So this hosptial only had one doctor? How do you know how many doctors were available? There's always some kind of resource at a hospital that can be utilized...every patient there surely wasn't in critical condition all at the exact same time.
And the 3rd party woman, I'm sure, was in the ER for her own reasons. People just don't hang out there for the scenery.
dude, this is all I can tell you.....I don't live in a major metropolitan overpopulated place like LA. but even in the area I live in, every single hospital is understaffed and every ER is overworked. so it would be very hard for me to believe that the problem is not much worse in a huge place like LA. they have emergencies at all hours of the day and night and the ER is probably packed 24/7. I'm just saying that until I see further proof, I'm not going to believe that a doctor or nurse just lazily stood there and watched this woman die.
she should have been at a different hospital. so the question comes down to, who should get her there? I believe the protocal is for the paramedics to get her there, and that's where the blame on the 911 operator comes in.
i hear that the movie proves that if the us government would turn to communism and take everything from the people; the us would have the money for socialized healthcare.
Yea, I hear a lot of shit too. Most of it I don't believe. You play everything by ear?
dude, this is all I can tell you.....I don't live in a major metropolitan overpopulated place like LA. but even in the area I live in, every single hospital is understaffed and every ER is overworked. so it would be very hard for me to believe that the problem is not much worse in a huge place like LA. they have emergencies at all hours of the day and night and the ER is probably packed 24/7. I'm just saying that until I see further proof, I'm not going to believe that a doctor or nurse just lazily stood there and watched this woman die.
she should have been at a different hospital. so the question comes down to, who should get her there? I believe the protocal is for the paramedics to get her there, and that's where the blame on the 911 operator comes in.
The 3rd party woman said they were just standing there watching and so did the husband.
‘They’re just watching her’
“They’re watching her there and they’re not doing anything. They’re just watching her
“She’s definitely sick and there’s a guy that’s ignoring her
“You’re not here to see how they’re treating her,” the woman replied
I'm basing my judgment on these statements from two people who were actually there....not from a hypothetical guess.
also this:
'Dr. Bruce Chernof, director of the county Department of Health Services, which oversees the facility, has called Rodriguez’s death “inexcusable” and said it was “important to understand that this was fundamentally a failure of caring.” He has said conditions are improving, though'
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
'Dr. Bruce Chernof, director of the county Department of Health Services, which oversees the facility, has called Rodriguez’s death “inexcusable” and said it was “important to understand that this was fundamentally a failure of caring.” He has said conditions are improving, though'
The only thing to do IS improve! shit man, whatcha gonna do, give the motherfucker rat poison in their jello?
The 3rd party woman said they were just standing there watching and so did the husband.
‘They’re just watching her’
“They’re watching her there and they’re not doing anything. They’re just watching her
“She’s definitely sick and there’s a guy that’s ignoring her
“You’re not here to see how they’re treating her,” the woman replied
I'm basing my judgment on these statements from two people who were actually there....not from a hypothetical guess.
also this:
'Dr. Bruce Chernof, director of the county Department of Health Services, which oversees the facility, has called Rodriguez’s death “inexcusable” and said it was “important to understand that this was fundamentally a failure of caring.” He has said conditions are improving, though'
WHO was standing there watching her die? a doctor? does it say that anywhere? if so, the doctor should be sued, barred from practicing medicine, and possibly jailed. but it doesn't say that does it? so you're making as many hypothetical guesses as I am. usually, it's a secretary or a volunteer that works the check-in counters, not doctors. and I doubt very much that a doctor was standing there watching this woman die.
also, where was Dr Chernof during this ordeal? sounds like he was just the man to swing in and correct the problem. oh wait, he was probably at home sitting on his ass because he's an 9-5 administrator while everybody else had their hands full.
WHO was standing there watching her die? a doctor? does it say that anywhere? if so, the doctor should be sued, barred from practicing medicine, and possibly jailed. but it doesn't say that does it? so you're making as many hypothetical guesses as I am. usually, it's a secretary or a volunteer that works the check-in counters, not doctors. and I doubt very much that a doctor was standing there watching this woman die.
I'm doubting these people were expecting the secretary to help out but who knows. That seems very odd to me.
also, where was Dr Chernof during this ordeal? sounds like he was just the man to swing in and correct the problem. oh wait, he was probably at home sitting on his ass because he's an 9-5 administrator while everybody else had their hands full.
He is a professional who handles these kinds situations and knows more about what went on than you do.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
He is a professional who handles these kinds situations and knows more about what went on than you do.
and I know as much about this situation as you do, so I have as much reasoning behind my "hypothetical guesses" as you do for making your "hypothetical guesses".
what did you think the hospital administrator was going to say, "fuck her, she got what she had coming"??? I stand by my statement that until I see sworn testimony that an actual doctor was standing there watching her die, I won't believe it. no doctor would be stupid enough to do that, that's an automatic dismissal from the medical profession. so show me some actual proof that it was a doctor and not some secretary or volunteer.
Yea, I hear a lot of shit too. Most of it I don't believe. You play everything by ear?
i agree. but why would he go to a communist dictarorship to express the need for socialized medicine? personally i would have used canada's healthcare system as an example. i hear it's great.
i agree. but why would he go to a communist dictarorship to express the need for socialized medicine? personally i would have used canada's healthcare system as an example. i hear it's great.
I saw Moore's interview on the Bill Mahr show. he said the movie is less about "socialized healthcare" as it is about insured people not actually being covered for much needed healthcare. kind of like that Denzel Washington movie "John Q"... that guy had insurance, the insurance just refused to pay. to that extend, Moore is right on the money. the healthcare industry is just like the oil industry....they make billions in profits each year by fucking people over.
i agree. but why would he go to a communist dictarorship to express the need for socialized medicine? personally i would have used canada's healthcare system as an example. i hear it's great.
maybe to show that it's ironic that a smaller, poorer communist country has a better health care system than a large, rich, democratic one?
and I know as much about this situation as you do, so I have as much reasoning behind my "hypothetical guesses" as you do for making your "hypothetical guesses".
what did you think the hospital administrator was going to say, "fuck her, she got what she had coming"??? I stand by my statement that until I see sworn testimony that an actual doctor was standing there watching her die, I won't believe it. no doctor would be stupid enough to do that, that's an automatic dismissal from the medical profession. so show me some actual proof that it was a doctor and not some secretary or volunteer.
I'm basing mine on the statements I've already pointed out to you earlier. You are basing your's on guesses.
He didn't have to come across as crass and blunt to still defend the hospital much like you have tried to do in this thread...that is if it deserved to be defended.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm basing mine on the statements I've already pointed out to you earlier. You are basing your's on guesses.
He didn't have to come across as crass and blunt to still defend the hospital much like you have tried to do in this thread...that is if it deserved to be defended.
you have not presented one shred of evidence that a doctor (or even a nurse for that matter) stood by and watched this woman die. If I'm ever tried for anything, I hope you're not on my jury as you seem to be overly anxious to convict with nothing but heresay and speculation to go on.
and for the record, I've not "defended" anything. I said that if it's actually shown that the hospital was willfully neglegant, they should be held responsible. but I said all the facts should be known before jumping to conclusions. if all we're going on is speculation, I think my reasoning of what likely happened comes a lot closer to reality than what you think happened. sorry if you don't understand that.
you have not presented one shred of evidence that a doctor (or even a nurse for that matter) stood by and watched this woman die. If I'm ever tried for anything, I hope you're not on my jury as you seem to be overly anxious to convict with nothing but heresay and speculation to go on.
and for the record, I've not "defended" anything. I said that if it's actually shown that the hospital was willfully neglegant, they should be held responsible. but I said all the facts should be known before jumping to conclusions. if all we're going on is speculation, I think my reasoning of what likely happened comes a lot closer to reality than what you think happened. sorry if you don't understand that.
You made as many assumptions as I did. I only based mine on eye witnesses who phoned in the 911 calls. What did you base yours on?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i agree. but why would he go to a communist dictarorship to express the need for socialized medicine? personally i would have used canada's healthcare system as an example. i hear it's great.
A six hour wait in ER is pretty common in Canada. When I broke a bone in my arm in February I didn't bother going to the ER right away as I knew a broken bone would be at least a six hour wait. Even going at 5 am it took nearly three hours to be seen.
And if the admitting nurse makes a mistake with his/her triage assessment of you then you are fucked.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
You made as many assumptions as I did. I only based mine on eye witnesses who phoned in the 911 calls. What did you base yours on?
so then, you admit you based your assumptions on heresay?
I based my assumptions on the fact that I've been to many different hospitals around my area and have seen firsthand that hospitals are understaffed and overworked. my wife is an RN in a hospital and she knows this same thing. and I know that my area has nowhere near the population problems as LA.
so yeah we're both making assumptions. but my experiences lead me to think the hospital was understaffed and overworked and a woman died because of it. your assumption, on the other hand, seems to be that a doctor or nurse callously stood by watching as the woman died. I find that scenario to be extremely unlikely, but we'll see how it unfolds.
so then, you admit you based your assumptions on heresay?
I based my assumptions on the fact that I've been to many different hospitals around my area and have seen firsthand that hospitals are understaffed and overworked. my wife is an RN in a hospital and she knows this same thing. and I know that my area has nowhere near the population problems as LA.
so yeah we're both making assumptions. but my experiences lead me to think the hospital was understaffed and overworked and a woman died because of it. your assumption, on the other hand, seems to be that a doctor or nurse callously stood by watching as the woman died. I find that scenario to be extremely unlikely, but we'll see how it unfolds.
I agree with MLC. My bro-in-law's mom is a nurse at Rush Pres. in Chicago and on some nights, the doctors there truly play God. They make split-second decisions all the time...
Do you save the 12 year old that was in a car accident or the crack-head prostitute with multiple stab wounds from a john-gone-bad?
It will be interesting to see how this one unfolds...
maybe to show that it's ironic that a smaller, poorer communist country has a better health care system than a large, rich, democratic one?
but it's a dictatorship. i don't care how small the country is; when the government takes so much from the people; they can afford free healthcare. free healthcare doesn't mean the doctors work for free. someone has to pay them. since the people support the government the people pay. there are healthy people paying for the sick. it can't work any other way. in the us; illegals flood the country then have baby citizens that are entitled to social services. since illegals are paid so poorly they qualify for welfare and medicaid. they get it because they are the caretakers of an american citizen. that money could be going towards socialized medicine.
in a small country such as cuba; how many doctors do you think they have? now how many doctors does the us have? my guess is more than the entire population of cuba. point being that it costs less to treat 300,000 people (just an example. i don't know cuba's population) than it is to treat 300 million. if we have 10 million doctors and each averages $150 K per year; what would each taxpayer have to pay in? keep in mind that this is doctors only. it doesn't include hospitals; treatments or testing. you can try to tax businesses but they raise their costs to the consumer so the people pay anyway. and remember; doctors in cuba have a limit to what they can make. you won't see a cuban doctor making $150K per year. closer to $20K if that.
now; if you can't pay the premiums for health insurance for yourself; how are you going to pay for ALL the healthcare for the additional 10 non-taxpayers you're now supporting?
but it's a dictatorship. i don't care how small the country is; when the government takes so much from the people; they can afford free healthcare. free healthcare doesn't mean the doctors work for free. someone has to pay them. since the people support the government the people pay. there are healthy people paying for the sick. it can't work any other way. in the us; illegals flood the country then have baby citizens that are entitled to social services. since illegals are paid so poorly they qualify for welfare and medicaid. they get it because they are the caretakers of an american citizen. that money could be going towards socialized medicine.
in a small country such as cuba; how many doctors do you think they have? now how many doctors does the us have? my guess is more than the entire population of cuba. point being that it costs less to treat 300,000 people (just an example. i don't know cuba's population) than it is to treat 300 million. if we have 10 million doctors and each averages $150 K per year; what would each taxpayer have to pay in? keep in mind that this is doctors only. it doesn't include hospitals; treatments or testing. you can try to tax businesses but they raise their costs to the consumer so the people pay anyway. and remember; doctors in cuba have a limit to what they can make. you won't see a cuban doctor making $150K per year. closer to $20K if that.
now; if you can't pay the premiums for health insurance for yourself; how are you going to pay for ALL the healthcare for the additional 10 non-taxpayers you're now supporting?
can you see my point?
Your point seems to be that if the US didn't have illegal immigration, you would vote for a national health care system.
Comments
dude, this is all I can tell you.....I don't live in a major metropolitan overpopulated place like LA. but even in the area I live in, every single hospital is understaffed and every ER is overworked. so it would be very hard for me to believe that the problem is not much worse in a huge place like LA. they have emergencies at all hours of the day and night and the ER is probably packed 24/7. I'm just saying that until I see further proof, I'm not going to believe that a doctor or nurse just lazily stood there and watched this woman die.
she should have been at a different hospital. so the question comes down to, who should get her there? I believe the protocal is for the paramedics to get her there, and that's where the blame on the 911 operator comes in.
Yea, I hear a lot of shit too. Most of it I don't believe. You play everything by ear?
The 3rd party woman said they were just standing there watching and so did the husband.
‘They’re just watching her’
“They’re watching her there and they’re not doing anything. They’re just watching her
“She’s definitely sick and there’s a guy that’s ignoring her
“You’re not here to see how they’re treating her,” the woman replied
I'm basing my judgment on these statements from two people who were actually there....not from a hypothetical guess.
also this:
'Dr. Bruce Chernof, director of the county Department of Health Services, which oversees the facility, has called Rodriguez’s death “inexcusable” and said it was “important to understand that this was fundamentally a failure of caring.” He has said conditions are improving, though'
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The only thing to do IS improve! shit man, whatcha gonna do, give the motherfucker rat poison in their jello?
WHO was standing there watching her die? a doctor? does it say that anywhere? if so, the doctor should be sued, barred from practicing medicine, and possibly jailed. but it doesn't say that does it? so you're making as many hypothetical guesses as I am. usually, it's a secretary or a volunteer that works the check-in counters, not doctors. and I doubt very much that a doctor was standing there watching this woman die.
also, where was Dr Chernof during this ordeal? sounds like he was just the man to swing in and correct the problem. oh wait, he was probably at home sitting on his ass because he's an 9-5 administrator while everybody else had their hands full.
I'm doubting these people were expecting the secretary to help out but who knows. That seems very odd to me.
He is a professional who handles these kinds situations and knows more about what went on than you do.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
and I know as much about this situation as you do, so I have as much reasoning behind my "hypothetical guesses" as you do for making your "hypothetical guesses".
what did you think the hospital administrator was going to say, "fuck her, she got what she had coming"??? I stand by my statement that until I see sworn testimony that an actual doctor was standing there watching her die, I won't believe it. no doctor would be stupid enough to do that, that's an automatic dismissal from the medical profession. so show me some actual proof that it was a doctor and not some secretary or volunteer.
i agree. but why would he go to a communist dictarorship to express the need for socialized medicine? personally i would have used canada's healthcare system as an example. i hear it's great.
I saw Moore's interview on the Bill Mahr show. he said the movie is less about "socialized healthcare" as it is about insured people not actually being covered for much needed healthcare. kind of like that Denzel Washington movie "John Q"... that guy had insurance, the insurance just refused to pay. to that extend, Moore is right on the money. the healthcare industry is just like the oil industry....they make billions in profits each year by fucking people over.
maybe to show that it's ironic that a smaller, poorer communist country has a better health care system than a large, rich, democratic one?
I'm basing mine on the statements I've already pointed out to you earlier. You are basing your's on guesses.
He didn't have to come across as crass and blunt to still defend the hospital much like you have tried to do in this thread...that is if it deserved to be defended.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
you have not presented one shred of evidence that a doctor (or even a nurse for that matter) stood by and watched this woman die. If I'm ever tried for anything, I hope you're not on my jury as you seem to be overly anxious to convict with nothing but heresay and speculation to go on.
and for the record, I've not "defended" anything. I said that if it's actually shown that the hospital was willfully neglegant, they should be held responsible. but I said all the facts should be known before jumping to conclusions. if all we're going on is speculation, I think my reasoning of what likely happened comes a lot closer to reality than what you think happened. sorry if you don't understand that.
You made as many assumptions as I did. I only based mine on eye witnesses who phoned in the 911 calls. What did you base yours on?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And if the admitting nurse makes a mistake with his/her triage assessment of you then you are fucked.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
so then, you admit you based your assumptions on heresay?
I based my assumptions on the fact that I've been to many different hospitals around my area and have seen firsthand that hospitals are understaffed and overworked. my wife is an RN in a hospital and she knows this same thing. and I know that my area has nowhere near the population problems as LA.
so yeah we're both making assumptions. but my experiences lead me to think the hospital was understaffed and overworked and a woman died because of it. your assumption, on the other hand, seems to be that a doctor or nurse callously stood by watching as the woman died. I find that scenario to be extremely unlikely, but we'll see how it unfolds.
I agree with MLC. My bro-in-law's mom is a nurse at Rush Pres. in Chicago and on some nights, the doctors there truly play God. They make split-second decisions all the time...
Do you save the 12 year old that was in a car accident or the crack-head prostitute with multiple stab wounds from a john-gone-bad?
It will be interesting to see how this one unfolds...
I just don't see how this could have happened on my watch. And I worked in a very busy ER.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
but it's a dictatorship. i don't care how small the country is; when the government takes so much from the people; they can afford free healthcare. free healthcare doesn't mean the doctors work for free. someone has to pay them. since the people support the government the people pay. there are healthy people paying for the sick. it can't work any other way. in the us; illegals flood the country then have baby citizens that are entitled to social services. since illegals are paid so poorly they qualify for welfare and medicaid. they get it because they are the caretakers of an american citizen. that money could be going towards socialized medicine.
in a small country such as cuba; how many doctors do you think they have? now how many doctors does the us have? my guess is more than the entire population of cuba. point being that it costs less to treat 300,000 people (just an example. i don't know cuba's population) than it is to treat 300 million. if we have 10 million doctors and each averages $150 K per year; what would each taxpayer have to pay in? keep in mind that this is doctors only. it doesn't include hospitals; treatments or testing. you can try to tax businesses but they raise their costs to the consumer so the people pay anyway. and remember; doctors in cuba have a limit to what they can make. you won't see a cuban doctor making $150K per year. closer to $20K if that.
now; if you can't pay the premiums for health insurance for yourself; how are you going to pay for ALL the healthcare for the additional 10 non-taxpayers you're now supporting?
can you see my point?
Your point seems to be that if the US didn't have illegal immigration, you would vote for a national health care system.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.