wrote:

I agree with you. If this were simply racism, why was anyone in that emergency room being treated? Not sure why the race card is pulled out so often here, but the problems at that hospital are many and deep.

Because that's what happens. Yes, it's a reasonable question to ASK... but when you actually think about it, it's a pretty ridiculous accusation. Yes, obviously the set up at the hospital was shit, but I'd say it's no more than that.

cornnifer · June 2007

Heineken Helen wrote:

Its one thing to give out about immigrants or other races... but to actually watch somebody die if you have the capabilities to stop it and do nothing... that's an ENTIRELY different ballgame there! You're pretty much talking manslaughter.

Well, then, since you brought it up, IMO, white, black, green, purple, orange or brown, speaking English, Spanish, French, or Elvish, trained professionals watching someone die on a hospital floor and refusing to intervene, pretty much IS manslaughter.

i am only questioning WHY, in this particular instance. Whereas i'll stop short, at this point from making outright accusations, i simply can't help but wonder if perhaps the underlying, subconscious, "Mexican (or Spanish speaking) hatrerd that seems to be the current, government created trend in these United States, has something to do with it.

cornnifer · June 2007

jeffbr wrote:

I'm not so sure about that. King/Harbor is a shitty hospital with a history of problems. They are in an undesirable area. I'm betting this woman looked just like most of the people in the hospital emergency room. There would have been no reason to single her out to ignore her based on her race or lack of insurance. I'm thinking it was partially due to her frequency there in the few days leading up to her death. She'd been there three previous times in the days preceding the incident to get pain meds. I wouldn't be surprised if an uncaring staffer saw her come in again, rolled her eyes, and figured she could wait in line like everyone else. I read that 40% of the vocational nurses and nurses assistants couldn't even pass a basic skills test during an audit. That place has been a disaster and should have been shut down. They've been threatened with having federal funding taken away, but so far nothing has happened.

Perhaps. As i said earlier, i am not making accusations. Just asking questions. Can't help it. I certainly hope it has nothing to do with it.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · June 2007

Well in Canada, I can make and take as many trips to the hospitals/doctors office as I like, and always get appropriate and friendly treatment. I actually had to decline an MRI, and a doctors appointment last week because I didn't feel it was necessary (I've had 4 MRI's and about a 8 doc appts,various bloodwork, SFEMG tests (very exclusive procedure) and a trip to the hosp emerg room in the past 6 months). It was all free. I suppose it has a lot to do with who or what you are to a certain degree.

If you are articulate, intelligent, outspoken, jovial, and physically appealing, I would make bets you get preferential treatment with just about everything in life. Not to blow my own horn

but you get the idea...

Vedderlution_Baby · June 2007

cornnifer wrote:

Perhaps. As i said earlier, i am not making accusations. Just asking questions. Can't help it. I certainly hope it has nothing to do with it.

Seems like this woman had been treated numerous times for the same thing inrecent days leading up to this and that it got to a point where the hospital staff said "enough. we're not dealing with this anymore". which, looking at the evidence, is ridiculous and on the level of manslaughter.

Woman dies in ER lobby as 911 refuses to help

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