Something to Piss Off My Fellow Canadians - This Needs to Change!

13

Comments

  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    polaris wrote:
    well ... you infer to it in most of your post ... the issue goes well beyond a simple no to this and yes to that ...

    i don't have the answers to native issues but i do know that cutting all programs isn't going to work either ...

    Could you at least acknowledge the vast amount of waste this program has done. Cause let me say this I have seen this program work wonders (heavily sarcastic) from my days growing up in Saskatchewan, and it is poor at best. All I see from it is re-engage the common stereotypes that people look at Natives, which also bothers me. I view them as a group of people like me and do not enjoy seeing those I personally know getting grouped in with those that choose to live their lives blaming their crappy lives on everyone BUT themselves.

    You know what amazes me the most is that most Natives (regardless of where they are to grow up) have a potential life set on a silver platter. Take this into consideration at the University of Sasktchewan there are usually a few seats reserved in non-direct entry programs (Medicine/Pharmacy/Dentistry/etc).

    In Pharmacy for example there are three seats reserved for an Aboriginal person, however it is well known that these seats are usually never taken up. Meaning that it is a free pass in the program, although you must meet the minimum academic requirements, becauae they DO NOT have to compete against NOT only those of white ancestry but Chinese/African-American/Japanese/etc. for hard to get seats in the program. Now tell me how this is fair?

    Only one answer it isn't and that is my problem, we spend so much time bitching about fairness and equality but as Canadians we are far from equal. I hearld those who do take advantage of the "Silver Platter Act" and start great careers (although I am highly confident they could easily do without the unequal treatment based on their intellect alone).

    Would be nice to see the vast amount of money getting "wasted" turned into more tax dollars into social programs that this Liberal minded guy thinks are just such as universal health care.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    onelongsong wrote:
    neither i nor my family ever enslaved blacks. over 142 years ago some wealthy americans did own slaves. i; nor my family is not responsable for what people did 142 years ago and i'll thank you not to call me a slave owner.
    if we're going to split hairs; let's talk about the crown and the wars it started with america. and also the way it took canada. and when the french had balls; what they did too. if americans are to account for what ancestors did then you too must be accountable for what your ancestors did.

    Thats my point I do not say we should be held accountable, its absurd and far from fair.


    BTW I was not implying all Americans owned slaves, simpy stating would you find it fair if YOU had to pay African Americans some of ypur tax money due to the actions of some wealthy tobacco farmers 150 years ago...I highly doubt it.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Could you at least acknowledge the vast amount of waste this program has done. Cause let me say this I have seen this program work wonders (heavily sarcastic) from my days growing up in Saskatchewan, and it is poor at best. All I see from it is re-engage the common stereotypes that people look at Natives, which also bothers me. I view them as a group of people like me and do not enjoy seeing those I personally know getting grouped in with those that choose to live their lives blaming their crappy lives on everyone BUT themselves.

    You know what amazes me the most is that most Natives (regardless of where they are to grow up) have a potential life set on a silver platter. Take this into consideration at the University of Sasktchewan there are usually a few seats reserved in non-direct entry programs (Medicine/Pharmacy/Dentistry/etc).

    In Pharmacy for example there are three seats reserved for an Aboriginal person, however it is well known that these seats are usually never taken up. Meaning that it is a free pass in the program, although you must meet the minimum academic requirements, becauae they DO NOT have to compete against NOT only those of white ancestry but Chinese/African-American/Japanese/etc. for hard to get seats in the program. Now tell me how this is fair?

    Only one answer it isn't and that is my problem, we spend so much time bitching about fairness and equality but as Canadians we are far from equal. I hearld those who do take advantage of the "Silver Platter Act" and start great careers (although I am highly confident they could easily do without the unequal treatment based on their intellect alone).

    Would be nice to see the vast amount of money getting "wasted" turned into more tax dollars into social programs that this Liberal minded guy thinks are just such as universal health care.

    sure ... lots of waste - similar to many other programs ... but you have to realize that this problem is the same for all countries with native peoples ... first of all - there is no universal voice for all native people, second - we're dealing with bureaucrats here that are serving multiple interests ...

    at the end of the day - the system needs fixing without question but we can't sit here and say that we should scrap it all either ...
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    polaris wrote:
    sure ... lots of waste - similar to many other programs ... but you have to realize that this problem is the same for all countries with native peoples ... first of all - there is no universal voice for all native people, second - we're dealing with bureaucrats here that are serving multiple interests ...

    at the end of the day - the system needs fixing without question but we can't sit here and say that we should scrap it all either ...

    How about making them pay tax if they have a job.

    How about cutting back the amount of funding after the age of 18 (unless you goto school).

    I understand the school provisions are in place to encourage those to goto school, but just saying that in my head makes it sound absurd. Who needs to be told to get an education to get ahead, you think sitting on your ass twindling your thumbs will make a career for yourself.

    But why NAtive Americans Polaris? Why not the Chinese as well, hell they are a minority yet they have to compete for valuable class space.

    I know its black and white BUT it is beyond flawed...it makes our health care system look like a Da Vinci. And I truely believe we are only pro-longing a problem because this act has been around what 100+ years and guess what problems still getting bigger. Things need to be chang but most beaurcrats are too scared to loss the Abroiginal vote to do anything.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Anyone with some unique ideas to fix this problem?

    Polaris is right we cannot just cut everything, but I would really be interested in hearing some suggestions instead of the current money pit.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I don't really take issue with this. Refugees cannot remain refugees for ever and will eventually be deported back to where they came if they can't establish citizenship and become contributing members of the country.

    I really don't mind helping out refugees. I take more issue with the mass eploitation of welfare and disability.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I don't really take issue with this. Refugees cannot remain refugees for ever and will eventually be deported back to where they came if they can't establish citizenship and become contributing members of the country.

    I really don't mind helping out refugees. I take more issue with the mass eploitation of welfare and disability.

    How about the free pass for Native Americans?
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    How about making them pay tax if they have a job.

    How about cutting back the amount of funding after the age of 18 (unless you goto school).

    I understand the school provisions are in place to encourage those to goto school, but just saying that in my head makes it sound absurd. Who needs to be told to get an education to get ahead, you think sitting on your ass twindling your thumbs will make a career for yourself.

    But why NAtive Americans Polaris? Why not the Chinese as well, hell they are a minority yet they have to compete for valuable class space.

    I know its black and white BUT it is beyond flawed...it makes our health care system look like a Da Vinci. And I truely believe we are only pro-longing a problem because this act has been around what 100+ years and guess what problems still getting bigger. Things need to be chang but most beaurcrats are too scared to loss the Abroiginal vote to do anything.

    well ... i'm not certain but i believe the kelowna accord would have gone some distance in addressing many of the issues - but that got scrapped by harper ...

    i believe natives were screwed and screwed royally ... should we pay for the exploitation of past generations? ... to a certain degree yes but not forever and not unconditionally ... i believe first and foremost - natives have to sort themselves out - be organized and focused ... and then we need an actionable plan not a band aid solution ...
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    How about the free pass for Native Americans?

    I take a lot of issue with that.

    According to the game "Real Lives" there is an incredibly high probability of being born in Indonesia over anywhere else in the world. Your also likely to die from a terminal illness by the age of 20.

    Anyway, the way I view reality doesn't leave room for these kinds of inequalities. The past is the only cause of the present.

    I remember hearing in high-school "our ancestors slaughtered Natives." Absurd! My ancestors did nothing of the sort, but if they had, that'd be their responsibility, not mine.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I take a lot of issue with that.

    According to the game "Real Lives" there is an incredibly high probability of being born in Indonesia over anywhere else in the world. Your also likely to die from a terminal illness by the age of 20.

    Anyway, the way I view reality doesn't leave room for these kinds of inequalities. The past is the only cause of the present.

    I remember hearing in high-school "our ancestors slaughtered Natives." Absurd! My ancestors did nothing of the sort, but if they had, that'd be their responsibility, not mine.

    Yeah so why again are giving them so much?
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    polaris wrote:
    well ... i'm not certain but i believe the kelowna accord would have gone some distance in addressing many of the issues - but that got scrapped by harper ...

    i believe natives were screwed and screwed royally ... should we pay for the exploitation of past generations? ... to a certain degree yes but not forever and not unconditionally ... i believe first and foremost - natives have to sort themselves out - be organized and focused ... and then we need an actionable plan not a band aid solution ...

    Yeah but 100+ years falls into the "forever" region for me. You know what would happen if a government took any of their provisions from the 1800's away, not including it would somehow be deemed racist, but it would be an uproar.

    The only reason it would be an uproar is that the modern generations have been raised to expect it.

    And okay we put the ball in the hands of the Native Americans we need for them to do something, now again how long have we been waiting. I wish they could get together and lead their people.

    We live in a age of increased health care costs that affects ALL Canadians but we still throw away money and remove taxes from a rather significant group of people. Money that could be invested into a program that helps every Canadian no matter your ancestry.

    I think there is no greater sign of respect then simplying stating that your a good people, a hard working people, and a smart people. Now is time to live like the REST of Canada, that to me is a sign of support.

    To continually produce vast hand-outs is like saying "I really feel bad for you and since it seems your incompotent to find jobs we will make short-cuts for you". To me that is a slap in the face.
  • Sonja_S
    Sonja_S Vienna Posts: 444
    beemster wrote:
    Why can't we, immigrants came to this country a 80 - 100 years ago with nothing more than the shirt on their back and contributed to building this country.

    You are confusing refugees and immigrants. Potential immigrants to Canada have to show the 'proof of funds' or their applications are immediately denied. Here's the info from the CIC website:

    The Government of Canada does not provide financial support to new skilled worker immigrants.

    You must show that you have enough money to support yourself and your dependants after you arrive in Canada. You cannot borrow this money from another person. You must be able to use this money to support your family.

    You will need to provide proof of your funds when you submit your application for immigration.

    The amount of money that you need to have to support your family is determined by the size of your family.

    Number of Family Members Funds Required
    (in Canadian dollars)
    1 $10,168
    2 $12,659
    3 $15,563
    4 $18,895
    5 $21,431
    6 $24,170
    7 or more $26,910


    I almost got married to a Canadian some years ago and didn't want to start a marriage by my husband singing as my 'sponsor' for 10 years (that's one of the conditions), even though it would have been the easier and faster way. Turned out he couldn't deal with my not being chained to him by sponsorship, so the entire thing wasn't necessary anymore :D I keep up with Canadian immigration law kind of as a hobby though (yes, I'm weird), so the idea of anyone just coming to Canada and riding the gravy train makes me laugh.
    You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
    They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Yeah so why again are giving them so much?

    Because the squeeky wheel gets the grease.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Sonja_S wrote:
    You are confusing refugees and immigrants. Potential immigrants to Canada have to show the 'proof of funds' or their applications are immediately denied. Here's the info from the CIC website:

    The Government of Canada does not provide financial support to new skilled worker immigrants.

    You must show that you have enough money to support yourself and your dependants after you arrive in Canada. You cannot borrow this money from another person. You must be able to use this money to support your family.

    You will need to provide proof of your funds when you submit your application for immigration.

    The amount of money that you need to have to support your family is determined by the size of your family.

    Number of Family Members Funds Required
    (in Canadian dollars)
    1 $10,168
    2 $12,659
    3 $15,563
    4 $18,895
    5 $21,431
    6 $24,170
    7 or more $26,910


    I almost got married to a Canadian some years ago and didn't want to start a marriage by my husband singing as my 'sponsor' for 10 years (that's one of the conditions), even though it would have been the easier and faster way. Turned out he couldn't deal with my not being chained to him by sponsorship, so the entire thing wasn't necessary anymore :D I keep up with Canadian immigration law kind of as a hobby though (yes, I'm weird), so the idea of anyone just coming to Canada and riding the gravy train makes me laugh.

    Its not about foreigners riding the gravy train it is them receiving more money than those who have worked decades in this country who at the very least should see the same....since essentially it is their money in sense....thanks for all the info. from Immigration Canada very good to know :).
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Because the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

    We should fix the wheel.
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    We should fix the wheel.

    you know the wheels are currently made in china.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    MrBrian wrote:
    you know the wheels are currently made in china.

    lol.....good one :)
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    We should fix the wheel.

    Well, I often say the squeeky wheel gets replaced if the grease doesn't stop it from squeeking. But I think that applies more to employment than to society.

    Social progress is all about mass amounts of people throwing a tantrum in the street.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Sonja_S
    Sonja_S Vienna Posts: 444
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Its not about foreigners riding the gravy train it is them receiving more money than those who have worked decades in this country who at the very least should see the same....since essentially it is their money in sense....thanks for all the info. from Immigration Canada very good to know :).

    I know what you mean and I agree Canadians should at least get the same. I was only trying to point out that immigrants don't get anything - the money they have to bring is supposed to keep them above water for 6 months and if they can't find jobs within that timespan they basically have to get back to where they came from or starve. I also think that the support for refugees should only be for a certain amount a time or the wrong people will find a way to apply as a refugee.

    BTW, the situation is the same in Austria only that we don't have any immigration quota or proof of funds thing. Since Germany has been in a major crisis for years, we are now flooded with Germans who don't get unemployment benefits back home anymore.
    You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
    They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    I wonder if some here would care to argue how Native's still deserve to pay no taxes, can bud in front of any line to any college in Canada, monthly cheques, and the list goes on.

    Another HUGE Canadian item that burns me, equal country my ass.

    i agree with you. what happened in the past is history. we have developed and changed and we are not responsable for what others did before us.
    what i don't understand is why so many that support affirmative action in the us are now arguing against it's equivilant in canada.

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