Barack Obama

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  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Taxes are just tyranny of the masses where those who contribute the most are not appreciated and are villanized.

    We dream up so many non-essential social programs and government programs because we know it's not going to be us paying for it. Then we villanize those who do pay for it for piping up. Great system we have. Where's the Bill of Rights to protect the rich? Instead they just get stuck with the bill.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I'm not talking about multi millionaires fellas. the highest tax rate starts at like 350k I believe? at like 40% of income?? and even lower then that, like 100k a year get taxed at 35%. and you wantt o increase that? no thanks. It took alot of hard work to get where im at and I dont want to continue to work harder and move up only to have to give it back.

    not every wealthy person makes as much as Arod and buffet.
    There are many ways to 'shift the tax burden'.

    We could tax things we don't like as opposed to things we need. Pollution emissions or financial speculation, even stocks, for example could be taxed. When a working class individual buys food or medicine he pays a flat sales tax. Yet some stock broker who buys 100,000 shares in Haliburton pays ZERO sales tax. Is that fair?

    A tiny tax on the stock market could pay for universal health care, lifting the burden on the lower classes even more.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Its Evolution Baby wrote:
    .... but its DEFINITELY not fair to raise the rates on someone in my position.
    Why isn't it fair to raise your taxes? Please make a case for this. Why do you want government to provide services that you are not willing to pay for?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Its Evolution Baby wrote:
    Where's the evidence that they work harder then The Average Joe?

    law school and medical school. those are two example out of 100s I can give you....would you like me to go on?

    Its Evolution Baby wrote:
    Taxes need to come from somewhere but you should not raise it on the working class. I also agree that raising it on people making $100K a year is not necessarily fair but its DEFINITELY not fair to raise the rates on someone in my position.
    I dont want to raise your taxes. raising taxes on anyone is wrong and IS NOT NECESSARY. taxes need to come from somewhere and they do. plenty of them. spending needs to be cut. that solves your problem
    Its Evolution Baby wrote:
    Now maybe if we better spent what we already taxed then we wouldn't have to raise the rates on anyone.
    ding ding ding.
    Its Evolution Baby wrote:
    I do believe that that the supreme wealthy are the people who complain most about paying taxes which is is an absolute joke.

    where is your evidence of this?
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Commy wrote:
    A tiny tax on the stock market could pay for universal health care, lifting the burden on the lower classes even more.
    Once universal healthcare is provided will the poor stop demanding more money from the rich for doing nothing? Where do the demands stop?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Commy wrote:
    There are many ways to 'shift the tax burden'.

    We could tax things we don't like as opposed to things we need. Pollution emissions or financial speculation, even stocks, for example could be taxed. When a working class individual buys food or medicine he pays a flat sales tax. Yet some stock broker who buys 100,000 shares in Haliburton pays ZERO sales tax. Is that fair?

    A tiny tax on the stock market could pay for universal health care, lifting the burden on the lower classes even more.

    this sounds complicated but I like where you are going with it. the example you posed is not fair, I agree.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    this sounds complicated but I like where you are going with it. the example you posed is not fair, I agree.
    Trillions change hand daily in the stock market...it could be .01% and still be effective.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Commy wrote:
    Trillions change hand daily in the stock market...it could be .01% and still be effective.
    If you are taxing the transaction will you stop taxing capital gains when realized into income?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    Its Evolution Baby wrote:
    Where's the evidence that they work harder then The Average Joe? Taxes need to come from somewhere but you should not raise it on the working class. I also agree that raising it on people making $100K a year is not necessarily fair but its DEFINITELY not fair to raise the rates on someone in my position.

    Now maybe if we better spent what we already taxed then we wouldn't have to raise the rates on anyone.

    I do believe that that the supreme wealthy are the people who complain most about paying taxes which is is an absolute joke.

    Of course it is "DEFINITELY" unfair to raise your taxes...but so long as it's the other guy, it's alright, huh?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    Commy wrote:
    There are many ways to 'shift the tax burden'.

    We could tax things we don't like as opposed to things we need. Pollution emissions or financial speculation, even stocks, for example could be taxed. When a working class individual buys food or medicine he pays a flat sales tax. Yet some stock broker who buys 100,000 shares in Haliburton pays ZERO sales tax. Is that fair?

    A tiny tax on the stock market could pay for universal health care, lifting the burden on the lower classes even more.


    I love that phrase...the lower class "tax burden"....I just love it.

    Interesting idea about sales tax for stocks...you'd do away with all capital gains taxes then I'd assume.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    surferdude wrote:
    If you are taxing the transaction will you stop taxing capital gains when realized into income?
    Why?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Of course it is "DEFINITELY" unfair to raise your taxes...but so long as it's the other guy, it's alright, huh?

    I was also taken back by this.


    openly admitting taxes on himself are unfair but fair for others. :confused:
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Commy wrote:
    Why?
    Because you are already taxing the person on the stocks. Why not just tax those richer than you for breathing?? It seems all you want to do is devise a system where you pay little or no tax and others pay your share and way. Why not just hike the tax rate on capital gains? Why make it more complicated?

    And by making a transaction tax you will be taxing the middle class and the working poor as well. You will be taxing peoples 401K. You will be taxing those trying to rise out of being caught in the pay check to pay check working poor cycle who realize that making investments is one of the best ways out of that working poor cycle.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • DOSW
    DOSW Posts: 2,014
    Bill Clinton, a very wealthy man, is more than willing to pay higher taxes as he famously said.

    It's based on a simple principle - you have more, you give more. Is it fair? Not really, per se. But it's the right thing to do. The upper class should recognize that they have a responsibility to share some of their wealth because they can afford to do so.

    Boohoo, it's not fair. Poor people deserve to be poor, so you guys don't have to help them, right?

    I call bullshit.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    DOSW wrote:
    The upper class should recognize that they have a responsibility to share some of their wealth because they can afford to do so.
    Please expand on this responsibility the rich have. Where does this responsibility come from?
    DOSW wrote:
    Boohoo, it's not fair. Poor people deserve to be poor, so you guys don't have to help them, right?

    I call bullshit.
    Boohoo, it's not fair. Rich people don't deserve to be rich, so they should have to help or be criminals. This basically what you're saying. Saying this as you type away at a computer. How would you like it if a law was passed making you a criminal for being able to afford a computer while there are those without healthcare. When will your responsibility to the poor kick in?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    DOSW wrote:
    Bill Clinton, a very wealthy man, is more than willing to pay higher taxes as he famously said.

    It's based on a simple principle - you have more, you give more. Is it fair? Not really, per se. But it's the right thing to do. The upper class should recognize that they have a responsibility to share some of their wealth because they can afford to do so.

    Boohoo, it's not fair. Poor people deserve to be poor, so you guys don't have to help them, right?

    I call bullshit.

    holy shit. It boggles my mind that people think like this. I dont even know how to respond. and i'm rarely left speechless.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    surferdude wrote:
    Because you are already taxing the person on the stocks. Why not just tax those richer than you for breathing?? It seems all you want to do is devise a system where you pay little or no tax and others pay your share and way. Why not just hike the tax rate on capital gains? Why make it more complicated?
    An idea.


    But this seems less complicated to me. Its a sales tax, fairly straightforward. I dont' see why that should get you out of paying the income tax.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    DOSW wrote:
    Bill Clinton, a very wealthy man, is more than willing to pay higher taxes as he famously said.

    It's based on a simple principle - you have more, you give more. Is it fair? Not really, per se. But it's the right thing to do. The upper class should recognize that they have a responsibility to share some of their wealth because they can afford to do so.

    Boohoo, it's not fair. Poor people deserve to be poor, so you guys don't have to help them, right?

    I call bullshit.


    Well...if Bill Clinton says so I'm convinced.

    A "Rich person" paying the same % is still paying WAY more taxes...why should it be more?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • DOSW
    DOSW Posts: 2,014
    jlew24asu wrote:
    holy shit. It boggles my mind that people think like this. I dont even know how to respond. and i'm rarely left speechless.

    Why? Because your greed and lust for wealth outweigh your desire to help those who can't help themselves?
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • DOSW
    DOSW Posts: 2,014
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Well...if Bill Clinton says so I'm convinced.

    A "Rich person" paying the same % is still paying WAY more taxes...why should it be more?

    Because they can afford more. The benefits that an increased tax rate on the wealthy has for other people far outweighs the negatives for the person being taxed.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win

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