“Kyoto is a socialist scheme to suck money out of wealth-producing nation"

thankyougrandma
thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
edited February 2007 in A Moving Train
These are the great wise words of Canada Prime Minister, Stephen Harper. He put those ridiculous ads against Dion, the Liberals gave this letter to the medias, i think we'll be up for a nice political season...

Harper letter dismissed Kyoto a money-sucking socialist scheme
Alexander Panetta, The Canadian Press
Published: Tuesday, January 30, 2007
OTTAWA - A prime minister who now promises to fight climate change once ridiculed the Kyoto accord as a money-sucking socialist scheme and said he would battle to defeat it.

Stephen Harper derided the global treaty and questioned the science of climate change in a 2002 fundraising letter sent to members of his now-defunct Canadian Alliance party....
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=0de3608c-9f8f-49f4-bb52-bf3fcd9aa3a5&k=71162
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
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Comments

  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    those ads are pathetic ... 1. are we going to have an election soon? ... if so, let's have it ... 2. i love negative campaigning - when u have nothing good to say about yourself ... run these ads with FALSE facts!! ... pretty sad ... and 3. firing the environmental commissioner reeks of the politicizing that these conservatives were so apparently set against ...

    this gov't is a joke ... its principles are flawed and no matter how much spin doctoring they do - they won't be able to govern this country as the people see fit ...
  • smarchee
    smarchee Windsor, Ontario Posts: 14,539
    I read in the Globe&Mail that someone made a parody of the Conservative attack adds and posted it on youtube. Here it is, thought it was funny

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0pKGdLjxk
    1998 ~ Barrie
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  • ThumbingMyWay32
    ThumbingMyWay32 Posts: 1,224
    “Kyoto is a socialist scheme to suck money out of wealth-producing nation"

    Sounds good to me.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • ProvidenceHunter
    ProvidenceHunter Posts: 52
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    “Kyoto is a socialist scheme to suck money out of wealth-producing nation"

    Sounds good to me.


    Pretty much sums it up.
    Peace through superior firepower!
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    “Kyoto is a socialist scheme to suck money out of wealth-producing nation"

    Sounds good to me.

    Next thing yah know, people will be saying that the American left is invested in a loss in Iraq. Oh, the outrageous claims of these whacky right-wingers.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • american
    american Posts: 55
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    Next thing yah know, people will be saying that the American left is invested in a loss in Iraq. Oh, the outrageous claims of these whacky right-wingers.
    They are invested in defeat.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    The canadian prime minister just got a new American fan.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • ThumbingMyWay32
    ThumbingMyWay32 Posts: 1,224
    Do any liberals know what Kyoto is? Or is it just a word association thing?

    I guess that explains why they always seem to leave these threads alone.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    Do any liberals know what Kyoto is? Or is it just a word association thing?

    I guess that explains why they always seem to leave these threads alone.


    Here's Chomsky's take on the Bush administrations refusal to follow the Kyoto agreement, and my interpretation.

    "The Bush admin has been criticized for undermining the Kyoto Protocol on grounds that it would harm the US economy. ...odd. We are instructed daily to be firm believers in neoclassical markets, in which isolated individuals are rational wealth maximizers. If distortions are eliminated, the market should respond perfectly to their votes, [dollars]. The value of a person's interest is measured the same way. ...the interests of those with no votes [dollars] are valued at zero: future generations for example. It is therefore rational to destroy the possibility for decent survivial for our grandchildren, if by doing so we can maximize our own wealth."


    So Bush, by refusing to follow Kyoto on grounds that it may affect the US economy negatively, is doing the right thing, because we are allowed to pursue personal wealth at all costs. Even our very survival comes second in this pursuit of monetary gain.
  • ThumbingMyWay32
    ThumbingMyWay32 Posts: 1,224
    Commy wrote:
    Here's Chomsky's take on the Bush administrations refusal to follow the Kyoto agreement, and my interpretation.

    "The Bush admin has been criticized for undermining the Kyoto Protocol on grounds that it would harm the US economy. ...odd. We are instructed daily to be firm believers in neoclassical markets, in which isolated individuals are rational wealth maximizers. If distortions are eliminated, the market should respond perfectly to their votes, [dollars]. The value of a person's interest is measured the same way. ...the interests of those with no votes [dollars] are valued at zero: future generations for example. It is therefore rational to destroy the possibility for decent survivial for our grandchildren, if by doing so we can maximize our own wealth."


    So Bush, by refusing to follow Kyoto on grounds that it may affect the US economy negatively, is doing the right thing, because we are allowed to pursue personal wealth at all costs. Even our very survival comes second in this pursuit of monetary gain.

    A statement like that is likely to get you banned around here. So do me a favor and whisper next time...
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    A statement like that is likely to get you banned around here. So do me a favor and whisper next time...
    thanks for the heads up. I'm kinda new around here....
  • ThumbingMyWay32
    ThumbingMyWay32 Posts: 1,224
    Haha Yeah right.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Commy wrote:
    So Bush, by refusing to follow Kyoto on grounds that it may affect the US economy negatively, is doing the right thing, because we are allowed to pursue personal wealth at all costs. Even our very survival comes second in this pursuit of monetary gain.

    Remind me again what the net affect of Kyoto would be in terms of environmental impact. You (and/or Chomsky) have elevated Kyoto to a level not even touted by most of its proponents - "our very survival". Will Kyoto really address "our very survival"? If so, how? Will climate change be minimized? Will the warming trend be reversed? Or will the warming trend at least be slowed? What kind of timeframe are we looking at to realize the drastic changes Kyoto will usher in?

    Most Kyoto proponents I've talked to concede that Kyoto will have little tangible effect. If that is the case it makes your conclusion seem a bit melodramatic.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    The "socialist scheme" is a bit too much on the conspiracy side.
    But as they say, what can the protocol achieve if the biggest carbon emitting countries are out of it?
    Kyoto would have been a first step towards a controlled development for the world. But in the end it really will be a money-sucking-failed protocol.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    I don't get it. Do the socialists really gain anything from it?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    kyoto was a framework for setting targets ... all of the components of tradings and caps are really not that relevant ... the targets set are a joke - easily met (as anyone who cares can see overseas) ...

    the reality is that the US economy would likely be hurt for the simple fact that oil and gas (and weapons) dictate policy there ... it is why exxon can post $600 billion profits ... they control the policies coming out of washington ...

    at the end of the day - the US is like that high draft pick with limitless potential who just doesn't care - they got their big contract and are wasting away ...
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    thankyougrandma wrote:
    These are the great wise words of Canada Prime Minister, Stephen Harper. He put those ridiculous ads against Dion, the Liberals gave this letter to the medias, i think we'll be up for a nice political season...

    Harper letter dismissed Kyoto a money-sucking socialist scheme
    Alexander Panetta, The Canadian Press
    Published: Tuesday, January 30, 2007
    OTTAWA - A prime minister who now promises to fight climate change once ridiculed the Kyoto accord as a money-sucking socialist scheme and said he would battle to defeat it.

    Stephen Harper derided the global treaty and questioned the science of climate change in a 2002 fundraising letter sent to members of his now-defunct Canadian Alliance party....
    http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=0de3608c-9f8f-49f4-bb52-bf3fcd9aa3a5&k=71162


    Did Harper at least change the name Bush to Harper upon signing that letter. ;)
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    american wrote:
    They are invested in defeat.

    I think the neocons are taking pretty good care of the defeat part all by themselves...
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • sourdough
    sourdough Posts: 579
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    Do any liberals know what Kyoto is? Or is it just a word association thing?

    I guess that explains why they always seem to leave these threads alone.
    Yes we do know about Kyoto. Its generally the liberals on this board that bring up and discuss climate change and the science behind it.
  • ThumbingMyWay32
    ThumbingMyWay32 Posts: 1,224
    sourdough wrote:
    Yes we do know about Kyoto. Its generally the liberals on this board that bring up and discuss climate change and the science behind it.

    That doesn't mean you know anything about Kyoto. All that may mean is you've seen a few Al Gore speeches and an end of the world piece or two on the National Geographic Channel.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08

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